[jrock645]

Got engaged a couple of weeks ago, with the wedding scheduled for next July. Destination wedding and the honeymoon in Ibiza. World capital of skimpy swimsuits. Formulating a plan to be prepared.

Background:

I'm 33. Trained hard in my early/mid 20's. Did SS, 5x5, HIT, etc. I have two herniated discs in my back, along with a slipped vertebra and a pars defect. Deadlifts, squats and most freeweights are largely out. I resumed weight training seriously a couple of months ago. Before that, had concentrated on cardio, swimming, and a military calisthenics routine- primarily trained for overall conditioning. I'm an endurance athlete, so this stuff was fun for me, but didn't get me the changes in my body that I'm going for. I also do 2 HIIT cardio sessions per week.

Currently doing a full body HIT style lifting routine. 2-3 workouts per week, depending on how I feel in regards to recovery. I have two workouts I alternate, one is chest/back/legs, the other is arms/shoulders/legs. Yes, I'm aware that HIT is hugely controversial. Many here won't agree with it. I appreciate any helpful input, but please spare me the flame war.

Current Stats:
I finished attempting to cut in April, and rolled into a mass building phase. I have since gained 10lbs and lost a little over an inch on my waist. I'm 6'2, current weight 210, 36" waist. Estimated BF in the high teens. I was at 227 a couple years ago, lost 40lbs but was rail thin with no muscle mass whatsoever. In my earlier years, I peaked at 208lbs and about 12% BF after a run with dymethazine. Overall, I feel like I'm reasonably lean but have always held fat in the lovehandle/saddle bag area. Even at my leanest I could never get rid of that.

Goal:

I'm going for the fitness model look, not the bodybuilder look. I'd like to get to the 10-12% bf range. I do not care about my end weight. That said, I will track progress through training by monitoring weight and waist size. I'd like to get down to a 34" waist.

Supplements and such:

I'm open to anything that doesn't involve a needle. Finishing up a sarm stack now. Not sure how I feel about them, but they're about to be gone, anyway.

Nutrition:

I lived on Keto for about 3 years up until april. Did it to lose 40lbs a couple years back but loved how I felt from a cognitive and energy standpoint. Over time, I felt like it dragged my metabolism down, like I've heard people say. I'm back to eating carbs, which still feels weird and I'm leery of putting on fat, but so far so good of late.

Typical day of eating looks like:

1/2 scoop vitargo w/ creatine before my AM workout
1 scoop purple wraath intraworkout

2 scoops protein and 2 scoops oat powder PWO

serving of rice and chicken(or similar, depending on whats available for lunch at work that day, but it's usually pretty similar) 2 hours PWO

1 scoop protein, 1 scoop oats

3 grilled chicken tacos

1pt pasteurized egg whites before bed

Totaled this up on myfitnesspal weeks ago, and I'm going off the top of my head, but it was about 2800calories, 220g carbs, 240g protein and 100g fat.

Most of the time I eat relatively clean, but I do sneak a cookie now and again. I work in a kitchen, and when the oatmeal raisins come out of the oven, they're hard to resist all the time. I don't drink heavily, but I deal with plenty of morons every day so I generally have a cocktail after work to wash the stupid down.

Training:

Currently on the full body HIT workouts, but will switch to a split routine after summer, starting in September.

Any input and suggestions welcome.

[daywalker81]

Got engaged a couple of weeks ago, with the wedding scheduled for next July. Destination wedding and the honeymoon in Ibiza. World capital of skimpy swimsuits. Formulating a plan to be prepared.

Background:

I'm 33. Trained hard in my early/mid 20's. Did SS, 5x5, HIT, etc. I have two herniated discs in my back, along with a slipped vertebra and a pars defect. Deadlifts, squats and most freeweights are largely out. I resumed weight training seriously a couple of months ago. Before that, had concentrated on cardio, swimming, and a military calisthenics routine- primarily trained for overall conditioning. I'm an endurance athlete, so this stuff was fun for me, but didn't get me the changes in my body that I'm going for. I also do 2 HIIT cardio sessions per week.

Currently doing a full body HIT style lifting routine. 2-3 workouts per week, depending on how I feel in regards to recovery. I have two workouts I alternate, one is chest/back/legs, the other is arms/shoulders/legs. Yes, I'm aware that HIT is hugely controversial. Many here won't agree with it. I appreciate any helpful input, but please spare me the flame war.

Current Stats:
I finished attempting to cut in April, and rolled into a mass building phase. I have since gained 10lbs and lost a little over an inch on my waist. I'm 6'2, current weight 210, 36" waist. Estimated BF in the high teens. I was at 227 a couple years ago, lost 40lbs but was rail thin with no muscle mass whatsoever. In my earlier years, I peaked at 208lbs and about 12% BF after a run with dymethazine. Overall, I feel like I'm reasonably lean but have always held fat in the lovehandle/saddle bag area. Even at my leanest I could never get rid of that.

Goal:

I'm going for the fitness model look, not the bodybuilder look. I'd like to get to the 10-12% bf range. I do not care about my end weight. That said, I will track progress through training by monitoring weight and waist size. I'd like to get down to a 34" waist.

Supplements and such:

I'm open to anything that doesn't involve a needle. Finishing up a sarm stack now. Not sure how I feel about them, but they're about to be gone, anyway.

Nutrition:

I lived on Keto for about 3 years up until april. Did it to lose 40lbs a couple years back but loved how I felt from a cognitive and energy standpoint. Over time, I felt like it dragged my metabolism down, like I've heard people say. I'm back to eating carbs, which still feels weird and I'm leery of putting on fat, but so far so good of late.

Typical day of eating looks like:

1/2 scoop vitargo w/ creatine before my AM workout
1 scoop purple wraath intraworkout

2 scoops protein and 2 scoops oat powder PWO

serving of rice and chicken(or similar, depending on whats available for lunch at work that day, but it's usually pretty similar) 2 hours PWO

1 scoop protein, 1 scoop oats

3 grilled chicken tacos

1pt pasteurized egg whites before bed

Totaled this up on myfitnesspal weeks ago, and I'm going off the top of my head, but it was about 2800calories, 220g carbs, 240g protein and 100g fat.

Most of the time I eat relatively clean, but I do sneak a cookie now and again. I work in a kitchen, and when the oatmeal raisins come out of the oven, they're hard to resist all the time. I don't drink heavily, but I deal with plenty of morons every day so I generally have a cocktail after work to wash the stupid down.

Training:

Currently on the full body HIT workouts, but will switch to a split routine after summer, starting in September.

Any input and suggestions welcome.

I believe that’s a solid plan indeed

[jrock645]

Will add pics on e i hit post count minimum

[daywalker81]

I support the point of reducing carbs after 6 pm in your last meal as you are doing with white egg for example as metabolism rate reduce by evening naturally .

Good luck

[AlexPowell]

Good luck and congratulations
The energy loss that you get on keto and when dieting are due to the following deficiencies: Iodine, calcium, sodium, Vitamin D

Corn tortillas have been shown to completely block mineral absorption. Please avoid corn tacos.

Red meat will be your friend when dieting. Looking at your macros you can eat a kilogram of 10% fat ground beef a day and you'll be at 100g fat, 200g protein and then you can eat the carbs on top of this. This will give you way better results than chicken and egg whites. The nutrient profile doesn't even compare. Salt your food with the iodized salt. Get a blood test - chances are you'll need 5000-8000ui of Vitamin D per day also

[jrock645]

I never had energy loss on keto. My appetite disappeared and the scale stagnated, but energy was absolutely never an issue. Thats why i liked keto so much.

Fortunately, i use flour tortillas for my tacos.

Ive been trying to eat more quinoa here lately, instead of tortillas and rice.

[AlexPowell]

I never had energy loss on keto. My appetite disappeared and the scale stagnated, but energy was absolutely never an issue. Thats why i liked keto so much.

Fortunately, i use flour tortillas for my tacos.

Ive been trying to eat more quinoa here lately, instead of tortillas and rice.

One more thing I can suggest is to try and eat the same foods daily as well. Your body will get better at digesting them. It's boring I know but I feel people get better results when they don't switch around their food all the time

[Kaiyas_daddy]

In all honesty, if you already have decent amount of muscle mass and looking for that fitness look, stuff like insanity, p90x , bootcamp type workouts best for your goals.

[jrock645]

In all honesty, if you already have decent amount of muscle mass and looking for that fitness look, stuff like insanity, p90x , bootcamp type workouts best for your goals.

I dont have much muscle mass, thats a big part of why my cut really stalled out. Need to make this furnace bigger.

[HIT4ME]

There are reasons a low carb diet stalls. I have discussed it in other threads but my theories aren't always popular and I dont want to give away all my ideas.

I think adding carbs in is a good move. You have a good balance of macros - but I have been experimenting with higher protein lately myself and I feel it is making a difference. For your size I would be shooting for 350 g of protein give or take, which would mean you might need to drop some of the fat and some of the carbs in order to stay under your caloric goal. I am doing this myself because I think it will improve metabolic flexibility over time. I have a few reasons for thinking this but that is basically what it seems like you are trying to accomplish - restore your carb tolerance.

As far as HIT goes, have you read Mentzer's book? There are some seemingly minor details that make a big difference IMO. One of these is the rep cadence - very slow movements. The other is that you hit true muscle failure - which is the point at which you can no longer resist the negative motion of the weight, not just failure until you can't lift it.
@hairygrandpa may like this thread.

[hairygrandpa]

@hairygrandpa may like this thread.

Sorry, not really. You know by now what I think about "planing" diets. Bullsh1t!
Eat less, move more. Period. Its only rocket science if you want it to be.

I'm still not where I want to be, so my input is of no help. Its not because I haven't planed enough, its because my discipline sucks.

[HIT4ME]

Sorry, not really. You know by now what I think about "planing" diets. Bullsh1t!
Eat less, move more. Period. Its only rocket science if you want it to be.

I'm still not where I want to be, so my input is of no help. Its not because I haven't planed enough, its because my discipline sucks.

You sure? Failure to plan is planning to fail

Discipline is certainly a key and you are great at calling people on this...you keep it real.

But this guy is doing minimalist training and a moderate diet. I get the feeling he is trying to pack on mass more than just diet....could be misreading.

Where do you think Little Debby would be if she relied on willpower? Nah, she had a plan to make eating sugar easy and accessible everywhere.

[hairygrandpa]

You sure? Failure to plan is planning to fail

Discipline is certainly a key and you are great at calling people on this...you keep it real.

But this guy is doing minimalist training and a moderate diet. I get the feeling he is trying to pack on mass more than just diet....could be misreading.

Where do you think Little Debby would be if she relied on willpower? Nah, she had a plan to make eating sugar easy and accessible everywhere.

Thing is, I suspect that the "big planer" are not the "big (fat) loser". OP started the thread with way too much info. On the other hand, he managed in the past to stay for long time on keto, meaning he has discipline.

Wait...

I lived on Keto for about 3 years up until april. Did it to lose 40lbs a couple years back

I was wrong on the discipline part. 3 years keto, 40lbs lost...that is, well, sad.

I'm not in a good mood today, I guess it shows.... sorry.

[jrock645]

You sure? Failure to plan is planning to fail

Discipline is certainly a key and you are great at calling people on this...you keep it real.

But this guy is doing minimalist training and a moderate diet. I get the feeling he is trying to pack on mass more than just diet....could be misreading.

Where do you think Little Debby would be if she relied on willpower? Nah, she had a plan to make eating sugar easy and accessible everywhere.

Ive read Mentzer, Darden, Rheinhart and Baye. Well versed in the ideology behind HIT, not new to training in it. Couple months in now, this time around. Started conservative on the weight, added weight every workout. Rep range started higher and is lowering over time. Some lifts are down to 5-7 reps. Slow reps, focusing on the negative, finishing the set absolutely shot.

Let me clarify the goal. Im not looking to spend a whole year dieting down. Seems unnecessary and would likely drop too much muscle that i dont have to give.

My plan is this:

Build mass at a conservative rate until march. My currwnt macros may need adjustmwnt as lbm goes up, but adding mass as well as inches to my waist is counterintuitive. I want this to be as lean and clean as possible.

Around march, start the cut. If Ive added lbm over the course of the next few months, cutting then should be easier than now. Pictures would be helpful but i cant post them yet.

Im on my phone, but ill post current workouts and planned split routine later.

[jrock645]

Thing is, I suspect that the "big planer" are not the "big (fat) loser". OP started the thread with way too much info. On the other hand, he managed in the past to stay for long time on keto, meaning he has discipline.

Wait...



I was wrong on the discipline part. 3 years keto, 40lbs lost...that is, well, sad.

I'm not in a good mood today, I guess it shows.... sorry.

To be clear, i lost those 40lbs in the first 4 months then maintained a slightly higher weight, until recently. It didnt take me 3 years to lose 40lbs. Either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you simply have a very negative world view.

[hairygrandpa]

Ive read Mentzer, Darden, Rheinhart and Baye. Well versed in the ideology behind HIT, not new to training in it. Couple months in now, this time around. Started conservative on the weight, added weight every workout. Rep range started higher and is lowering over time. Some lifts are down to 5-7 reps. Slow reps, focusing on the negative, finishing the set absolutely shot.

Let me clarify the goal. Im not looking to spend a whole year dieting down. Seems unnecessary and would likely drop too much muscle that i dont have to give.

My plan is this:

Build mass at a conservative rate until march. My currwnt macros may need adjustmwnt as lbm goes up, but adding mass as well as inches to my waist is counterintuitive. I want this to be as lean and clean as possible.

Around march, start the cut. If Ive added lbm over the course of the next few months, cutting then should be easier than now. Pictures would be helpful but i cant post them yet.

Im on my phone, but ill post current workouts and planned split routine later.

@HIT4ME is your guy to talk to. He is unrivaled in knowledge of this topic. Also for unconventional training approaches that actually work.
Maybe by talking to him, you could light his fuse a bit to get into gear, he got lazy and fat again.

[hairygrandpa]

To be clear, i lost those 40lbs in the first 4 months then maintained a slightly higher weight, until recently. It didnt take me 3 years to lose 40lbs. Either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you simply have a very negative world view.

...negative worldview.

[hairygrandpa]

I saw way too many newcomers with big plans failing here on AM. @HIT4ME and I wasted a lot of time on them in the past.
My enthusiasm was a bit curved by it. Sorry for that.
Also, I'm a guy with a lot of humor, try to go along with it.

[HIT4ME]

To be clear, i lost those 40lbs in the first 4 months then maintained a slightly higher weight, until recently. It didnt take me 3 years to lose 40lbs. Either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you simply have a very negative world view.

Lmao...the guys name is hairygrandpa. Doesn't that just kind of convey a certain level of crotchety old man?

He also speaks German better than English.

And he hates everyone and everything. That's why I like him so much.

But, he knows WAY more than he let's on, is funny as hell (not as funny as @SFreed though) and like I said, he will keep it real. We all need to be called out a little. We dont have to listen...but it's good to get called out for when we are ready to listen haha.

@HIT4ME is your guy to talk to. He is unrivaled in knowledge of this topic. Also for unconventional training approaches that actually work.
Maybe by talking to him, you could light his fuse a bit to get into gear, he got lazy and fat again.

See...like here. I HEAR what he is saying...but not listening. Something about fat and lazy? Sure..he is right. I am just not ready.

But he is way to kind with his compliments of me...he and others on here are pretty damned smart.

[HIT4ME]

I saw way too many newcomers with big plans failing here on AM. @HIT4ME and I wasted a lot of time on them in the past.
My enthusiasm was a bit curved by it. Sorry for that.
Also, I'm a guy with a lot of humor, try to go along with it.

Haha, but we had some good times right?

You kind of have to embrace the failure a little...fail, learn. Adjust, fail, learn, adjust, succeed.

And to be honest, I would have been one of those failures without your pushing....I know I have failed now by sliding back...but I did have some success. And if you didn't take the chance on giving me your effort I may not even have had that. It is something I truly appreciate more than you know. You helped me way more than anyone in my "real" life.

[hairygrandpa]

Haha, but we had some good times right?

You kind of have to embrace the failure a little...fail, learn. Adjust, fail, learn, adjust, succeed.

And to be honest, I would have been one of those failures without your pushing....I know I have failed now by sliding back...but I did have some success. And if you didn't take the chance on giving me your effort I may not even have had that. It is something I truly appreciate more than you know. You helped me way more than anyone in my "real" life.

Thank you. That is because I have no real life, hanging around in a virtual forum, watching you guys fail.

[HIT4ME]

Thank you. That is because I have no real life, hanging around in a virtual forum, watching you guys fail.

I thought it was because I have no REAL LIFE FRIENDS.

[hairygrandpa]

We are hijacking @jrock645 's thread, filling his precious space.
@jrock645 , how about a before pic? This way we would have a reference to your progress.

[HIT4ME]

We are hijacking @jrock645 's thread, filling his precious space.
@jrock645 , how about a before pic? This way we would have a reference to your progress.

Isn't that how we roll?

[AlexPowell]

There are reasons a low carb diet stalls. I have discussed it in other threads but my theories aren't always popular and I dont want to give away all my ideas.

Feel free to discuss in my log, as I have my own ways of preventing "stalls" on zero carbohydrate diets - would be a good discussion!
Best diet though is the one that you'll stick with!