Fructose?

[weissmuller]

Well I've been thinking a little lately about fructose and its general perseption.  I've seen some places sighting studies saying it fills liver glycogen and keeps the muscle starving, but then another site will discredit those studies saying oral high fructose corn syrup in untrained individual can't be used as a comparison for BBers and whole fruit.  I've also been thinking about the possible benefits/draw backs if this were true.

Just woundering what the general idea here is.  I've been searching a little havn't seen much discussion.  Checked out some reports and don't think many were very relavent.  So whats your guys veiw on this?

I'll post some of my veiws and idea about using fructose once I finally make up my mind about what it does in the body.  And for the record I personally don't use a lot of fruit but am considering changing that based on what I find out.

 

[YellowJacket]

Im with you, you hear its not that great for the body then you hear its fine for the body and then some places go as far as to say its great for the body. Here's my take on it:

Its low GI index doesnt allow the dramatic release of insulin like dextrose would. Because its metabolized in the liver, we treat diabetics with it (as a sugar substitute). I wouldnt recommend it in a high fructose fashion because it creates high amounts of blood fats, but I think in moderation, fructose is fine. Plus, if you look at what you eat in a day, you're probably getting a good bit of it. I eat a lot of fruits (especially bananas) so I figure I'm getting a more than average amount of fructos and I dont feel its hampered my overall nutrition or gains in anyway.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

The amount of fiber and water in fruits basicly means that there won't be much fat gain from fructose anyway. Also considering the low GI nature of most fruits. As far as not feeding the muscle, I just take in another type of carb with it.

 

[weissmuller]

Yeah guys I agree with what you say.  Just another issue of moderation and the rest of the picture.  But here is somthing I've been thinking of.

Lets say hypothetically(sp) that fructose was primarly absorbed by the liver.  Couldn't this be in some ways benefical for cutting?  As long as the liver dons't empty the brain maintains its fuel supply and will not prey on the muscles for fuel.  That could be pretty decent for anti catabolic.

Also IMO the weakest link when in kcal defecit and controlled carbs is the nueral part.  In most cases the brain and its system do much worse in times of low carbs than do the muscles they control.  So if the nueral system has a better fuel source than in the other situation, wouldn't workout intensity and effort be better maintained than if the carbs were only in the muscles?  Plus then the muscles would have to call on a slightly larger supply of fat for the activities they perform(training, cardio, getting through the day, ect.)

If this hypothetical thing was not the case then there just a low kcal density food, with some fiber, H20, and a few vitamins and minerals.  I know this theory isn't perfect or for that matter correct, but its just something I've been thinking recently.  I have no proof or data just my crazy ideas.  But I think with the short cutting cycle I am starting I might run a little more fruit than I normally do.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

Also IMO the weakest link when in kcal defecit and controlled carbs is the nueral part.  In most cases the brain and its system do much worse in times of low carbs than do the muscles they control.  So if the nueral system has a better fuel source than in the other situation, wouldn't workout intensity and effort be better maintained than if the carbs were only in the muscles?  Plus then the muscles would have to call on a slightly larger supply of fat for the activities they perform(training, cardio, getting through the day, ect.)

depends if you understand intensity as the traditional way figured out a hundred years ago "a percentage of your 1 rep max." if so then no, it wouldnt improve intensity. but the emotion and feeling of agression would be there.

 

[Dio]

Fructose is lipogenic and there's upper limit to what your body can use in a day (I think it's around 50grams)

Post workout use is not a bad idea since it preferentially refills liver glycogen. Even then the amount should be kept low.

Fruit is okay though

 

[weissmuller]

Originally posted by ex_banana-eater


depends if you understand intensity as the traditional way figured out a hundred years ago "a percentage of your 1 rep max." if so then no, it wouldnt improve intensity. but the emotion and feeling of agression would be there.

I miss worded that.  My point was more on the line of muscle stimulation.  Considering the brain and nueral stuff is significantly weakened in a glucose depleted enviroment then it is incapable of taking the muscles to their limits.  In theory if the nueral system was a little more resilant(sp) and also lacked its limits we could really take our bodies to hell and back.

I actually have been taking  more fruit than I generally do cutting(right now about 2 a day) and my performance in the gym has stayed level.  I am only a week into it so I am not gonna draw any conclusion, but can atleast say my muscle didn't vanish nor did my strength drop to that of a 5 yr old girl.  I cut on HST training so my results won't be incredible relavent week to week but I'll look back on it at the end.

 

[SteveDFW]

Lets say hypothetically(sp) that fructose was primarly absorbed by the liver.  Couldn't this be in some ways benefical for cutting?  As long as the liver dons't empty the brain maintains its fuel supply and will not prey on the muscles for fuel.  That could be pretty decent for anti catabolic.

Animal on his boad makes the argument that 2 - 3 pieces of low glycemic fruit everyday is good while cutting. He states that it allows the liver to continue to convert T3 to T4 (or vice versa, I am not sure which way it goes, but it is a good thing, LOL).

 

[SteveDFW]

Lets say hypothetically(sp) that fructose was primarly absorbed by the liver.  Couldn't this be in some ways benefical for cutting?  As long as the liver dons't empty the brain maintains its fuel supply and will not prey on the muscles for fuel.  That could be pretty decent for anti catabolic.

Animal on his boad makes the argument that 2 - 3 pieces of low glycemic fruit everydayis good while cutting. He states that it allows the liver to continue to convert T3 to T4 (or vice versa, I am not sure which way it goes, but it is a good thing, LOL).

 

[weissmuller]

Originally posted by SteveDFW


Animal on his boad makes the argument that 2 - 3 pieces of low glycemic fruit everydayis good while cutting. He states that it allows the liver to continue to convert T3 to T4 (or vice versa, I am not sure which way it goes, but it is a good thing, LOL).

I havn't heard of this but it really sounds important when trying to shread of fat.  If that is the case then fruit is definatley essential.  It is my quess that the mechanism is ensuring a liver fuel source for its jobs, any input on this?  Also I am guessing the conversion is T4 to T3 since I think T4 is a precursor but I don't much about this.  Definatley looks damn importnat for cutting, thanks for this peice of info.