Epi, Form, DHEA - All great but...........

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    Epi, Form, DHEA - All great but...........


    I've been reading post in this '35 And Older' forum and I keep seeing Epi, Form and dhea use for us older guys with good to great results. But, powerlift in the USAPL, AAU or IBE like I do at age 43 where these products are banned and if you are one of the guys that gets randomly chosen for the drug test and then test positive, your lifting days in those federations are over. Then I would have to compete in non-tested federations against juiced guys which I prefer not to do.

    I am currently and have been dealing with fatigue, sleep problems and extremely low to no sex drive. I have to almost always make myself train.
    I have changed dr.'s three times in the past three years because the only thing they want to say is 'it's just a part of getting old, here let's put you on some type of anti-depressant and it will take care of all your problems'. My total test levels for the past three years have been in the 300 range with a free level of around 12%.

    Any suggestions will be appreciated seeing that I cannot take certain products and continue to compete in certein powerlifting federations.

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    Have you tried taking Maca? Maybe your endocrine system is out of whack and needs a bit of balancing. Maca is supposed to help with that. NP has a decent Maca product:

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/n...150-grams.html

    Also, maybe you have an adrenal problem and Adrenal Rebuilder is a great product to take for that. It has adrenal, gonad, hypothalamus and pituitary concentrates with the hormones removed. It should also help to rebuild your endocrine system. I take 3 tablets a day.

    http://www.yourwaytowellness.com/hea...s/item/?pid=12

    Not sure if either of these products will help you but they were the first thing that came to mind when I read your post.
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    Thanks for the input Dath. Will look into these products.
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    also try rhodiola rosea with 3% rosavins
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    OP, I don't know what your regimen consists of, or how physically demanding your day job is, but do you think you may be experiencing symptoms of chronic overtraining? I would assume you follow Max-OT to some extent, but you primarily powerlift, right? What's the workload/frequency/volume like?
    RTR.
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    Workout is only three days per week and last about fifty minutes average. Monday is deadlift day, Wednesday is bench day, and Friday is squat day, with only one workset after warmup based off of a predetermined schedule. Assistance work follows the three main lifts which consist of six to eight movements for only one set to failure using a rep range of 6-10. So total number of sets per workout is never above nine sets. My job consists of sitting in front of a computer for eight hours, not demanding.
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    between 30 & 60....you lose half your test & half your hgh.........are you going thru other changes in your life...like love problems or money ..illness ....boredom..???..and you can forget help from 99% of the doctors......giving them your money is only making their car payments........
    maybe you should forget the USAPL, AAU or IBE .........and focus on feeling good about your life.....
    your not to young for HRT........trust me ....when you lose your sex drive.....it's a sad day........
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    I would follow charley's advice, forget about the USAPL, etc and focus on feeling better. DHEA is a staple supplement for me. A good sex life is much more important to me than lifting heavy and winning a trophy.
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    Forget about the associations, they have their agenda and it is not relevant to guys as we age. Our health and ability to function at our max is much, much more important. Yeah, DHEA is great for cranking up my Test, as is Formestane and Epi. But and for me it is an all-important but, each of them has serious health advantages for my body. At 68 I am dedicated to trying to legally replace that which the Good Lord gave me and is now fading in my body. Avoiding Prostate Cancer eg is a bigger prize for me than some AAU belt.
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    I resent the fact that at my age I have to play 'legal dodge ball' in order to obtain the things my body seems to need..........you can only get help with a lot of money... which I don't have......i have zero health care...and I'm not the kind of guy that asks for help.. I feel like I'm on my own..........
    My point is that I make my own rules about what I will take to help my body........legal or otherwise....................
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    I'm 41, and I only lift for myself. While I will use PH's a couple times a year, daily supps include maca, trib, saw palmetto, yohimbi.

    Result? A dramatic increase in libido, performance, and ejaculate volume. Is Clomed OTC a banned substance? That helps also.


    I'm still not sure why DHEA is a no no. Is it cuz it artificially increases hormone levels that drop with age? My doc says it's ok
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    phL8Tme..............i think the reason DHEA is suppossedly bad for you is because it may increase your chance of developing prostate cancer.......

    ..............
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    Quote Originally Posted by charley View Post
    phL8Tme..............i think the reason DHEA is suppossedly bad for you is because it may increase your chance of developing prostate cancer.......

    ..............
    Because of possible increased aromatization of the testosterone it produces. So it could be a factor for those with higher body fat levels, thus more aromatase and then conversion to estrogen which antagonizes the prostate.

    Increased T can mean more E as well and not just from DHEA.

    I don't see how DHEA can be bad as it is the most prevalent steroid hormone found in your body.
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    DHEA rasies a bunch of hormones. T just happens to be one of them. E2 will go up considerably on DHEA at 50-100mg/day and so will DHT.

    People use DHEA on dry cycles to help add some estrogen...

    This could be the reason why DHEA alone at higher dosages may lead to issues.



    This may be a completely stupid question, but does use of HCG show up on drug tests? One with low-T levels could probably benefit from HCG. Hitting that 30-60yr old testosterone drop surely cannot be 100% related to leydig cell production alone....seems like using HCG would at least get the levels up a few hundred points and maybe an aromatase inhibitor to block the E2 conversion. And, I don't see how you could classify HCG as a performancing enhancing drug when in reality it just forces your body to produce its max T by replacing the LH from your pituitary.

    And to you guys saying that getting help costs lots of money....well, my 10% compounded cream costs $20 bucks/month, with minimal insurance help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacTech View Post
    Because of possible increased aromatization of the testosterone it produces. So it could be a factor for those with higher body fat levels, thus more aromatase and then conversion to estrogen which antagonizes the prostate.

    Increased T can mean more E as well and not just from DHEA.

    I don't see how DHEA can be bad as it is the most prevalent steroid hormone found in your body.
    DHEA can actually become estrogen. For you guys who whant to try it (I'm a little young) a lot of people like it, and it's probably still less controversial than the two other chemicals mentioned.
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    The word estrogen seems to set alarm bells ringing when it is one of the hormones needed by the male in much the same way females require testosterone.

    Its when it becomes a problem that action needs to be taken to over come them.

    There have been many posts on various designer steroids where gyno has set in as a result of taking them but ive yet to read one where gyno has set in as a result of taking dhea

    According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone a study was done where dhea did nothing to add muscle mass but on the other hand had other benifits

    " However, a larger placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial reported in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2006 found that DHEA supplementation in elderly men and women had no beneficial effects on body composition, physical performance, insulin sensitivity, or quality of life.[11]

    In contrast to the non-beneficial effects of DHEA on memory in the elderly, a randomised UK study[12] found that a 7-day course of DHEA (150 mg twice daily) improved episodic memory in healthy young men. In this study, DHEA was also shown to improve subjective mood and decrease evening cortisol concentration, which is known to be elevated in depression"
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    So Epi plus DHEA should be sweet right? I take DHEA 50mg morning and night for cortisol control and I notice it. Keeps me in a better mood to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryManback View Post
    So Epi plus DHEA should be sweet right? I take DHEA 50mg morning and night for cortisol control and I notice it. Keeps me in a better mood to.
    if you want just cortisol control. consider other supplements.
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    Wow, this is getting fun, I take about 75mg o0f DHEA daily. On and off cycle. Never seen any sides, but changes to libido on the positive side. If it is true that it could raise E levels, why not a little Inhibit E?

    Wait, what was the subject again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by charley View Post
    I resent the fact that at my age I have to play 'legal dodge ball' in order to obtain the things my body seems to need..........you can only get help with a lot of money... which I don't have......i have zero health care...and I'm not the kind of guy that asks for help.. I feel like I'm on my own..........
    My point is that I make my own rules about what I will take to help my body........legal or otherwise....................
    For people our age BPH and prostate cancer are real concerns. I would highly recommend you do some research into the used of low dose bio-identical progesterone. Dr. Lee has researched the use of this product in aging men and women and the benefits are numerous. One of the primary benefits in older men is the blocking of estrogen receptors reducing the possibility of both BPH and prostate cancer. Dr. Lee has even experienced prostate cancer regression in some users. I have personally used this product for about 3 years. It has cut my PSA score in half.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    For people our age BPH and prostate cancer are real concerns. I would highly recommend you do some research into the used of low dose bio-identical progesterone. Dr. Lee has researched the use of this product in aging men and women and the benefits are numerous. One of the primary benefits in older men is the blocking of estrogen receptors reducing the possibility of both BPH and prostate cancer. Dr. Lee has even experienced prostate cancer regression in some users. I have personally used this product for about 3 years. It has cut my PSA score in half.
    I have been promoting the use of bio-identical progesterone here for years but people just don't get interested. It's a shame I have used it successfully to eliminate my BPH by alternating it's use with my Formastane and getting great results. I will always use my Progesterone. Stacked with Formastane it lowers my Estrogen to dangerous levels and causes a skin reaction that lasts for weeks. I found out the hard way. Alone, it is a perfect companion to my 200 mgs of DHEA.
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    BBB.........thats what i'm talkin' about.....i have no doctor....how can i obtain bio-identical progesterone????????

    can i order it online?

    ......and thanks for trying to help me out...........charley
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    why would you want to take something that women use on hrt
    exceprt from "http://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist/2007/08/ask_a_toxicologist_should_i_ta .php"

    Bioidentical progesterone is a joke. Don't even think about buying it. Then, consult your doctor with your health concerns.

    Bioidentical hormones can be dangerous. Studies have shown that hormone levels in the products can vary widely, so you never really know what you are going to get. More than a third of these mixtures failed FDA quality tests but they are powerless to take them off the market due to a loophole in the laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    why would you want to take something that women use on hrt
    exceprt from "http://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist/2007/08/ask_a_toxicologist_should_i_ta .php"

    Bioidentical progesterone is a joke. Don't even think about buying it. Then, consult your doctor with your health concerns.

    Bioidentical hormones can be dangerous. Studies have shown that hormone levels in the products can vary widely, so you never really know what you are going to get. More than a third of these mixtures failed FDA quality tests but they are powerless to take them off the market due to a loophole in the laws.
    I admire your unswerving belief in the huge marketing effort put forth by Big Pharma and their bought and paid for lackeys in the FDA. We could talk for days about HRT. The info on the near criminal exploits of the Pharmaceutical companies and their scandalous misuse of testing and manipulation of the test results in the field of Progesterone is readily available. Suffice it to say that their synthetic Progestins and even the quasi natural Mare-piss Progestins are despite their marketing hype simply not the same molecular structure as bio-identical products. They do cost 10 to 20 times as much and are patentable whereas Progesterone which is legal via compounding pharmacies costs less and has a much, much better safety record.

    When we look at hormones the big 3 are of course Estrogen, Progesterone and Testosterone. Men produce only half as much Progesterone as women. It is produced in our adrenal glands and testes. Women produce about 1/10 as much Testosterone as men. At my age, 68 I now produce more Estrogen than my 60 year old wife. For years now, on the advice of my doctors and after extensive reading and research, I have agreed with my Docs recommendations of using P to increase my T by reducing my E. As a side effect I have eliminated my problems with BPH and greatly reduced any chance of getting Prostate Cancer. I use 10 mgs ED of cream after showering. They also prescribed Androgel for Test. which I may go back to soon but for now I continue with my 200 mgs of DHEA. So no, I certainly don't consider my health and safety and the advice of my doctors a joke. There is serious medicine behind it and it works.

    It is for similar reasons that I have repeatedly used Form and Epi and in earlier times the natural stack of PowerFULL and Activate. Throughout each of these approaches I have relied on some good Progesterone to supplement, complement or replace other items appropriately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by corsaking View Post
    why would you want to take something that women use on hrt
    exceprt from "http://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist/2007/08/ask_a_toxicologist_should_i_ta .php"

    Bioidentical progesterone is a joke. Don't even think about buying it. Then, consult your doctor with your health concerns.

    Bioidentical hormones can be dangerous. Studies have shown that hormone levels in the products can vary widely, so you never really know what you are going to get. More than a third of these mixtures failed FDA quality tests but they are powerless to take them off the market due to a loophole in the laws.
    Bio-identical progesteron is not the least feminizing in men. Do some research and you will see the benefits of this product especially for men over 40. Dr. Lee is the pioneer in this research. Look up his work and then decide for yourself. I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of low dose bio-identical cream.
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    Are test boosters illegal for your sport, there are a lot of nice non-steroidal products out there
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayts22 View Post
    Are test boosters illegal for your sport, there are a lot of nice non-steroidal products out there
    if you play for a team and are competitive in anyway and you are not playing sport just as a hobby, you could check with the governing body of that sport to see what you are allowed and not allowed to take
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