Give the old man (me) a reality check please.

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    Give the old man (me) a reality check please.


    I will try to not be so long winded.

    I am new to this. I have been doing serious cardio for about 10 / 11 months and lost about 30 pounds (putting me at approx 170). I started adding lifting seriously about 5 months ago. I put in about 45 - 1 hour in the basement (PowerTech home gym and DB's) 4 - 5 nights a week. I eat pretty darn clean and put on about 15 pounds in the past 3 months. Certainly not all muscle. I would be thrilled if 5 of it was new muscle!

    I am now shedding the unwanted weight by increasing cardio, lowering caloric intake, and timing carbs better pre-work out and then minimal afterwards. the new USPlabs OEP is in the mix (love it) as is fish oil, Myofusion, and the last of my PowerFULL.

    Once I get back down to say 170-165 I will add calories and begin a lean gain. I hated the "bulk" (read fat) that I put on this last go around! Slower gains but remaining lean are fine quick gains and lean would be finer!!!

    What is "recommended" for the over 40 crowd? I do NOT want to go all crazy on Supps. I have my Myofusion, Jack3d, fish oil and a good multi.

    Probably cutting out the PowerFULL as I do not feel as though I reacted to it very well. Certainly not enough to justify the price. I love the concept, just got nothing from it. Might add a ZMA instead, for the sleep - recovery.

    I will once again add Creatine mono rather than a blend. Got nothing from Size ON, and the Cell Tech I got a deal on has way too much sugar.. Unflavored mono in a post workout shake will be fine (unless you have other ideas).

    I have also considered Gaspari's Novadex XT but am concerned about some of the negatives I have heard that come with the positives.

    What is a 41 year old to do, in addition to eating very well and busting butt in the gym? I realize this is not an overnight thing. Just looking for a bit of instant gratification along this long road and lifestyle change.

    Thanks all!

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    Powerfull did nothing for me as well. Are you working out at a gym now, maybe you need to refine your routine first. Also make sure your diet is spot on and figure out exactly how many calories you are eating and need to eat. The celltech has the sugar for an insulin spike which would be nice postworkout, but I think there is too much and the price is insane. With the creatine mono postworkout you can use gatorade powder for the insulin spike, but not as many g's of sugar as celltech of course.
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    I would stay away from Novadex or any other hormonal if you want to stay as natural as possible. You can do lots by refining your diet, nutrient timing and training methods. This board has a lot to offer in the diet and training sections of the forum even though it would appear we are obsessed with supplements.
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    I'd say start with your physical exam, to see where you at health wise. Replace sodas in your diet with water. Alternate your lifting routine I.e high rep / light weight, low rep / heavy weight. As far as supplements go, I'd look into Primordial Performance products, sustain alpha, phyto testosterone. They seem to work according to people that tried them. Good luck!
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    Have not had a soda in ages. The diet side of things is pretty good actually. Getting between 180 and 200 grams of protein a day (vast majority from whole foods), 20 - 30 grams of good fats in fishoil and olive oil, 70 - 80 grams of complex carbs pre workout (next to none post). Right around 2000 calories for a good clean fat burn. I get between a gallon and a gallon and a half of water in each day and plenty of good fruit / veggies. THIS IS A WEIGHT CUT PHASE OF COARSE...

    I have a good clean bill of health from the doc. Blood work / blood preasure / general health are all pretty good and only getting better...

    Mixing up the work out a bit more is a good suggestion and will be acted upon. I have lifted pretty heavy and should probably scale back for a week or two of high rep / high set to shake things up.

    My wife says I look great but I look in the miror and see a body that made a lot of progress and then stalled!!!
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    Do you have a stressful life? Sounds like you're doing everything else just fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMARTIN View Post
    What is a 41 year old to do, in addition to eating very well and busting butt in the gym? I realize this is not an overnight thing. Just looking for a bit of instant gratification along this long road and lifestyle change.

    Thanks all!
    Please don't shoot the messenger but there is no instant gratification in this game.

    So no there is no a lot else to do besides optimizing your diet and training smart and, often forgotten, being patient. IMO diet and training are 99% of the equation - yes I think supplements are that irrelevant when the former are in check.

    One thing that might help you out is to remember that apart from newbie gains, the body really cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time, hence the are bulking and cutting diets. However, you do not have to be on one or the other for months on end. Maybe try calorie cycling such as eating bulking cals for the 24hrs after weight training and cutting cals for the 24 hrs after cardio days... This makes gains more gradual (easier on the joints and the wardrobe) and not having to go hungry for more than a couple days at a time is also a bonus.

    Just a suggestion...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    Do you have a stressful life? Sounds like you're doing everything else just fine.
    Wife, four kids, and a bonehead dog in this economy... It can be trying. LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Please don't shoot the messenger but there is no instant gratification in this game.

    So no there is no a lot else to do besides optimizing your diet and training smart and, often forgotten, being patient. IMO diet and training are 99% of the equation - yes I think supplements are that irrelevant when the former are in check.

    One thing that might help you out is to remember that apart from newbie gains, the body really cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time, hence the are bulking and cutting diets. However, you do not have to be on one or the other for months on end. Maybe try calorie cycling such as eating bulking cals for the 24hrs after weight training and cutting cals for the 24 hrs after cardio days... This makes gains more gradual (easier on the joints and the wardrobe) and not having to go hungry for more than a couple days at a time is also a bonus.

    Just a suggestion...
    Thanks Nitrox. I think one of the items that NEEDS to be put into my bag of tricks is more SLEEP!!!!.. You bring up valid points and I thank you. I am doing some cutting right now and it is coming along nicely. Next will be a leaner bulk for those gradual gains, but gains....

    I have been getting less than 5 hours of sleep a night and that will change starting tonight. Trying to hit the sack closer to 9:00 rather than 11ish. Rise for AM cardio / shower / commute is at 4:15 AM... Need the sleep. I am sure that will help with the afore mentioned stress as well.
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    man, you are doing great. balancing the gym, a full time job, and a family, all while staying motivated and improving your quality of life, health,- my hat goes off to you. sounds like you are right on track. definitely think the added sleep will be a big help with muscle growth/repair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    I would stay away from Novadex or any other hormonal if you want to stay as natural as possible.
    I love this comment. When I think of nutritional supplements, I think of things that refill the nutrients we lose during training. After that Ill give a pass to herbal stimulants. Athough their not neccasarily nutritional, they are still natural supplements. If you really whant to call your self natural, do the research before trying things like Novadex/formestane, as many of these compounds were created by people in a lab.


    You should also know that AI's cun be hard on the joints. Stoked made me ache, and I'm only 24, but I'm also a muscular beast.
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    ZMA when you have to work out the next morning and 3 mg melatonin when you just have to roll out of bed and go to work. Both are very cheap as well. Sounds like aside from sleep your doing great. Keep it up.
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    gonna play devil's advocate here...
    have you given any consideration to hormone replacement therapy? my dad (who's only exercise is a round of golf on sundays) recently got a script for andro-gel and in just a few weeks gained some healthy weight and has tons more energy. after a certain age men start to loose test naturally. i know you want to stay completely natty, but give it some thought. talk to your doc and see what he/she thinks. i was amazed at the improvement in my pop's quality of life. you, as active as you are, could really see some benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsmash4food View Post
    gonna play devil's advocate here...
    have you given any consideration to hormone replacement therapy? my dad (who's only exercise is a round of golf on sundays) recently got a script for andro-gel and in just a few weeks gained some healthy weight and has tons more energy. after a certain age men start to loose test naturally. i know you want to stay completely natty, but give it some thought. talk to your doc and see what he/she thinks. i was amazed at the improvement in my pop's quality of life. you, as active as you are, could really see some benefits.
    Where did he say he was hypogonadal? I am 53, I don't need TRT, and it would be quite stupid to take Androgel when your HPTA is working. Your dad must have been or the doctor that prescribed it is an idiot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    Where did he say he was hypogonadal? I am 53, I don't need TRT, and it would be quite stupid to take Androgel when your HPTA is working. Your dad must have been or the doctor that prescribed it is an idiot.
    I'm on board with that, exercise and clean diet and the battle is more than half won. Diet is first, once you've conquered that supplements can help if used intelligently. I use a lot of herbal supplements, but I have been doing this a awful long time and have really gotten to know what my body responds to, but I am still learning and always will be.
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    I dont know if you have looked into App Nut's HGHup, but I have read great reviews and I myself am on it. One great aspect of it that I see is the sleep i get from it. I take 2 pre workout and 3 before bed and i can get 6 hours of sleep and wake up like the energizer bunny. it gives me a better quality of sleep each night. good luck
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    Thanks again all... Great info!

    My wife heard me talking about the Novedex XT and found it on sale/bought a few bottles on a great deal. SURPRISE to me!!!

    Is this not a good idea or out of the realm of "natty"?

    The current "cut" diet with the Oxy Elite pro and Recreate is going very well. Looking forward to LEAN and then packing on more quality pounds.

    Thanks again all!!!!
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    I personally like Novedex XT the best out of the AI's I have tried, and I consider it to be natural (although it is made in a lab). I use supplements that are legal, but natural can have different meanings to different people. I believe that older guys derive benefits from using an AI and a natural test booster. I would try the Novedex XT at the recommended dosage (2 caps before bed).
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    i have always heard that nova doesnt actually increase test, but lowers estrogen to make it seem like you have a higher ratio. im not saying i believe this, i havent done research, but ya. i would love to see some bloodwork on nova to see what it really does
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    Where did he say he was hypogonadal? I am 53, I don't need TRT, and it would be quite stupid to take Androgel when your HPTA is working. Your dad must have been or the doctor that prescribed it is an idiot.
    nice comment...****. almost every male looses t levels as they age. the vast majority in fact. just because you dont agree with a post, thats no reason to call my father an idiot. it worked wonders for him. and he didnt say that he wasnt hypogonadal either. it was just an idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    I dont know if you have looked into App Nut's HGHup, but I have read great reviews and I myself am on it. One great aspect of it that I see is the sleep i get from it. I take 2 pre workout and 3 before bed and i can get 6 hours of sleep and wake up like the energizer bunny. it gives me a better quality of sleep each night. good luck
    From what I hear Ghenerate is just as good and it can be stacked with things like Powerfull. Plus Ghenerate is a much, much, better deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsmash4food View Post
    nice comment...****. almost every male looses t levels as they age. the vast majority in fact. just because you dont agree with a post, thats no reason to call my father an idiot. it worked wonders for him. and he didnt say that he wasnt hypogonadal either. it was just an idea.
    I called the doctor an idiot, not your father.
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    Even by AI standards, Novadex XT gets mixed reviews. Some people even get side effects associated with having MORE estrogen. It was loseing popularity quickly until some other AI's got banned.
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    Yes, I am doing a LOT of reading on the subject and am tempted to take the Novedex back and either tackle it with diet / creatine / zma / multi alone or try another one all together. I wish there was a clear cut "winner" in this arena but I have not found it. My largest issue is that I have been a non-respondor to a few things that folks RAVE about. I do not want to sink more money into an experiment is finding a new way of simply losing money... Looking into the Ghenerate recommendation now.

    Very very confused at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMARTIN View Post
    Yes, I am doing a LOT of reading on the subject and am tempted to take the Novedex back and either tackle it with diet / creatine / zma / multi alone or try another one all together. I wish there was a clear cut "winner" in this arena but I have not found it. My largest issue is that I have been a non-respondor to a few things that folks RAVE about. I do not want to sink more money into an experiment is finding a new way of simply losing money... Looking into the Ghenerate recommendation now.

    Very very confused at the moment.
    Don't forget your fish oils. What have you not responded to? I do believe a lot of people on these threads advertise certain brands. Remember when everyone said Glycobol was the go-to supplement. A few months later, their done talking about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    Don't forget your fish oils. What have you not responded to? I do believe a lot of people on these threads advertise certain brands. Remember when everyone said Glycobol was the go-to supplement. A few months later, their done talking about it.
    I forgot to mention that I am taking fishoil as well... Yes, it is a main stay at this point.

    Gaspari SizeON did NOTHING for me but taste great durring a work out. To be fair I bleed MyoFusion though!!!!

    USPLabs PowerFULL was a big no show for ME. I am so jealous of those it worked(s) for! Again, to be fair, I have been having GREAT results with OEP and Recreate in my fat cut. Down 5 pounds and leaner than I have been in YEARS this week alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMARTIN View Post
    I forgot to mention that I am taking fishoil as well... Yes, it is a main stay at this point.

    Gaspari SizeON did NOTHING for me but taste great durring a work out. To be fair I bleed MyoFusion though!!!!

    USPLabs PowerFULL was a big no show for ME. I am so jealous of those it worked(s) for! Again, to be fair, I have been having GREAT results with OEP and Recreate in my fat cut. Down 5 pounds and leaner than I have been in YEARS this week alone.
    Yah that's a killer combo...
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    I like MyoFusion too. On the Novedex XT, I only used one bottle according to the directions. I felt like it did the job to me, but I certainly haven't used it enough (or similar products) to say that it's the best. I just keep trying different things to see what works for me. I also like MHP's Dark Matter right after my workouts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEPSE View Post
    I like MyoFusion too. On the Novedex XT, I only used one bottle according to the directions. I felt like it did the job to me, but I certainly haven't used it enough (or similar products) to say that it's the best. I just keep trying different things to see what works for me. I also like MHP's Dark Matter right after my workouts.
    Myofusion is very nice tasting and has a good profile, I always have some on hand.
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    Why would being on therapy ( HRT ) require you or your doctor to be an idiot ? Could you expand on the reasoning behind the judgement ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bengelha View Post
    Why would being on therapy ( HRT ) require you or your doctor to be an idiot ? Could you expand on the reasoning behind the judgement ?
    Because nowhere was it shown he NEEDED it, as in blood work and there was no evidence of being hypogonadal.

    I stated the doctor would be an idiot to place him on HRT / TRT when his HPTA was working. HRT is for life, it's not like doing a cycle of prohormones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bengelha View Post
    Why would being on therapy ( HRT ) require you or your doctor to be an idiot ? Could you expand on the reasoning behind the judgement ?
    I think the point that he was making was that going on HRT when hormone levels are normal just to get jacked is a poor choice healthwise.
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    Still up in the air about Novedex... Looking at the Natadrol deal as well. Not sure, not sure....

    Diet is going GREAT and the Oxy / Recreate being in the mix is soooo very nice!
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    Well I am reading up on use vs abuse, I think it was pretty clear that I needed it, zero sex drive, no ability to gain strength and then I was tested in the 200's. So what I did was basically start a cycle at 46 and begin questioning why I was going to go off. Now I have to take a hard look at everything because I am scripted for more than HRT, 300mg test per week is too much I guess. But is there anything wrong with kicking HRT off with a solid jump start ?

    Sorry to hijack the thread with my own questions.
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    I also find many people with UC like me take immunossuppressive drugs and may get cancer as a result.

    I will not take those.

    Testosterone is known to moderate the immune system killer T-cells the very thing which attacks our gut in UC.

    So it would seem I have 2 reasons for Test therapy, HRT, and Keeping me out of the hospital and off prednisone.

    I could be just rationalizing my recent choice but I think not.
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    Bengelha, no idea how to help... Sorry.....


    On a completely unrelated note I screwed up my shoulder AGAIN!!!! I have also lost the reciept to the Novadex so can't return it... Looks like I will be giving it at least one run if not two. That will start in about a month or so after this cut. It is my first real cut and I have to say the weight is coming off with a high protein / lowish carb intake but cycling off the creatine at the same time has me shrinking and depressed. All of those gains (not that there was that much) gone!!! Already lost 1/2 inch in the biceps. NOT LIKING THAT AT ALL!!!! Abs showing through for the first time in probably 25 years though.

    I will have a better base to build upon this next "bulk"!!!!

    Thanks for all of the advice / support!
  37. Advanced Member
    EMARTIN's Avatar
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    Well after reading all the reviews I decided to return the Novedex XT.

    The current state of me is:

    I have changed my current short term diet goals for my body. I am doing a full on cut with OEP and ReCreate and shedding quite a bit of the body fat. I had a weight number in mind for this cut and moved away from that towards a “look” mentality. Once I am as lean as I want to be I will start altering my diet and reintroduce some of the supplements like creatine that I am off of right now. I have lost muscle mass (if you want to call what I worked hard for mass) in the cut and that is being accepted (but barely).

    I am doing the low carb meal plan that came with the OEP and it, along with the USPLabs stack of OEP / ReCreate, is doing what it promised!!!!!

    My question is what next:

    What should I be doing after the “cut”? My goal is to start building muscle again and keeping the bf% way down. I realize this will be a slowish process in the lean mass gains but I want to maintain the low bf. To make sure everyone is on the same page before chiming in, I have no illusions of hitting a stage / comp. I will not be aspiring to being a 250 pound monster. 185 lean and solid at 5’ 10” would be awesome in my mind!

    How does one go about that? I realize that I need to up calories slowly from deficit to maintenance to determine exactly where that is. I am betting that it will be about 2300 – 2400 calories in the beginning. Do I maintain the same meal plan but add more calories till I hit “surplus” and start putting the weight back on slowly? Do I simply add a post work out shake with the creatine to get the additional calories and then eat the same high protein low carb dinner a bit later? How much weight gain is about right for a “recomp” diet on a weekly / monthly basis?

    I do NOT want to add the fat back in any amount of excess, though I am sure it would be easier to simply “bulk and cut again later”. I suppose I am open to a slow bulk and then migrate to recomp if that is more advantageous…

    Supplements (used beyond a solid / quality whole food diet) once out of calorie deficit will be
    Protein from MyoFusion shakes
    Creatine
    Multi’s
    Fish Oil
    ZMA’s in the evening
    Quite possibly keeping ReCreate in the mix

    Part of me wants to try the LG Science Natadrol / T911 cycle but I do not know enough about that side of supplements to diet right to get the gains without the crap to cut later. I am trying to educate myself but there is SO MUCH TO LEARN!!!
  38. New Member
    b9cist's Avatar
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    your supps look good. A clean diet with addnl protein & a multivitamin is the foundation for growth. I'm 37 this year, so I'm right there with you. What I'd recommend you try is a good test booster, something like activate xtreme or stoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMARTIN View Post
    I will try to not be so long winded.

    I am new to this. I have been doing serious cardio for about 10 / 11 months and lost about 30 pounds (putting me at approx 170). I started adding lifting seriously about 5 months ago. I put in about 45 - 1 hour in the basement (PowerTech home gym and DB's) 4 - 5 nights a week. I eat pretty darn clean and put on about 15 pounds in the past 3 months. Certainly not all muscle. I would be thrilled if 5 of it was new muscle!

    I am now shedding the unwanted weight by increasing cardio, lowering caloric intake, and timing carbs better pre-work out and then minimal afterwards. the new USPlabs OEP is in the mix (love it) as is fish oil, Myofusion, and the last of my PowerFULL.

    Once I get back down to say 170-165 I will add calories and begin a lean gain. I hated the "bulk" (read fat) that I put on this last go around! Slower gains but remaining lean are fine quick gains and lean would be finer!!!

    What is "recommended" for the over 40 crowd? I do NOT want to go all crazy on Supps. I have my Myofusion, Jack3d, fish oil and a good multi.

    Probably cutting out the PowerFULL as I do not feel as though I reacted to it very well. Certainly not enough to justify the price. I love the concept, just got nothing from it. Might add a ZMA instead, for the sleep - recovery.

    I will once again add Creatine mono rather than a blend. Got nothing from Size ON, and the Cell Tech I got a deal on has way too much sugar.. Unflavored mono in a post workout shake will be fine (unless you have other ideas).

    I have also considered Gaspari's Novadex XT but am concerned about some of the negatives I have heard that come with the positives.

    What is a 41 year old to do, in addition to eating very well and busting butt in the gym? I realize this is not an overnight thing. Just looking for a bit of instant gratification along this long road and lifestyle change.

    Thanks all!
  39. New Member
    Philec48's Avatar
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    If you want to do a lean bulk up, with all things being equal, you'll need to cut out some of the cardio. Do enough to maintain good heart health, but don't train like you're planning to run a marathon. :-)

    Reason is, your muscles need plenty of protein and good carbs to grow. Cardio competes for those resources as well. Also, recovery time is very important between weight training sessions. Recovery time means REST, not cardio. Too much exercise will up your cortisol, and if you keep it high that puts you in a catabolic state, and you want an anabolic state.

    Don't depend on cardio too much for weight loss. Modulate caloric intake instead. Several small meals per day will keep your metabolism fired up, as well as the strength training will. As your muscles grow, they will demand the calories that would otherwise go to growing your fat. Hence, smart fat loss. Consider 1 gram per lb of body weight as the amount of protein to consume daily.

    Add in both acetyl-L-carnitine and L-carnitine to help burn off the fat.

    Mix up your reps/sets. Don't just do the same number of reps and sets, thinking you'll grow just by adding extra weight from time to time. For example on your bench day, if you do 6 reps/3 sets, the next bench day, do 8 reps/2 sets, the next bench day, do 12 reps/1 set, then next, do 4 reps/5 sets. Then randomly skip your bench day altogether to give those muscles an extra rest. On random lifting days, just do serious isometrics. All this will keep your muscles from easily adapting, and they will respond by growing.
  40. Advanced Member
    EMARTIN's Avatar
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    I am trying to work up the "go" for a 5K with the wife and my oldest daughter in a few months so cardio is part of the mix, for right now... It will slow down after that goal is accomplished.

    I am trying to decide between a lean bulk / recomp or to simply "bulk" smarter this go around. I have looked into the possibility of the LG Science TriFecta stack for a run at it or the "Swole Stack" from AI... Both look strong. My qustion is can I run one of those and do it justice on slightly above maint. calories or is that more of a BULK deal for a month or so and then move to recomp diet / work out?

    I have about 70.00 in Amazon dollars and figure I can donate it to my body. I have lost an amazing amount of streangth on the cut especially with the messed up shoulder. SO BUMMED!!!
  

  
 

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