48 & Epi?

[wannabbtr]

I'm new to this forum and looking for advice. I've been working out consistently for 6 yrs. I'm 48, 5'10", 155, bf 16%. I work out 4x a week. My diet is pretty clean. I've researched the heck out of PH's and my head spins from it. I want to put on some lean muscle so I decided to try a cycle of EPI because from what I've read it's one of the least harsh. I wont' lie, I'm nervous about it this will be my first cycle. Here's what I have planned:

cycle assist/cycle support 2 week preload through cycle and pct. I have one bottle of the cycle assist and one tub of the cycle support. Will start with the cycle assist and then take the cycle support.

CYCLE

Epi 30/30/30/30
shaklee multi
vitamin c 500mg
vitamin d - 1,000 mg
zinc - 15 mg
Flax Seed Oil - 1 gram
Omega 3 - 1 gram

PCT

above listed vitamins and supps
Erase
Recycle
Nolva 20/20/10/10

I can't decide if I need the Nolva or if it's overkill and will cause sides. I would really appreciate any advice especially for PCT. It seems no matter what forums I look into some people say SERMS a must others say OTC PCT is just fine. Would also like to know if I made a good choice for 1st cycle.

I also take crestor and dutasteride (trying to keep my hair..lol)

Thanks guys!

[waynaferd]

I'll just comment on the PCT since I'm sure more folk closer to your age will have better advice

Perfect!!

I always dose nolva at 20,20,10,10 since it is just a tad harsh and there's no proof double the dose is anymore effective.

On PH runs I always take cycle support and fish oil, milk thistle, and with "real" stuff I add in saw palmetto, but since you got both support -AND- assist I'd say your set!

If you get back pumps taurine and gatorade help....I went up to 50 with epi and didn't notice much more gain than staying at 40, but the back pumps and lethargy sucked bad. I went 5 weeks and was pretty impressed!

Split the dose but do higher dose in AM, so 30mg would be 20 AM, 10 PM....that's about all I can really think of ATM...good luck!!

[David Dunn]

I've been working out consistently for 6 yrs. I'm 48, 5'10", 155, bf 16%. I work out 4x a week. My diet is pretty clean.

If you've consistently trained for 6 years and have achieved 155lbs and 16%BF at 5'10" what will you be doing differently to allow you to put on weight?

Personally, if at your age, after 6 years of consistent training, you have not learned to eat well enough to be at least 190lbs I would not be taking hormones of any kind.

Although, I would consider going to a doctor and getting a full male hormone panel to see if you are presently testosterone deficient.

My point is that if you are unable to gain any more weight than 155lbs by now, the hormone use could set you back a great deal in your overall health.

I would get a baseline bloodwork and learn to eat better before considering hormones.

[wannabbtr]

wayneferd - thanks so much for the advice. i really appreciate it! i plan on getting the taurine before i start, probably won't be until January as i might be tempted to drink over the holidays...LOL. thanks again!

[wannabbtr]

david dunn - thanks for your advice. it is appreciated. i started out 6 years ago at a fat 182. i've eaten the way my trainer wanted until i couldn't eat any more (i started at 150 w/ her). i did gain a little more muscle but also gained some more fat. my body just seems to settle between 155 -160. i can't imagine being 190 on just diet alone - not saying it's impossible, just that i haven't experienced that kind of gain. perhaps i've done something wrong. i think part of it is genetics - i weighed 135 - 140 most of my life. my brother and i were always skinny boys.

thanks again - i've read many of your posts and can tell you have a lot of experience. i am going to go check w/ a doctor before i proceed. i was just trying to get everything lined up. i'm wise enough to realize i don't want to screw up my body. please let me know if you have any further advice and thanks again!

[dsade]

I don't see supplemental magnesium listed on your list. Magnesium, along with zinc, become even more critical as we age.

[wannabbtr]

dsade - thanks for you reply. i'm currently taking a cal, mag, zinc supp which i'm almost out of. i also take extra zinc. i was going to get a mag supp because i read the cal can interfere w/ zinc absorbing. how much mag do you suggest? i know it's in some of the pre and intra w/o supps i take.

thanks again.

[David Dunn]

There is always the propensity for us to settle at our genetic status quot. Unless you have eaten and trained to exceed that you certainly will not.

There is also the issue of andropause that most men are susceptible to at our age. If over the last 6 years beginning at 42 you have still not accrued much more lbm than you already have it is quite possible that this could be the culprit. Of course it may not be an issue at all. That is why I suggest you confirm your androgen status before undertaking the use of steroids.

Otherwise the use of OTC steroids could be one small step forward and one large step backward with regard to longevity and hormone balance as you age.

Best of luck!

[dsade]

dsade - thanks for you reply. i'm currently taking a cal, mag, zinc supp which i'm almost out of. i also take extra zinc. i was going to get a mag supp because i read the cal can interfere w/ zinc absorbing. how much mag do you suggest? i know it's in some of the pre and intra w/o supps i take.

thanks again.

Most Mag supplements use Magnesium Oxide, which has a very low absorption rate.

If taking this form, I would take at least a gram a day.

[EasyEJL]

i've eaten the way my trainer wanted until i couldn't eat any more (i started at 150 w/ her). i did gain a little more muscle but also gained some more fat. my body just seems to settle between 155 -160. i can't imagine being 190 on just diet alone - not saying it's impossible, just that i haven't experienced that kind of gain. perhaps i've done something wrong. i think part of it is genetics - i weighed 135 - 140 most of my life. my brother and i were always skinny boys.

Ok so heres the thing you aren't quite getting. If you naturally settle to 155ish, and your normal eating maintains you at 155, guess what even after you cycle steroids and get up to 175 you'll be at in a few months? 155. Even if you somehow manage to eat enough during the cycle to make significant mass gains during it, if you return to eating what maintains 155, you'll drift back to 155.

[wannabbtr]

david dunn - thanks for your further info. when i started training again at 42 i was 182, not sure how high bf was but much higher than now. i trained on my own until i got my weight down to 150. 3 years ago i started w/ a trainer who put me on a "work out diet" to lower bf an gain muscle. i definitely got my bg down and gained muscle. when i stopped w/ her my bf was 17 - 18% (same as now) and i weighed went up to 160. in the last year, my bf is now down to 16% and my weight stays between 155 - 158. i can tell my muscles are bigger. however, i don't seem to be able to gain any more muscle. i can do more cardio and get my bf down but i just don't seem to be able to add any more muscle. i seem to have hit a plateau. i thought perhaps a mild supp. like Epi would give me a little boost.

thanks again for your knowledge.

[wannabbtr]

easyejl - thanks for your info. i have changed my diet in the last couple of weeks and started eating an extra meal every day, plus adding in more protein, ie eggs an meat. so far, i've only added 1 lb. what does one do if they feel like they can't eat anymore. i could eat one more meal later in the day, i try to have my last meal at 6:30 and my last protein w/ pb and some fruit at 7:30 - 8:00. i go to bed at 10 - 10:30 so i'm afraid to eat any later, my doc says it's not good for the cholesterol.

[EasyEJL]

Well, the thing to do then is to start looking at caloric density of what you are eating, and make changes to make it all work out better. For a super simple example, 2 tablespoons of peanut butter have around 180 calories, 2 tablespoons of brown rice has maybe 30. Same with plenty of other choices you make mealwise. 8oz of chicken breast or fish has less calories than 8oz of ground beef. Probably be easier to make more specific suggestions if you gave a sample day's diet

[dsade]

easyejl - thanks for your info. i have changed my diet in the last couple of weeks and started eating an extra meal every day, plus adding in more protein, ie eggs an meat. so far, i've only added 1 lb. what does one do if they feel like they can't eat anymore. i could eat one more meal later in the day, i try to have my last meal at 6:30 and my last protein w/ pb and some fruit at 7:30 - 8:00. i go to bed at 10 - 10:30 so i'm afraid to eat any later, my doc says it's not good for the cholesterol.

Your doc sounds like an idiot.

Get yourself a casein protein or blend (Ultra Peptide 2.0 is great at bedtime) and drink it before bed.

[wannabbtr]

Your doc sounds like an idiot.

Get yourself a casein protein or blend (Ultra Peptide 2.0 is great at bedtime) and drink it before bed.

He doesn't have a problem w/ a protein drink. He doesn't want me to eat a meal 2 to 3 hours before I go to bed. I try the Ultra Peptide 2.0 - thanks for the idea.

[dsade]

He doesn't have a problem w/ a protein drink. He doesn't want me to eat a meal 2 to 3 hours before I go to bed. I try the Ultra Peptide 2.0 - thanks for the idea.

I understand that....but his reasoning is ridiculous. By all means carb restrict before bed...but you're looking at what...14-16 hours with an empty stomach?

[wannabbtr]

Well, the thing to do then is to start looking at caloric density of what you are eating, and make changes to make it all work out better. For a super simple example, 2 tablespoons of peanut butter have around 180 calories, 2 tablespoons of brown rice has maybe 30. Same with plenty of other choices you make mealwise. 8oz of chicken breast or fish has less calories than 8oz of ground beef. Probably be easier to make more specific suggestions if you gave a sample day's diet

Hey thanks for the suggestions - I actually just started adding 1 tbs of PB to my protein shakes and started having beef at lunch more frequently instead of chicken or turkey and also started having more at dinner. I'm not a big fish eater.

Here a normal day for me in the last 1 -2 weeks:

First thing upon waking a protein shake. Then 3 cups of coffee w/ 1 tsp. sugar and milk.

Breakfast: 1 cup of high fiber cereal w/ milk or bowl of oatmeal w/ a little maple syrup. 1/4 cup egg whites w/ 2 eggs or just 4 eggs scrambled.

workout

post workout - glass of chocolate milk, greek yogurt w/ fruit.

25 - 30 mins. later - turkey,ham or tuna on whole wheat w/ slice of cheese and a piece of fruit. 3-4 days a week 1/2 chicken breast or 4 ozs hamburger patty w/ serving of green vegetable and about 1/4 cup quinoa.

30 mins later - protein and PB shake and 2 ozs of walnuts and almonds

2 - 3 hours later - dinner

Chicken or beef or pork chop w/ green vegetable and quinoa or brown rice.

8:00pm protein shake w/ PB sometimes more walnuts and almonds.

Thanks so much for your help w/ this. I really appreciate it! I've tried to use the diet tracker on here but it's not working.

[wannabbtr]

I understand that....but his reasoning is ridiculous. By all means carb restrict before bed...but you're looking at what...14-16 hours with an empty stomach?

I think I agree w/ you, I should just restrict carbs. I've been having my last shake at 8:00. I'm usually up at 8:00 so yeah like 12-13 hours empty stomach.

You guys on here are great. I really appreciate all your help. I've tried a couple of other sites, they weren't very helpful.

[EasyEJL]

the easy and pleasant to add things I see would be adding some walnut or almond pieces to the morning cereal/oatmeal, and adding a tablespoon of olive oil to the quinoa before eating it.

The other possibility is to start just slowly increasing portion sizes at each meal, add 1 extra egg, move up to a 1/3 lb burger patty, 1/2 cup of quinoa, etc. (not all the same day)

[wannabbtr]

the easy and pleasant to add things I see would be adding some walnut or almond pieces to the morning cereal/oatmeal, and adding a tablespoon of olive oil to the quinoa before eating it.

The other possibility is to start just slowly increasing portion sizes at each meal, add 1 extra egg, move up to a 1/3 lb burger patty, 1/2 cup of quinoa, etc. (not all the same day)

I'll try those ideas! There easy to do. The larger portions is where I'll have trouble but I'll see what I can do. I'm not eating quite as much as I was w/ my trainer, I just remember always feeling like I couldn't eat any more. She sounded like someone's grandmother - "you need to eat!" LOL

Thanks again, you guys on here are great!