Alternative Treatment for OSA (Obstructive Sleep Apnea)
- 08-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Alternative Treatment for OSA (Obstructive Sleep Apnea)
Oxidative stress in obstructive sleep apnea: putat...[Antioxid Redox Signal. 2008] - PubMed Result
Selective Activation of Inflammatory Pathways by Intermittent Hypoxia in Obstructive Sleep Apnea Syndrome -- Ryan et al. 112 (17): 2660 -- Circulation
The above are just a couple of complications from sleep apnea. There is also issues with BP, head aches, tiredness, etc.
As I have aged it has become a bit more of an issue with me. I was given a sleep study a years or more ago and diagnosed with mild apnea with only few episodes.
It was mild enough for me that enecdotally dropping 10lbs of body fat was enough to remedy the situation. As well my snoring got much less and more mild.
But as I continue my practice of acquiring new LBM of course the scale goes up. I have discovered that regardless of whether I am at 200lbs with 20% or 15% or 12% bf the threshold of body weight for me seems to be 195 - 200lbs.
A year or more ago, initially I was going to get the CPAP machine that my GP wrote me a script for. The issue with the machine and mask is that it is not covered by insurance like a prescription is. It is a "device" or "special" item. This means that it is covered after your deductable is met.
Well, I have a $500 deductable. I have had zero health issues that required that I pay towards my deductable. So the $495 for the machine and mask was going to be payed 100% out of pocket. Suffice is to say, I dropped the 10-12lbs as a cheaper alternative.
So as I aluded to earlier, as I am gaining more lean body mass I again am experiencing greater snoring. I know well enough to know that this snoring is a sign that there are episodes. I still don't want to pay the $500 out of pocket. So I began to do some research on alternate methods.
There was one style or type that was a mouth piece.
Welcome to the PureSleep web site.
You can see by the illustration how it works. But quite honesly I can sense it will not work for me I'll tell you why.
When I lay down on my back or recline in a chain and try to breath through my nose with my mouth closed I can feel the obstruction. I even speak nasally when I am laying down. Moving my jaw forward does nothing.
BUT...in the same positions if I stick my tongue all the way out of my mouth and close down my lips to hold it in place it is like night and day.
Check this out:
aveoTSD - Sleep Disordered Breathing
I know! At first you're like WTF?
I am an engineer by trade and I made a proto-type similar out of some synthetic/nylon hose. I did not use it over night but have tried it out during the day in the laying down and reclined position. It clears the obstruction.
I have found it on-line for less than that price that they advertise on that site.
Anyway...just thought I'd share my discovery.
I've been wanting to get treated for this apnea for a long time. I know well enough to know it is not good for me health. I have been reluctant to get the machine because of the cost, the inconvenience and the awkwardness of the mask and equipment. This looks like something that I will be willing to trial for ~$120.Within your darkest memories lies the answer if you dare to find it. Don't let hope become a memory. When you think all is forsaken, listen to me now; you need never feel broken again. Sometimes darkness can show you the light.
- 08-24-2008, 01:56 PMWithin your darkest memories lies the answer if you dare to find it. Don't let hope become a memory. When you think all is forsaken, listen to me now; you need never feel broken again. Sometimes darkness can show you the light.
- 08-24-2008, 05:55 PM
Used to get horrible apnea when I bulked up to 200. Hardly an issue now at my more natural 165.
A few things that seem to help are anti-inflammatory herbs like devil's claw, bromelain etc as they help to keep the sinuses open a little more. Of course, if your lower airway is blocked then that won't help.
08-24-2008, 06:39 PM
I am the leanest 200lbs I have been. I have been holding this weight ±3lbs and recomposing for about half the year trying to rehab the left side post injury.
I am a real endo and at just >5'9" I would in no way be able to attain 165-170lbs without being insanely shreaded or skinny fat. My set point is just too high.
My ideal "athletic, fit, health and wellness" body weight is closer to 180± and will likely start traveling that way again now that my symmetry and strength has almost returned to pre injury.
But yes, it is an obstruction. It comes and goes to degrees with body weight, more so after the 195lb mark. Regardless of my weight now, before or later, I have long suffered from interupted sleep associated with mild OSA. I ordered the device and am optimistic. If I adjust well to it I would use it even when carrying less body weight if it provides me with the improved sleep and reduced health risks that eleviating OSA can bring.
Within your darkest memories lies the answer if you dare to find it. Don't let hope become a memory. When you think all is forsaken, listen to me now; you need never feel broken again. Sometimes darkness can show you the light.
08-26-2008, 12:01 AM
Hypothetically speaking........If you were a patient saying this to me brian, i would tell you that the $500 purchase is more than worth it's price through long term benefits in the end.
Sleep apnea at any level will cause issues down the line if allowed to persist and progress. Prolonged periods of hypoxia can cause issues in almost every body system at some point. However, a respiratory acidosis state being the most common.
I realize that it's quite an expense to effectively treat a condition like this, but CPAP is by far the most concrete and effective solution. There is no doubt that there are TONS of medical devices that are more of a money making scam than anything, however this one isn't. I see more success with CPAP in medicine than you would think. It's actually used very often in the treatment of congestive heart failure.
I know that's probably what you didn't want to hear, but if i was to be that "Patient Advocate", this is what i would recommend.
Just my .02 cents though.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
08-26-2008, 01:28 AM
I agree with you completely John.
Like I said, When I am 10-15lbs lighter it is considerably less an issue. But an issue none the less for the very reasons that you stated.
I had been looking into an alternate as a first step in getting more serious about treatment aside from weight loss solely, as it only reduces the symptoms.
It is not so much the money as it is the equipment. I may have a bias against it, as I only have used it during the two sleep studies, but there were a multitude of other monitors and sensor and contacts rigged to my body. I had a near anxiety attach just trying to roll over in bed.
With this device I will be able to tell rather quickly if it provides relief. If it does, bonus. If not I will most certainly put aside my bias toward the equipment or the expense and pursue the CPAP as I am serious about resolving this once and for all for the reasons that we both understand and agree upon.
But as you mentioned this is not a gimmick, it is for real.
Stop snoring news
It's on the way so I will know in a week or so.
08-26-2008, 01:40 AM
I know that this issue can be frustrating to people. I also completely understand about the equipment bias as well. I know that it certainly would take getting used to sleeping with CPAP everynight.
I've heard so many good success stories with CPAP which is why i often encourage its use. I'm totally with you on finding a cheaper alternative though.....especially if it does the job at a fraction of the price.
I'll be following along to see how it works out for you. Good luck!
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
08-26-2008, 07:43 PM
I just googled the words "sleep apnea" and "cortisol" and found a number of sites (including peer reviewed journals) that discuss the high correlation between the two. No wonder my cortisol levels came back so high last year. The sleep study I just went through at the beginning of August showed pretty severe apnea. All the Retain II in the world isn't going to fix this issue.
I had jaw surgery a year and a half ago to correct the problem, but then packed on over 30 pounds as a celebration of my new look. I never would have thought that LBM increases would exacerbate OSA. I'm real interested in Brian's results with the two devices but have to think that the CPAP is the medical standard of care for a good reason.
I can only imagine what kind of changes are possible in life when proper amounts of sleep are finally available. If I have to strap that gaddamm CPAP on after sex then so be it. The wife is already on board and is being incredibly supportive.
I've hit a pretty solid plateau and all the supps on the planet aren't helping me through. This CPAP might be the best cycle I'll ever run.
08-27-2008, 11:48 AM
I have terrible sleep apnea people say i sound like i am dieing in my sleep. Dont think I have slept more than 3 to 4 hours straight in many many years. I wish you the best
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