THE END OF OLD AGE......L-carnosine

[deeznu]

Nice thread

[Whacked]

This has been MY comprehension as well

Anyone?

I did a quick check on a life extension forum about carnosine vs beta alanine. There was a lot of confusion on that forum as to what is best to use, and which one does what. My feeling is that beta alanine is a great sports supplement that buffers H+ ions and increases endurance, but carnosine is probably best for anti-glycation and life extension. There were two guys in their upper 60's who received excellent improvement from carnosine in the age related areas. They were both supplementing a gram per day.

[tWack]

This has been MY comprehension as well

Anyone?

I read about a study done on beta alanine supplementation and carnosine levels .. the carnosine levels in muscle rose by 40-80% if I remember correctly.. And Carnosine(as a supplement) would not get absorbed very efficiently..
I think this article references a number of studies on beta alanine supplementation and muscle carnosine concentrations: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ment_superstar

I'm guessing the cheapest way to raise your carnosine levels would be by supplementing with beta alanine.. But I'm not a professor, so please correct me if I'm wrong!!

[Whacked]

I gotta tell you, this counters the logic that's been discussed so far on this thread and supports the use of Carnosine vs Beta Alanine.....

http://www.betaalanine.info/

To understand how beta-alanine works to fight the drop in pH within our
muscle, you must first understand how carnosine works. The reason being is,
beta-alanine’s performance benefits are not direct but realized through its
ability to boost the synthesis of carnosine.

How much Beta-Alanine is
needed to cause performance increases?

Research has shown that you can
take an amount between 3.2 grams and 6.4 grams per day to significantly boost
carnosine levels and improve performance. The most recent research, now using
4-5 grams a day, is showing comparable carnosine concentration and performance
improvements to those using 6.4 g daily. Based off the current research, we
suggest 4 grams of beta-alanine a day, with an “optional” 2 week loading phase
of 6 grams a day during the first month of use.

How long will it take to
start noticing benefits?

Performance benefits typically occur in as
little as two weeks, although some individuals will notice benefits within one
week. As carnosine levels increase, the benefits will follow. The most dramatic
results are generally experienced within the 3-4 week range but they don’t stop
there. Recent research is now showing carnosine levels continue to increase for
a minimum of 12 weeks which is why we recommend staying on Beta-Alanine for at
least three months to optimize your carnosine levels.

[Whacked]

More on the subject: Carnosine seems to be vastly superior.

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21927

Influence of oral beta-alanine and L-Histidine supplementation on the carnosine
content of gluteus medius.

Excerpt from above abstract: "Changes in
muscle carnosine concentration appeared to be influenced by beta-alanine
bioavailability. Individual increases in muscle carnosine concentration were
significantly correlated with individual changes in beta-alanine..."


~vs~

High levels of dietary carnosine are associated with
increased concentrations of carnosine and histidine in rat soleus muscle.


Excerpt taken from above abstract: "After 8 wk, 1.8% carnosine resulted
in significant fivefold increases in carnosine and twofold increases in
histidine in the soleus muscle (P < or = 0.05). Muscle vitamin E
concentrations were not significantly affected by dietary carnosine. Thus, very
high levels of dietary carnosine are associated with increases in carnosine and
histidine concentrations in rat soleus muscle."



The carnosine
content of vastus lateralis is elevated in resistance-trained bodybuilders.


J Strength Cond Res. 2005 Nov;19(4):725-729

Tallon MJ, Harris
RC, Boobis LH, Fallowfield JL, Wise JA.

School of Sports, Exercise and
Health Sciences, University College Chichester, Chichester, West Sussex, United
Kingdom.

Tallon, M.J., R.C. Harris, L.H. Boobis, J.L. Fallowfield, and
J.A. Wise. The carnosine content of vastus lateralis is elevated in
resistance-trained bodybuilders. J. Strength Cond. Res. 19(4):725-729.
2005.-Resistance training is associated with periods of acute intracellular
hypoxia with increased H(+) production and low intramuscular pH. The aim of this
study was to investigate the possible adaptive response in muscle carnosine
(beta-alanyl-L-histidine) in bodybuilders. Extracts of biopsies of m. vastus
lateralis of 6 national-level competitive bodybuilders and 6 age-matched
untrained but moderately active healthy subjects were analyzed by
high-performance liquid chromatography. Significant differences were shown in
carnosine (p < 0.001) and histidine (p < 0.05). Muscle carnosine in
bodybuilders was twice that in controls. The carnosine contents measured are the
highest recorded in human muscle and represent a 20% contribution to muscle
buffering capacity. Taurine was 38% lower in bodybuilders, though the difference
was not significant. Possible causes for the changes observed are prolonged
repetitive exposure to low muscle pH, change of diet or dietary supplement use,
or the use of anabolic steroids. The increase in buffering capacity could
influence the ability to carry out intense muscular activity.


Some
recent research in respect to cyclists and beta-alanine supplementation.


Influence of beta-alanine supplementation on skeletal muscle carnosine
concentrations and high intensity cycling capacity.Hill CA, Harris RC, Kim HJ,
Harris BD, Sale C, Boobis LH, Kim CK, Wise JA.
School of Sports, Exercise
& Health Sciences, University of Chichester, Chichester, U.K..


Muscle carnosine synthesis is limited by the availability of
beta-alanine. Thirteen male subjects were supplemented with beta-alanine
(CarnoSyntrade mark) for 4 wks, 8 of these for 10 wks. A biopsy of the vastus
lateralis was obtained from 6 of the 8 at 0, 4 and 10 wks. Subjects undertook a
cycle capacity test to determine total work done (TWD) at 110% (CCT(110%)) of
their maximum power (W(max)). Twelve matched subjects received a placebo. Eleven
of these completed the CCT(110%) at 0 and 4 wks, and 8, 10 wks. Muscle biopsies
were obtained from 5 of the 8 and one additional subject. Muscle carnosine was
significantly increased by +58.8% and +80.1% after 4 and 10 wks beta-alanine
supplementation. Carnosine, initially 1.71 times higher in type IIa fibres,
increased equally in both type I and IIa fibres. No increase was seen in control
subjects. Taurine was unchanged by 10 wks of supplementation. 4 wks beta-alanine
supplementation resulted in a significant increase in TWD (+13.0%); with a
further +3.2% increase at 10 wks. TWD was unchanged at 4 and 10 wks in the
control subjects. The increase in TWD with supplementation followed the increase
in muscle carnosine

[Whacked]

Interesting............

In 2000 the researchers published the result of an animal study they had done in Biochemistry. They had given short-lived SAMP 1 mice supplements in their drinking water throughout their lives. One group was given a mixture of beta-alanine [structural formula above on the right] and histidine, and the other group got carnosine [structural formula below on the right]. The mice were given 100 mg/kg bodyweight of the mixture or of the carnosine.

Carnosine is a dipeptide with a whole range of interesting properties. In the muscles, it works as a buffer. The more carnosine there is in your muscles, the harder you can train and with better results. If you take beta-alanine, enzymes in your muscle cells attach a histidine molecule to it, and carnosine is formed. Humans have so much histidine in their body that taking extra histidine has no effect on carnosine synthesis as a result of beta-alanine supplementation. Carnosine used to be prohibitively expensive, which is why only beta-alanine supplements were available.

But carnosine has become cheaper and now it’s possible to buy beta-alanine supplements that also contain pure carnosine.

Carnosine not only has positive effects on muscle tissue. According to studies done in the nineties, carnosine 'rejuvenates' aging cells. It ups the rate of energy processes and makes cells more resilient to the formation of plaques as happens in atherosclerosis or Alzheimer's. In addition, carnosine inhibits the formation of undesirable protein-sugar compounds, and thus helps fight problems related to aging like eye
disease and wrinkle formation. [Biochemistry (Mosc). 2000 Jul; 65(7): 869-71.]

Well. Back to the British-Russian study. The researchers, who by the way around the same time announced that fruit flies live longer if given carnosine, discovered that mice live on average 20 percent longer if they are given carnosine in their drinking water [a]. A supplement containing a mix of beta-alanine and histidine [b] was less effective. The mice in the b-group hardly lived any longer than the mice in the control group [c].

The table above reveals that carnosine supplementation reduced the likelihood of visible signs of aging in the mice. "Carnosine acts as a true antioxidant protector rather than as an anabolic drug", the researchers write. How exactly the supplementation made the mice live longer, the researchers didn't study.

[Whacked]

For those of you that seek thorough confusion LOL

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic...s-l-carnosine/

[Whacked]

Gotta tell ya, Im swithing to Benfotiamine Powder (CHEAP, more effective at disrupting glycation formation), and I couldnt come across much controvery at all.

http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACentu...mins.html#1170

I started a thread on Glycation as well: Best supps for inhibiting Glycation

[tuberman]

For those of you that seek thorough confusion LOL

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic...s-l-carnosine/

Longecity is one of those forums where you have a lot of what I call "Scare tactic morons," and their main points are always scored by taking some Pubmed study out of context with some "toxic" possibility to perfectly good or even great supplements. The study will turn out to be done on some small animal that can't produce some critical Amino or the like that is depleted by said supplement. The study gives huge doses of something like Beta Alanine to cats that cannot produce Taurine, and since BA and Taurine are competitive to the same receptors, then Taurine gets depleted in the cats.


This is merely one example of something that happens constantly with hundreds of variants on Longecity. A contrary person will go out of their way to overlook literally dozen or hundreds of studies to find the one opposing study to get them the attention they so desire. A search for attention replaces the search for truth.

What do you think of Carnosine? The science is mixed between it and BA. I've seen 3-4 older people who say it is better than BA for health issues, and these go beyond just glycation.

[Whacked]

Currently, I share that position. Carnosine is an excellent anti-oxidant as well.

Also, considering the fact we are interested in the anti-glycation effects, I think it lends even more credence to Carnosine when LifeExtension Brite Eye III drops for cataracts are made from carnosine.

That said, I am still not 100% certain.

What do you think of Carnosine? The science is mixed between it and BA. I've seen 3-4 older people who say it is better than BA for health issues, and these go beyond just glycation.

[tuberman]

Currently, I share that position. Carnosine is an excellent anti-oxidant as well.

Also, considering the fact we are interested in the anti-glycation effects, I think it lends even more credence to Carnosine when LifeExtension Brite Eye III drops for cataracts are made from carnosine.

That said, I am still not 100% certain.

I took about 15 grams of carnosine and melted a 1/2 pound of coconut oil and mixed them in suspension. This made a very good antioxidant skin cream for a month for my face and arms. I just wanted to test the results, and my skin did improve. I didn't continue because beyond experimenting I don't care enough. I have not tested it orally as I still take BA, but I should as I've still got 85 grams of bulk left over.

[Whacked]

Your experience and anecdotal feedback are interesting but coconut oil has beneficial skin healing attributes on its own.

[tuberman]

Yes, and that is why I've never came back here and mentioned it. But I do think I will try 2 grams a day orally and drop the BA for a while. I just want to test it out for myself. I am interested in rejuvenation from many viewpoints.

[Whacked]

Would be very interested in hearing your results.

[jhferry]

I am also interested in those results.

[richincanada]

So, which should I get ? I am a 35 year old vegetarian interested in the effects on the brain, gym/muscle also, but secondary. Carnosine or Beta Alanine? I get around 100 grams protein daily from cottage cheese and whey protein/milk. Is that enough histadine ?

[Whacked]

If you eat a lot of carbs, I'd go with Bentofiamine, if not, Carnosine

Since you are looking for "protection" verses ergogenic effect, I'd choose Carnosine

There's also lipoic acid and several other items that are notable anti-glycation agents

[Whacked]

Best supps for inhibiting Glycation

[interview11]

THANKS for putting up this excellent summary.

David

[HokiePride]

Lucky,

I guess I have to cheat and make it my favorite Baker's Dozen. I have spentwith no exaggeration, thousands of hours over the last couple decades trying tounderstand Mother Nature/God's Gifts etc. As a result, this nature loving,ex-seminarian firmly believes that Big Pharma is Bad and only God is Good! Iknow I sound hokey to the youngsters today but c'est la vie! Enjoy!

Dutch’sDirty (Baker’s) Dozen of Vitamins

I take dozens of different things but the followinglist consists of the most important to me. They all have some impact on my physical performance in the gym as theyaffect in some way strength/energy/recovery/metabolism etc. Butthey all make the list because they exert tremendous influence on my health,immune system, brain, heart, eyesight, joints, memory. They do a great job against the greatestthreats we face.
1. Vitamin D3 15,000 IUs
2. Omega 3s 3 – 6 gms
3. Astaxanthin 10 mgs
4. Ubiquinol(CoQH) 100 mgs
5. Curcumin(Turmeric) 1 gm
6. Green Tea Extract 2-3 gms
7. Creatine 4 – 5 gms
8. Beta-Alanine(Carnosine) 4 – 5 gms
9. ALCAR 4 gms
10. ALA 600mgs
11. Coconut Oil 3 tbspns
12. Cissus 1.5 gms @ 10% or 2.5 gms @ 5%
13. Resveritrol (2 glasses of Cab or Merlot)

Awesome list and read. Thank you for this info.