I'm new to the forum and find it very informative. This may be leading to my confustion. I'm suffering from info overload after two days of reading review after review and opinion after opinion.

I am starting my research on a possible epistane pulse cycle. I have read the Results from Pulsing thread as well as the No excuses thread regarding SERMs.

I have found a stack by IBE..I'm sure you know the one. comes with the ep, cycle support, and post cycle support.

My question is...if I end up deciding to try my first ph cycle...would this stack cover all my bases, or would I NEED some others? SERM, I know is recommended, but I'm not sure if my doctor will rx. If one is needed, can I get some OTC suggestions?

Simple would be nice. I'm not looking for huge gains or a miracle...I would like to lean up and maybe in the process gain a few. I'm 35, 5'6, 167-170 lbs, not sure of my bf%.

Thanks for any help and/or guidance!

Jesse

I finished a 9 week epi pulse about 2.5 weeks ago. No SERM for PCT, just using Stoked. No problems. I have done cycles with "heavier" supps like superdrol. You MUST use a SERM with those. The IBE stack should work fine, too.

I would opt for pulsing epi....Really worked out nicely for me.

I know my doc would rip me a new A**hole if I asked him for a SERM. There are places you can get SERM's without a Rx....but only for your lab rat.

Originally Posted by Carl Hungus

I finished a 9 week epi pulse about 2.5 weeks ago. No SERM for PCT, just using Stoked. No problems. I have done cycles with "heavier" supps like superdrol. You MUST use a SERM with those. The IBE stack should work fine, too.

I would opt for pulsing epi....Really worked out nicely for me.

I know my doc would rip me a new A**hole if I asked him for a SERM. There are places you can get SERM's without a Rx....but only for your lab rat.

HI Just curious to know what dosages you were using and how you were pulsing

thanks

now explain what a SERM does?!?!

Originally Posted by Xman315

now explain what a SERM does?!?!

http://otcpct.com/

Originally Posted by corsaking

HI Just curious to know what dosages you were using and how you were pulsing

thanks

My first cycle was an Epi pulse. I overkilled on the PCT and used not SERM.

I pulsed MWF weekends off. I started low dose first few days...10 mgs just to feel confortable, then 20 mgs for rest of week, then 30 then 40mgs. 30 to 40 is the sweet spot. IMO.

with epi your better off just running straight 4 weeks

Originally Posted by james1

with epi your better off just running straight 4 weeks

or 6 weeks

OP - I like an additional milk thistle supp with the cycle support. A multivitamin, fish oil, flaxseed oil, and l-lysine are also staples for me year round.

If this is your first cycle remember, diet and training are 1 and 2 - PHs and AAS just get you to that next level.

Good luck

Originally Posted by james1

with epi your better off just running straight 4 weeks

I think its an individual thing. If someone feels better in terms of reducing side effects by pulsing , then so be it.

Dr D in his post says that by pulsing you are likely to get 60 percent of the gains .Whereas continuous dosage youd get 100 percent so if you can accept that and you feel better for pulsing , then why not.

Originally Posted by corsaking

I think its an individual thing. If someone feels better in terms of reducing side effects by pulsing , then so be it.

Dr D in his post says that by pulsing you are likely to get 60 percent of the gains .Whereas continuous dosage youd get 100 percent so if you can accept that and you feel better for pulsing , then why not.

I never really understood how pulsing could be safe without a continual base. The half life of most orals is 6-8 hours. So if you pulse 3-4 days a week aren't you yo-yo-ing test levels? Doesn't that mess up the HPTA even more and increase the risk for gyno? I could certainly see the benefit on the liver but i'm not sure its the all around safer choice. What about running like 1-T Tren for 6 weeks with epi pulsed 3x/wk? Maybe Trauma can throw in his advice on that one.

Originally Posted by corsaking

I think its an individual thing. If someone feels better in terms of reducing side effects by pulsing , then so be it.

Dr D in his post says that by pulsing you are likely to get 60 percent of the gains .Whereas continuous dosage youd get 100 percent so if you can accept that and you feel better for pulsing , then why not.

Idk the side effects seem to be non existent with epistane, and its not even a fact that side effects are reduced by pulsing.

ok whats the general Consensus? I need the opinion of the masses...IBE or CEL??

roll with CEL they have reliable lab tests and much better overall products

Originally Posted by james1

Idk the side effects seem to be non existent with epistane, and its not even a fact that side effects are reduced by pulsing.

Idk about the safety part. Dr. D certainly seems to think it is so. I really don't have any sure way of knowing. However as far as pulsing I know I prefer it because I am a very business person an sometimes I miss days where I really should be training while I am ON or I have a rushed workout.

By pulsing I prolong the cycle giving me more time to go at it. Plus....somehow I feel that if I have a longer cycle I have a greater chance of Keeping my gains. I straight 3-4 weeks cycle of means most of my muscles will only be hit 3-4 times on this cycle using one body part per week split. I personally would love to hit the muscles twice as much. I guess I just love bein ON and want to prolong it and it would be a waste to miss or have weak workout because of hectic day to day life/business.

Note; I have pulsed Epi and 1-T (right or wrong) I see pluses and minuses to both.

Originally Posted by james1

Idk the side effects seem to be non existent with epistane, and its not even a fact that side effects are reduced by pulsing.

i think common sense can tell you that if you take less of a substance then side effects will be reduced.

Originally Posted by corsaking

i think common sense can tell you that if you take less of a substance then side effects will be reduced.

Yea thats great and all but an 8 week pulse, dosing 3x per week, at an equivalent dosage is roughly the same amount of pills as a straight 4 week cycle. So all in all your not taking less of a substance, your creating relief points to try and avoid a harsh shutdown.

Originally Posted by james1

Yea thats great and all but an 8 week pulse, dosing 3x per week, at an equivalent dosage is roughly the same amount of pills as a straight 4 week cycle. So all in all your not taking less of a substance, your creating relief points to try and avoid a harsh shutdown.

Yes I agree. Another reason why preventing shutdown in my book might not be such a bad idea, is because we all have testosterone, so why not use it to our advantage rather than eradicate it.

What i mean by that is to take a substance at a lower dose and over a longer period of time thats going to compliment testosterone so in effect you have a stack .Just my view.

Like I said. I prefer pulsing because I don't feel blowing up in 30 days and keeping it is as realistic as having 60 days of hitting it hard and keeping the gains. I am sure the gains come easier on a 3-4 week pulse but you only have 4 workouts per bodypart on a 4 week cycle. IMHO.

Originally Posted by luclyluciano

Idk about the safety part. Dr. D certainly seems to think it is so. I really don't have any sure way of knowing. However as far as pulsing I know I prefer it because I am a very business person an sometimes I miss days where I really should be training while I am ON or I have a rushed workout.

By pulsing I prolong the cycle giving me more time to go at it. Plus....somehow I feel that if I have a longer cycle I have a greater chance of Keeping my gains. I straight 3-4 weeks cycle of means most of my muscles will only be hit 3-4 times on this cycle using one body part per week split. I personally would love to hit the muscles twice as much. I guess I just love bein ON and want to prolong it and it would be a waste to miss or have weak workout because of hectic day to day life/business.

Note; I have pulsed Epi and 1-T (right or wrong) I see pluses and minuses to both.

Hmmm, So is pulsing a trial and error deal, or is there a "blue print" or a "beginner" pulse cycle scripted some where?!?!

I'm also gonna begin my 1st cycle sometime in the very near future. I bought a bottle of Mdrol (and all the Cycle support) about 6 months ago, and intended to use it, until I found out my BP was a little questionable and how harsh Mdrol potentially could be for a 1st cycle. After months of deliberation, Ive opted to do Epistane, but only after I've somewhat peeked out my strength and size. I'm returning to training after a 4 year layoff.

Anyway, I've been told lately that Epistane or Hdrol would be a better 1st cycle. I intend on running them back to back with the appropiate PCT's and time ofcourse. Its just that "in between" time is what I'm the most curious about. I mean once you've done the 5 weeks of PCT can you follow up with another PH immediately, or do you allow your body time to return to normal Homeostasis. It's my understanding that's what the PCT time allows your body to do. I understand goals predicate which PH you should use, but lets face it, clean size is ultimately what each of us is seeking. I suspect, eating top notch during each run will allow you to the latter.

Its my understanding from a potency standpoint, its as follows: Epistane, P-plex, Hdrol, Mdrol, Trenadrol. This is the order that I was considering until I was told to be careful about running more than 3 cycles a year.

Originally Posted by Xman315

Hmmm, So is pulsing a trial and error deal, or is there a "blue print" or a "beginner" pulse cycle scripted some where?!?!

I'm also gonna begin my 1st cycle sometime in the very near future. I bought a bottle of Mdrol (and all the Cycle support) about 6 months ago, and intended to use it, until I found out my BP was a little questionable and how harsh Mdrol potentially could be for a 1st cycle. After months of deliberation, Ive opted to do Epistane, but only after I've somewhat peeked out my strength and size. I'm returning to training after a 4 year layoff.


Anyway, I've been told lately that Epistane or Hdrol would be a better 1st cycle. I intend on running them back to back with the appropiate PCT's and time ofcourse. Its just that "in between" time is what I'm the most curious about. I mean once you've done the 5 weeks of PCT can you follow up with another PH immediately, or do you allow your body time to return to normal Homeostasis. It's my understanding that's what the PCT time allows your body to do. I understand goals predicate which PH you should use, but lets face it, clean size is ultimately what each of us is seeking. I suspect, eating top notch during each run will allow you to the latter.

Its my understanding from a potency standpoint, its as follows: Epistane, P-plex, Hdrol, Mdrol, Trenadrol. This is the order that I was considering until I was told to be careful about running more than 3 cycles a year.

Re: pulsing see Dr D"s thread called How to Pulse Orals.

You are right, for you 1st cycle stay away from M-drol and Epi or H-drol is better.

And you are right that you should do less than 3 cycles per year.

Not to Hijack the thread but that bull**** and you know it...I think both companies put out very reliable products at good prices.

IBE brought Epi to the market, we innovate, no one can deny that.

Originally Posted by IamSOFAking

roll with CEL they have reliable lab tests and much better overall products

Originally Posted by james1

Yea thats great and all but an 8 week pulse, dosing 3x per week, at an equivalent dosage is roughly the same amount of pills as a straight 4 week cycle. So all in all your not taking less of a substance, your creating relief points to try and avoid a harsh shutdown.

As I've admitted before, teh maths are not my strong point, so be kind....

All figures typical and hypothetical:

Pulse:
3 days x 40mg = 120mg / week x 6 weeks (even Dr. D recommends pulse cycles stop @ 6 weeks) = 720mg of EPI.

ED Cycle:
7 days x 40mg = 280 / week x 4 weeks = 1,120mg of EPI

720mg of EPI over 6 weeks < 1,120mg of EPI over 4 weeks.

The pulse cycle utilizes 64% of the EPI that the ED cycle uses and therefore can be assumed to get 64% of the results as well.

i started loosing hair on 20mg ed just using for 2 weeks, as a result i stopped, Im now on Hyperdolx2 and the plug hole has hardly any hair in it after its washed .Been on HX2 ED for one week now,

Originally Posted by M16

Not to Hijack the thread but that bull**** and you know it...I think both companies put out very reliable products at good prices.

IBE brought Epi to the market, we innovate, no one can deny that.

Good post.

Originally Posted by corsaking

i started loosing hair on 20mg ed just using for 2 weeks, as a result i stopped, Im now on Hyperdolx2 and the plug hole has hardly any hair in it after its washed .Been on HX2 ED for one week now,

Are u sure you are losing your hair from EPI.....seems a little far fetched!

Originally Posted by luclyluciano

Are u sure you are losing your hair from EPI.....seems a little far fetched!

it may just be coincidence but as i say , now im off it , it has stopped.There is somewhere on this forum that has mentioned before epi can cause thinning hair and others reported it too.Admittedly its rare but nonetheless
its happened.

Originally Posted by luclyluciano

Are u sure you are losing your hair from EPI.....seems a little far fetched!

actually no its not far fetched whatsoever, its a common side for epi, Ive never had even 1 hair out, nor anyone on either side of my family, on epi my hairline started to recede and wasnt nearly as thinc as it usually was.

Not everyone sheds on it, but when someone with no prior history....who doesnt even shed on M1T says it made him shed...I would believe him.