Well, I keep looking at this and I want to reply but I am having a crazy week and the sheer volume of your thoughts is difficult to deal with! I am supposed to be the long winded one here, haha.
As to your comment above about people getting offended, I want to add to that really quickly. I use "you" and "I" with Kleen a lot in our debates, but it isn't really a personal you and I...it is for example or to represent a side of the debate. To his immense credit, he seems to understand that. Also, to be honest, I don't consider myself to have the level of knowledge that Kleen has...it is incredible how much he knows.
Having said that, it's good that he is wrong sometimes and I can argue with him when I have the truth on my side
Now, MrKleen think the distinction in the argument that I would like to make, since I don't know how to respond point by point just yet, is the "victim" or blame stuff.
I think you and I both agree that will power and free choice is paramount. But I think, not to put words in your mouth, you feel my side of the debate is taking blame off the individual and placing it on society. That is not my intent.
I am trying to point out that standing there and making decisions on the fly isn't always the best way to do things. Knowledge that your environment actually has control over you is empowering. Once you realize this, you can make choices that change your environment and then you have leverage on your choices. It is a big part of the reason people achieve things and then go back to their old ways, they use motivation to overcome the environment they are in, but then they get what they want and they stop fighting the environment.
For me, my original point is that pyrobat said people have an aversion to tracking food intake. I agree with this and was saying, I need to go a step further. I have to plan it out.
If I wake up in the morning and say, "what am I going to eat"....then what I FEEL like eating is going to effect my decision because I am making it right then.
But if I plan a meal that I SHOULD be eating the night before when I have no immediate gratification or any desire pulling on me, then I wake up and there is no decision, it is, "ok, time to make breakfast" and there is no decision about what that will be and no influence from the fact that if I think about it I may want something I shouldn't be eating.
And, it may not be normal in your eyes, but I have plenty of times when I have very little to eat in my house. I have had times in life where I was busy and didn't care and literally ate out every day and my fridge was near empty. Is that someone who wants to be in shape? No, but life pulls in directions other than that. And I had to make decisions to change that environment.
Just like someone making a decision to put their treadmill in their living room instead of their basement.
Or, one thing I learned doing the PSMF was that once I made the decision to basically not eat, those on the fly decisions were gone, and I realized how often I would walk by a candy dish and grab a piece of candy and never think about it, or grab something from the fridge when I came home without thinking. I saw it and would eat it subconsciously. That's not healthy either, but having a plan and rearranging your environment to create better gravity is important.
And I am not saying I don't have this under control better now...although I still work at it and I am not good at everything, but I realize that a lot of people are starting where I did too, and they winder why they can't lose weight. What we do involves skills, etc. We have improved on those skills and are still improving. But many people wonder why they can't lose weight and to just say, "your choices suck" doesn't really give a complete answer. They aren't losing weight because they don't even realize that they are defaulting to societies environment, which is bad. They need to plan a new environment AND become aware of their choices AND learn what good choices are. And you can actually ignore the environment and power through on motivation, but that doesn't last usually.
And, I don't disagree with your strategies of having healthier meals at Wendy's, etc. But those are learned skills. I can walk into a convenience store and find 30 grams of protein or more with 200-300 calories if I am in a pinch. You are doing the same thing at the fast food places..nothing wrong, but it took some prep and practice to get there and you had yo start with a plan of what you were looking to achieve.
Once you figured it out, you had it and had a fall back and that is good.
And not everyone needs to plan like I do, some people can just track and there are some people who just eat whatever they feel like and they do fine.
And yes, when the plan goes wrong, having a plan for when the plan fails is important (grilled chicken at wendys).
And hopefully you end up with 10-20% left over from that planning where you can enjoy a cheeseburger with bacon.
