1st Time TCyp--8 weeks in & FERTILITY concerns
03-10-2011 12:16 PM
1st Time TCyp--8 weeks in & FERTILITY concerns
My name is Charlie and I am 41 years old! I currently weight 290. I went to Dr. this past fall to have some bloodwork done, since I had not been for over 15 years. I had gained alot of weight over the last 2-3 years (40pounds), mainly around my stomach, and was concerned about diabetes/thyroid etc. Anyway, I was cleared of diabetes, however doc called me and said I had low Test levels and recommended Test injections- he said it would be good for losing belly fat and staying lean/gaining some muscle etc---sounded good! Here is my dliemma- my wife and I have been trying to conceive/get pregnant, and she has always had some hormone issues and challenges. I have always had great fertility/sperm lab results (3-4 tests). Bottom line is the general family doctor did not mention that this could shut me down or be harmful with fertility. I even asked him about this, and he said it is good for sperm motility and production. I rcvd my first shot in December 200mg of Tcyp. I returned in January and did not feel any difference after 3 weeks. So he then started doing weekly of 200mg ew for the last 7 weeks. I am concerned because I did not realize this could be an ongoing process (hence TRT), again doc never mentioned this. I was due for a shot this week on Tuesday and skipped it. I met with doc and asked questions about what was his plans, and he didnt have a clue in relationship to PCT or HCG/AI's etc. He just said he would taper me off!!! I asked to see an endo- going 2morror/Friday. Here is the deal I got a copy of my original labs from November (First & only lab), and my total test was 362 ng/dl ranfe of 280-800, and my Free Test (Direct): 8.3pg/ml range of 6.8-21.5. My free test seems low comparesd to Total. Any thoughts?? Also, should I consider taking some HCG for a few weeks to help out until I decide or get with ENDO?? Main concern is fertility & also getting my natural levels back to where they were!!!! I think through better diet, losing some weight, getting more sleep -terrrible sleep patterns/ and test boosters, loweering estrogen etc. that I will be ok in the 400-500 range! Anyone agree/ disagree?? I just dont wanna be on injections the rest of my life unless absolute necessary ya know! I would really appreciate some feedback and any ideas/ concerns! Lastly, what should I ask the endo on my appointment tomorrow??? Thanks
03-12-2011 12:23 AM
if your plan is to come off then yes id start some hcg. do not taper down the dosge. tell the endo what you are doing and tell him you want to come off all together. if he doesnt know anything and dont be surprised if he doesnt get some pct advice here on the boards.
after pct get some more bw and make sure e2 is in that test. considering you carry alot of belly fat its probable that you have some high e2.
362 is really not all that bad especially if your diet sucks and you dont exercise. changing those 2 and supplementing with the right stuff could easily get your levels up a bit. you dont want to rely on natural test boosters to get your levels to the numbers you are stating. besides they'll only boost for so long as the body WILL eventually return to homeostasis.
lastly Matrix will eventually see this and give you some real solid advice
03-12-2011 11:38 AM
Thanks for the reply bro!! Yeah i havent had a shot in almost 11 days, i skipped my weekly shot this past week--was due for it on Tuesday. I went to the endo yesterday and he was decent i suppose, atleast he knew that the injections have began shutting me down and he was concerned that i might not be fertile now!! His plan seemed to be to have me not take any drugs for 4-6 weeks and see how my body responds. He was very surprised that my family doc ordesred me to 200mg ew out of the gate for levels in the normal-low range of natty. Anyhow, i have some HCG, and still trying to decide if i should take atleast some low dosage--maybe 250-500 iu's 2-3 times a week for my nuts?? Ive read where taking hcg can further suppress your hpta if taken in high dosages, any knowledge anyoneabout whether taking HCG can be harmful. I stopped the shots of Test cypionate 11 days ago, and main concern is trying to keep my fertility/sperm levels bacxk to normal. Last few times ive hardly had any ejaculate/sperm and that why i went to specialist--worried about my testes!! lol
Also I did ask doc about having my estrogen checked on the labs and he blew that off, i even tried explaining that I felt I have many symptoms of high estogen levels/E dominancce some call this. I do think that this might of been a reason levels were low in the beginning -- before shots? I think I have been converting some of the Tcyp into estreogen because i havene felt any of the bossted energy/ life is great feelings from the shots, and 200mg ew is the high end of TRT dosage apparently, and only thing ive noticed really is increased strength. However, this couldve been due to the fact ive been lifting very hard and I had not lifted weights intensely like this in over 10 years. Moving forward--definitely off the shots cuz of fertility worries and we are in the last 12-18 months of trying to conceive. Anyone else have thpought on whether I should take HCG, since I have stopped my shots, and then try some serms for a PCT or maybwe just some good natural products (Unleashed/Bridge etc.) Any recommendations for a mild PCT that would also help with sperm counts/fertility???? Thanks
03-12-2011 08:32 PM
do not take hcg now, it will supress your lh which is not what you want to accomplish at this point. we'll call it your pct time even though it wasnt a real cycle. will your dr give you a script for clomid? thats what you would need to take. if you cant get clomid id highly advise going to primordial performance and ordering the test recovery stasck and have it shipped overnight and start it immediately.
im sending you a pm also
just a side note. you shouldnt have skippped the t shot without a proper "pct" in place. one more shot would have given you a good amount of time to get pct items together and it really wouldnt have mattered much at this point with that low a dose. live and learn bro. we'll get you settled though
03-12-2011 10:02 PM
I thought HCG mimics LH!! Am i wrong?? I also thought HCG would be good for me becuse I was told it could help trigger Testosterone & sperm production in my testes!! Im sort of confused because several others are telling me to take the HCG now, and then start a PCT in 2 weeks. If my LH is suppressed, why would taking HCG be no good for me exactly?? Side note-- I was scripted the test shots from a doc man, and thank god i decided to start researching and self educating, otherwise i would be trusting a doc who didnt have a clue ya know!! I didnt realize I was on a cycle. I can go in this week and get another shot if I want.
03-12-2011 10:20 PM
exactly hcg SIMULATES lh which means your body stops producing your own, does that make sense to you? hcg is used on cycle to keep your boys full/working, off cycle its just supressing your own lh.
since pct starts 2 weeks following last inj of t-cyp thats pretty much where you are, hence not the time to start using hcg. you should be concentrating on getting everything working and back to normal. clomid STIMULATES lh. thats what you want in pct. now understand there are trt therapies where people use hcg when they are secondary hypogonadal.
if it were me and again im not giving you advice and telling you what you should do. i myself would get the t shot and maybe even a second one and run hcg. not after your done with t. this way i would have time to get a proper pct in order then comes off do pct and go back for bw a few weeks after pct
03-13-2011 02:16 PM
I think im getting/understanding little better now. Lets make sure -- whats your saying is the Testcypionate shut me down or at a minimum suppressed my HPTA-- LH hormones, and since I stopped the shots 12 days ago, my body is probably starting to try an recup, however, if I start taking the HCG--you think it will just further suppress my LH, right?? Would taking the HCG further suppress the HPT axis also?? Here is the bottom line--I got ya on the proper way would be to take some shots+hcg for the next few weeks, and then cycle off and start PCT. But wont this further the time my sperm will be low or shut off?? What would be the quickest route for me to atleast get some sperm production back up or back to normal?? I guess maybe I shoult ry an get my hands on some good supps for PCT, and stick to the endos advice. Also, i could go have a sperm lab done 2morrow and see where im at there ASAP, and then make a decision. Because if my sperm level is OK, then the shots didnt fully shut me down ya know. What do u think?? I was hoping matrix would get back with me on some of these issues and respond to my labs i posted. Thanks Bulldog for your feedback!!!
Originally Posted by ambulldog
03-13-2011 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by Power33
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