The Official HIT thread

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  1. The Official HIT thread


    Official thread for discussing methodology, philosophy and individual experiences of HIT training protocol ala Arthur Jones, Ellington Darden, Mike Mentzer and Drew Baye.

    Compare routines, discuss training volume and frequency and offer insights on specific intensity techniques you employ in your training. Donít train in the HIT style? Feel free to ask questions.

    Not sure how many HITíers we have on this board, but Iíd love to get a few of us together and compare notes.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html


  2. Absolutely. Love cardio weight lifting. Last week did a 10x10 workout. Squats at 135 for 10 sets with a .2 mile run between sets, no rest.

    Ok alternate this style eod with tradition bodybuilding training on the other days with pyramids, strength sets, etc
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by jdm23 View Post
    Absolutely. Love cardio weight lifting. Last week did a 10x10 workout. Squats at 135 for 10 sets with a .2 mile run between sets, no rest.

    Ok alternate this style eod with tradition bodybuilding training on the other days with pyramids, strength sets, etc
    10 sets of squats sounds nothing like HIT to me, which generally calls for only one set of each exercise, performed to failure.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  4. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    10 sets of squats sounds nothing like HIT to me, which generally calls for only one set of each exercise, performed to failure.
    Ok how about I call it an interval then? The idea is that you work the same motion until muscular fatigue without stopping. While yes itís 2 exercises they are working the same muscle group so thereís no rest. Itís a HIT/HIIT hybrid.

  5. I am not a total hit guy, but have read mentzer and really a big fan of yates. I do go to failure but do a couple more sets than yates did in his workouts. Seems to work ok for me.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by jdm23 View Post
    Ok how about I call it an interval then? The idea is that you work the same motion until muscular fatigue without stopping. While yes it’s 2 exercises they are working the same muscle group so there’s no rest. It’s a HIT/HIIT hybrid.
    It definitely sounds like interval training, which isn’t related really to HIT as outlined in the OP.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  7. Quote Originally Posted by jtbull View Post
    I am not a total hit guy, but have read mentzer and really a big fan of yates. I do go to failure but do a couple more sets than yates did in his workouts. Seems to work ok for me.
    I haven’t read any Yates. How did his approach differ from Mentzer?
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    It definitely sounds like interval training, which isnít related really to HIT as outlined in the OP.
    Seems to me he is maybe confusing the two?
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns

  9. Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    Seems to me he is maybe confusing the two?
    I definitely think so, but don’t feel like arguing about it.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  10. Adjusting my routine a bit for the new year. Sticking with full body routines on Monday and Friday, but removing chest and giving them their own workout on Wednesday’s. Always been a lagging body part that I’ve struggled to develop at all. So my thought would be to set up as follows:

    Workout A

    Leg extension
    Leg press
    Calf raise
    Lat pull
    Arnold press
    Bicep curl
    Palms up pulldown
    Reverse curl

    Workout B:

    Squat
    Abductor
    Seated calf raise
    Straight arm lat pullover
    Machine row
    Face pull
    Lateral raise
    Tricep pressdown
    Forearm curl

    Chest(Wednesday):

    Fly machine(high rep)
    Smith press(heavy)
    Smith incline(high rep)
    Cable crossover
    Dips- negative only
    Pushups- max


    This gives the chest more volume than currently, but less frequency and therefore more time to grow. Also ups the rep ranges on some of these. I’ve been training heavy lately since I’m cutting, but I’ve never felt like I got much gains from training heavy- eventually gained strength but not much muscle development. I’m a prototypical endurance athlete by nature, so I may just not have enough fast twitch fibers to get much benefit from the heavier training. As always, the goal will be to add weight in progressive overload, so the rep ranges can gradually come down so I can gauge where I feel like I do better.

    Curious on thoughts from other HIT’ers.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  11. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    I havenít read any Yates. How did his approach differ from Mentzer?
    Mentzer heavily influenced Yates' training style. Yates applied it and did his own thing - when they finally met Mentzer suggested Yates do even less work but he didn't follow the advice. Yates often did 2 working sets per exercise.. slightly more volume than mentzer often prescribed but way less than most pro's during the day.

    I was watching Palumbo interviewing Yates the other day and they were talking a lot about how when Yates came on the scene and just started dominating, everyone started chasing him and emulating what he was doing and suddenly there were all these guys who were really big. Palumbo feels people forgot about Yates' training style nowadays and they have lost some for it.

    Mentzer has heavy influenced my style but so has Yates...and in practice I lean a little toward Yates style. I often do 2 sets per exercise with 2-3 exercises per bodypart.
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    I haven’t read any Yates. How did his approach differ from Mentzer?
    Back around 1996 i read cover to cover his out of print blood and guts book. I think i paid 17.99 for it and now its on ebay and so for like $100 or more and i cant find my copy. Key thing is that with mentzer for say chest you would do incline bench and flys and that would be it. Warm up and one set to failure. With dorian you would also do say decline bench and 2-4 more excercises for a big bodypart like chest and back where biceps would be 3 or 4.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    Adjusting my routine a bit for the new year. Sticking with full body routines on Monday and Friday, but removing chest and giving them their own workout on Wednesday’s. Always been a lagging body part that I’ve struggled to develop at all. So my thought would be to set up as follows:

    Workout A

    Leg extension
    Leg press
    Calf raise
    Lat pull
    Arnold press
    Bicep curl
    Palms up pulldown
    Reverse curl

    Workout B:

    Squat
    Abductor
    Seated calf raise
    Straight arm lat pullover
    Machine row
    Face pull
    Lateral raise
    Tricep pressdown
    Forearm curl

    Chest(Wednesday):

    Fly machine(high rep)
    Smith press(heavy)
    Smith incline(high rep)
    Cable crossover
    Dips- negative only
    Pushups- max


    This gives the chest more volume than currently, but less frequency and therefore more time to grow. Also ups the rep ranges on some of these. I’ve been training heavy lately since I’m cutting, but I’ve never felt like I got much gains from training heavy- eventually gained strength but not much muscle development. I’m a prototypical endurance athlete by nature, so I may just not have enough fast twitch fibers to get much benefit from the heavier training. As always, the goal will be to add weight in progressive overload, so the rep ranges can gradually come down so I can gauge where I feel like I do better.

    Curious on thoughts from other HIT’ers.
    This setup is more in line with Mentzer's applications with the exception of the chest being broken out. It is worth a shot.

    One issue I have with Mentzer is his lack of deadlifts...which I just cannot drop. This may hinder me because I have also recognized that it puts a huge drain on my CNS and I cannot improve on deads without at least a week between bouts. I have even started doing a heavy week where I go all out and then back off the second week with something relatively light for 15 reps before going heavy again on the 3rd week.

    I think Mentzer would suggest if you have a lagging bodypart then you need to return to the theory. Step 1 is to stimulate growth - by going 100% to failure. Step 2 is to recover. Step 3 is to grow.

    If you KNOW you are completing step 1 and you are not growing, then doing more will not help. The answer is to give MORE time for steps 2 and 3.

    In a way, you are giving more time because you are doing 1x per week - but you are also adding a lot of volume that may be unnecessary.
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams

  14. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    I definitely think so, but donít feel like arguing about it.
    Really? Because you seemed pretty set on arguing. Train however you want dude I could care less. I may not be explaining it properly but the way I train has a strong HIT influence as well as HIIT influence. Iím out

  15. Quote Originally Posted by jdm23 View Post
    Absolutely. Love cardio weight lifting. Last week did a 10x10 workout. Squats at 135 for 10 sets with a .2 mile run between sets, no rest.

    Ok alternate this style eod with tradition bodybuilding training on the other days with pyramids, strength sets, etc
    Quote Originally Posted by jdm23 View Post
    Really? Because you seemed pretty set on arguing. Train however you want dude I could care less. I may not be explaining it properly but the way I train has a strong HIT influence as well as HIIT influence. I’m out
    He wasn't set on arguing. He was just pointing out that what you described doesn't sound like HIT....and the reason it probably didn't sound like HIT to him is that it isn't HIT.

    HIT is "High Intensity Training" and it refers to a style of training with weights that is high intensity, low volume, low frequency. Often the proponents of HIT utilize just 1 working set per bodypart in a workout, with people like mentzer recommending a workout every 4th day (about 2x per week). The sheer fact you can do 10 sets of something, by definition, means it is not high intensity.

    What you are describing is, at best, High Intensity Interval Training, which is an entirely different style of training....although some of the principles may overlap. But in reality, it sounds more like Crossfit style than anything in the way you describe it.

    And that doesn't make it wrong...it just means it isn't high intensity training. Many people will say HIT is wrong. Many of us, like I said of myself above, use the principles but adapt then a little. I do a couple sets. My volume is much lower than most people on this board, but I am not always doing something that is strictly HIT, even though the principles guide me.

    HIT style training can be a real eye opener to a lot of people. Most people never grasp the principles. This thread should be good over time. Don't take it personally, train the way you feel is best.
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams

  16. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    This setup is more in line with Mentzer's applications with the exception of the chest being broken out. It is worth a shot.

    One issue I have with Mentzer is his lack of deadlifts...which I just cannot drop. This may hinder me because I have also recognized that it puts a huge drain on my CNS and I cannot improve on deads without at least a week between bouts. I have even started doing a heavy week where I go all out and then back off the second week with something relatively light for 15 reps before going heavy again on the 3rd week.

    I think Mentzer would suggest if you have a lagging bodypart then you need to return to the theory. Step 1 is to stimulate growth - by going 100% to failure. Step 2 is to recover. Step 3 is to grow.

    If you KNOW you are completing step 1 and you are not growing, then doing more will not help. The answer is to give MORE time for steps 2 and 3.

    In a way, you are giving more time because you are doing 1x per week - but you are also adding a lot of volume that may be unnecessary.
    Its not really a LOT of volume that im adding. I currently do 3 chest exercises plus dips between my A and B workouts.

    Its is more volume but im aiming that more at trying to get more reps in to try and develop the MMC. I get DOMS in my chest after workouts but rarely fewl the muscle working the way i can any other. That could be why im lagging.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  17. I tried HIT, didn't work for me, wish it did. Compete opposite for me, high frequency has always worked best, and basically keeping volume as high (in terms of tonnage, not just cranking out junk volume) as possible before recovery becomes impaired.

    Whatever jdm23 is describing sounds nothing like HIT to me.
    bang and your gains are gone

  18. Quote Originally Posted by BarryScott View Post
    I tried HIT, didn't work for me, wish it did. Compete opposite for me, high frequency has always worked best, and basically keeping volume as high (in terms of tonnage, not just cranking out junk volume) as possible before recovery becomes impaired.

    Whatever jdm23 is describing sounds nothing like HIT to me.
    Cause it isn’t.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  19. Sounded like a waste of time in general, frankly. 135lbs squats? Might as well skip the gym and get your leg workout carrying some old lady's groceries.
    bang and your gains are gone

  20. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    He wasn't set on arguing. He was just pointing out that what you described doesn't sound like HIT....and the reason it probably didn't sound like HIT to him is that it isn't HIT.

    HIT is "High Intensity Training" and it refers to a style of training with weights that is high intensity, low volume, low frequency. Often the proponents of HIT utilize just 1 working set per bodypart in a workout, with people like mentzer recommending a workout every 4th day (about 2x per week). The sheer fact you can do 10 sets of something, by definition, means it is not high intensity.

    What you are describing is, at best, High Intensity Interval Training, which is an entirely different style of training....although some of the principles may overlap. But in reality, it sounds more like Crossfit style than anything in the way you describe it.

    And that doesn't make it wrong...it just means it isn't high intensity training. Many people will say HIT is wrong. Many of us, like I said of myself above, use the principles but adapt then a little. I do a couple sets. My volume is much lower than most people on this board, but I am not always doing something that is strictly HIT, even though the principles guide me.

    HIT style training can be a real eye opener to a lot of people. Most people never grasp the principles. This thread should be good over time. Don't take it personally, train the way you feel is best.
    What heís describing is German Volume Training

  21. Talking with another HIT’er on another(not fitness related) board I frequent, I might adjust a couple things to the above routine. Do leg press 1st, in front of the extensions and don’t ore exhaust. Eliminate calf raise on workout B in favor of a ha string movement, most likely seated leg curls. And drop the opening chest fly and make it a chest fly OR cable cross after the presses.

    Would allow me to stress the heavy movements and not be pre exhausted, both in the case of legs and chest.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  22. Quote Originally Posted by BlockBuilder View Post
    What he’s describing is German Volume Training

    Quote Originally Posted by BlockBuilder View Post
    What he’s describing is German Volume Training
    Not really, GVT wouldn’t have a run inbetween......

    He was describing a endurance conditioning type finisher imo. To me squatting then straight into running then straight into squatting etc isn’t actually hiit (assuming the run is a run and not a recovery type jog).

    To use similar exercises but make it hiit Id do a heavyish set of 6 front squats then rack the bar, jump on a bike and max effort cycle for 10s, rest 45s-60s and repeat for 6 rounds

  23. Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    Talking with another HIT’er on another(not fitness related) board I frequent, I might adjust a couple things to the above routine. Do leg press 1st, in front of the extensions and don’t ore exhaust. Eliminate calf raise on workout B in favor of a ha string movement, most likely seated leg curls. And drop the opening chest fly and make it a chest fly OR cable cross after the presses.

    Would allow me to stress the heavy movements and not be pre exhausted, both in the case of legs and chest.

    In relation to this thread are we assuming on or off cycle training? As we all know what’s optimal on cycle most likely isn’t and vica versa. Imo HIT works on cycle but off (or for nattys) it wouldn’t be optimal in most cases

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    In relation to this thread are we assuming on or off cycle training? As we all know what’s optimal on cycle most likely isn’t and vica versa. Imo HIT works on cycle but off (or for nattys) it wouldn’t be optimal in most cases
    That gets debatable depending on who you ask. Somebody around here the other day was talking about this very thing, and basically said if it stimulates growth on cycle theres no reason it shouldnt off cycle- though obviously results are never as dramatic off.

    Curious on your thoughts about why HIT would work on cycle but not off.
    High Intensity Training log, wedding prep:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/305228-wedding-preparation-next.html

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    In relation to this thread are we assuming on or off cycle training? As we all know what’s optimal on cycle most likely isn’t and vica versa. Imo HIT works on cycle but off (or for nattys) it wouldn’t be optimal in most cases
    I disagree strongly with this. Being on cycle really improves recovery times, stimulus responses, etc. It allows you to increase both volume and frequency and still improve between workouts.

    If someone who is natural is using a sufficient load to stimulate a response, they better be using less volume and lower frequency - unless you are saying people recover better when NOT on gear?
    "I've never seen anyone change his mind because of the power of a superior argument or the acquisition of new facts. But I've seen plenty of people change behavior to avoid being mocked." -Scott Adams
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