WOW! Look at this guy 55yrs young

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    Thanks Dutch and DW. I don't want to mix my own, so I will look into CEL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    CEL have a very strong product and yes the raw from NP is good also just a pain to mix.
    speaking of formestane: have you seen or heard about the liqua vida delivery from pp? i would love to get my hands on some of that carrier and see what 3 gms of form would be like. allegedly it is 3x more bioavailable than their topical- i know we have heard this before, but possibly this may be the real deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    speaking of formestane: have you seen or heard about the liqua vida delivery from pp? i would love to get my hands on some of that carrier and see what 3 gms of form would be like. allegedly it is 3x more bioavailable than their topical- i know we have heard this before, but possibly this may be the real deal.
    Ya, I'm really not interested in the ingredients in the product, but I sort of wish they would sell the carrier for a reasonable price(20$). I'm intrested in the resV with a delivery system, but I really don't whant the other test boosting ingredient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    Ya, I'm really not interested in the ingredients in the product, but I sort of wish they would sell the carrier for a reasonable price(20$). I'm intrested in the resV with a delivery system, but I really don't whant the other test boosting ingredient.
    i was thinking formestane and 1 carboxy are 2 ingredients that would really benefit from this oral delivery- if it is as good as advertised. 3x better than topical-that is a pretty bold claim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    speaking of formestane: have you seen or heard about the liqua vida delivery from pp? i would love to get my hands on some of that carrier and see what 3 gms of form would be like. allegedly it is 3x more bioavailable than their topical- i know we have heard this before, but possibly this may be the real deal.
    Yah I read that, was pretty skeptical. Such things are beyond my knowledge. If somebody uses it and get's amazing results then maybe. It would be a worthwhile experiment.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yah I read that, was pretty skeptical. Such things are beyond my knowledge. If somebody uses it and get's amazing results then maybe. It would be a worthwhile experiment.
    damn, right. i have no problem using td formestane, because i know it works. but the 3x better has me very interested. the convenience of oral delivery is icing, it is the 3x better results that got my attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    damn, right. i have no problem using td formestane, because i know it works. but the 3x better has me very interested. the convenience of oral delivery is icing, it is the 3x better results that got my attention.
    Man 1 order of Form. from NP and it would last me forever the way I use it. It sure would make it cheap. Now it's a matter of how much carrier can hold how much formestane. Fug you could to beaking it with an eye dropper ..
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    I just ordered CEL Formestane. What dosing protocol would you suggest?

    Does anyone take this while on a Epi / PP cycle or bridge into PCT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    I just ordered CEL Formestane. What dosing protocol would you suggest?

    Does anyone take this while on a Epi / PP cycle or bridge into PCT?
    I run it as a staple so I use 3 days a week 50 mg(2 squirts) in the am and the same pm. This way I never really seem to build up resistance to it. If you want to get the full benefit it needs to be cycled and tapered. I forget the dosing but it varies from person to person. I'm in it for the long haul.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    I just ordered CEL Formestane. What dosing protocol would you suggest?

    Does anyone take this while on a Epi / PP cycle or bridge into PCT?
    you need to pm the dutchman- look at a few posts above, dutch runs epi/form a lot. i am sure he could help you out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    I run it as a staple so I use 3 days a week 50 mg(2 squirts) in the am and the same pm. This way I never really seem to build up resistance to it. If you want to get the full benefit it needs to be cycled and tapered. I forget the dosing but it varies from person to person. I'm in it for the long haul.
    I am much smaller than you, so your dosing requirements would be higher, I suppose.

    With a half-life of ~ 12 hours, that makes sense. I recall reading that the effects last up to 48 hrs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    I am much smaller than you, so your dosing requirements would be higher, I suppose.

    With a half-life of ~ 12 hours, that makes sense. I recall reading that the effects last up to 48 hrs.
    A lot of times sensitivity will be the key not size... I seem to be fairly sensitive to it. That's a very low dose.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    A lot of times sensitivity will be the key not size... I seem to be fairly sensitive to it. That's a very low dose.
    i can't seem to keep my dose that low, i have to cycle formestane because i love the effect of 4 pumps 2xday.
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    For best results:

    Ya, apply it where skin is thin and where it's easily absorbed, and cycle areas to apply it. Obviously, make sure application area is freshly cleaned and dry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuberman View Post
    For best results:

    Ya, apply it where skin is thin and where it's easily absorbed, and cycle areas to apply it. Obviously, make sure application area is freshly cleaned and dry.
    then stand in front of fan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    then stand in front of fan.


    Yep, lol, I forgot the most important part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i can't seem to keep my dose that low, i have to cycle formestane because i love the effect of 4 pumps 2xday.
    I know what you mean it's hard at first not to do higher dose. The thing is if I want constant Estrogen control I have to bite the bullet. It seems to be all I need over the long haul. I was surpised out how I never seemed to get more resistant. Another thing I do is take a week off every couple of months, just in case.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Mac, the Form thread contains more info than I can even remember. I have settled into my own system which works for this 68 yr old who is 5'11", 218. I take my 200 mgs of DHEA at night with my ZMA. After a morning shower I use 4 squirts of Form, every day. However when I use Epi I go all out and work up from 30 mgs to 50 mgs which I take 3 tabs in the AM and 2 at night. I also go from 1 X ED with the Form to 2 X ED as well. For my time off I still use my own preference which is some men's all-natural bio-identical Progesterone cream which does a good job on my E. I continue my DHEA/ZMA throughout all of this. Hope this helps for perspective.
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    Thanks for the info Dutch. Curious as to why you take your DHEA at night. I take 100mg when I first wake up to combat cortisol release. I have noticed that at 200mg per day, estrogen must start to increase, as I feel its affects, which is mostly emotionally and I feel indecisive about things, kind of a brain fog.

    I will look at the Formestane thread and glean some more info.

    What brand of Progesterone do you use?

    Thanks again.
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    Does formestane ave any risk, other than the ones that would occur if I used to much and got my estrogen too low?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    Does formestane ave any risk, other than the ones that would occur if I used to much and got my estrogen too low?
    I think it's pretty safe at low doses.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    Does formestane ave any risk, other than the ones that would occur if I used to much and got my estrogen too low?
    more research has been done on formestane than any other otc product i can think of. formestane was one of the first compounds looked at for breast cancer treatment. it was discarded as treatment for breast cancer because of poor bio-availability-the only effective way of treatment was iv. but bb'ers being as inventive as we are came up with trans dermal delivery which made formestane much more effective than oral administration. there is a ton of info on formestane, bb'ers have been using formestane all the way back to the days of arnold.
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    OK. I have one more question before I do my own research. Was it discovered in nature, or made in a lab? Just curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    Thanks for the info Dutch. Curious as to why you take your DHEA at night. I take 100mg when I first wake up to combat cortisol release. I have noticed that at 200mg per day, estrogen must start to increase, as I feel its affects, which is mostly emotionally and I feel indecisive about things, kind of a brain fog.

    I will look at the Formestane thread and glean some more info.

    What brand of Progesterone do you use?

    Thanks again.
    Mac, I had read that it was best to take my DHEA at night and it seems to work very well so I just never tried to vary it. I'll give it a try in the AM and see if I still get the same results. For years I have been using Healthy Prostate Cream @SupplementSpot.com for my progesterone but I am shifting to another supplier I really like Vitacost, and will now try their much less expensive Life-Flo Progesta-Care Men's Formula @Vitacost.com.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Mac, the Form thread contains more info than I can even remember. I have settled into my own system which works for this 68 yr old who is 5'11", 218. I take my 200 mgs of DHEA at night with my ZMA. After a morning shower I use 4 squirts of Form, every day. However when I use Epi I go all out and work up from 30 mgs to 50 mgs which I take 3 tabs in the AM and 2 at night. I also go from 1 X ED with the Form to 2 X ED as well. For my time off I still use my own preference which is some men's all-natural bio-identical Progesterone cream which does a good job on my E. I continue my DHEA/ZMA throughout all of this. Hope this helps for perspective.
    When you pulse Epi I assume you use it three times a week. Do you run it for consecutive weeks and how long is your cycle. When I pluse Epi I usually run it three times/week and use formestane and a natty test booster on off days. I usually run it for six weeks and then take a break. Between cycles I use 200 mg of DIM morning and evening and bio identical progesterone every night. I sometimes used a natty test booster between cycles as well. How does this compare to your protocal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    When you pulse Epi I assume you use it three times a week. Do you run it for consecutive weeks and how long is your cycle. When I pluse Epi I usually run it three times/week and use formestane and a natty test booster on off days. I usually run it for six weeks and then take a break. Between cycles I use 200 mg of DIM morning and evening and bio identical progesterone every night. I sometimes used a natty test booster between cycles as well. How does this compare to your protocal?
    Most of my protocal is contained in the above post. I also do a 3 day pulse and run my cycles 6 to 8 weeks. I tried a 10 weeker but it just wasn't as good at the end. Between cycles I am very happy just to run my DHEA/Form combo along with my Creatine/L-Arginine/Beta-ALanine stack. I works for me. I guess I should mention that I ALWAYS use 4 to 5 caps ED of Cissus which has several effects for moi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Most of my protocal is contained in the above post. I also do a 3 day pulse and run my cycles 6 to 8 weeks. I tried a 10 weeker but it just wasn't as good at the end. Between cycles I am very happy just to run my DHEA/Form combo along with my Creatine/L-Arginine/Beta-ALanine stack. I works for me. I guess I should mention that I ALWAYS use 4 to 5 caps ED of Cissus which has several effects for moi.
    hey dutch, i remember awhile back you saying you were a fan of powerful, you still use it?
  28. BBB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Most of my protocal is contained in the above post. I also do a 3 day pulse and run my cycles 6 to 8 weeks. I tried a 10 weeker but it just wasn't as good at the end. Between cycles I am very happy just to run my DHEA/Form combo along with my Creatine/L-Arginine/Beta-ALanine stack. I works for me. I guess I should mention that I ALWAYS use 4 to 5 caps ED of Cissus which has several effects for moi.
    I'm really supprised you use such high doses of DHEA. There a number of scientific studies that show it has detremental effects on the prostate and may even initiate prostate cancer. Do you use formestane as a staple?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    Thanks for the info Dutch. Curious as to why you take your DHEA at night. I take 100mg when I first wake up to combat cortisol release. I have noticed that at 200mg per day, estrogen must start to increase, as I feel its affects, which is mostly emotionally and I feel indecisive about things, kind of a brain fog.

    I will look at the Formestane thread and glean some more info.

    What brand of Progesterone do you use?

    Thanks again.
    DHEA is to far upstream to control shunting unless you are taking some form of estrogen control.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    DHEA is to far upstream to control shunting unless you are taking some form of estrogen control.
    Control shunting of what, E? I don't understand what you are saying.
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