[muscleupcrohn]

He was joking right?

No idea. My internet sarcasm detector has been broken for many moons.

[HIT4ME]

Yes, Exactly.
The main thing to remember is that everyone's max recoverable volume will be different, however it definitely exists and exceeding it for several months on end will cause long term damage. Most people don't go anywhere near that however I do see people in the gym riding that line a bit too much, especially on arms work!

Yeah...i actually think it is more common. Than a lot of people admit. How many people go to the gym 6 days a week for years and see very little improvement at all? Lots.

But my view could be skewed because I, personally, don't seem to tolerate much volume/frequency. It's like putting a pale white guy in the sun for 5 hours (me) and a dark skinned African for the same time and then asking them if sunburn is real or a myth. The African may say - sure, if you are put for 10 hours a day and the pale guy will say - yeah, after about 1 hour!!! Look at these blisters!

But I also think many people train with much lower intensities than they realize when they are doing 10 sets per bodypart. If you are not working hard, you will have to have more volume to compensate. Not saying that everyone who tolerates 10-20 sets 2x per week and is natural isn't working hard, but I personally can't even fathom working at a high level for that long and believe it is rare.

No idea. My internet sarcasm detector has been broken for many moons.

What kind of an idiot can't detect sarcasm on the internet?

[AlexPowell]

Yeah...i actually think it is more common. Than a lot of people admit. How many people go to the gym 6 days a week for years and see very little improvement at all? Lots.

But my view could be skewed because I, personally, don't seem to tolerate much volume/frequency. It's like putting a pale white guy in the sun for 5 hours (me) and a dark skinned African for the same time and then asking them if sunburn is real or a myth. The African may say - sure, if you are put for 10 hours a day and the pale guy will say - yeah, after about 1 hour!!! Look at these blisters!

But I also think many people train with much lower intensities than they realize when they are doing 10 sets per bodypart. If you are not working hard, you will have to have more volume to compensate. Not saying that everyone who tolerates 10-20 sets 2x per week and is natural isn't working hard, but I personally can't even fathom working at a high level for that long and believe it is rare.




What kind of an idiot can't detect sarcasm on the internet?

Yes. When we discuss volume what we are actually talking about is time under tension near the point of failure at a certain percentage of max. So someone that does rest pause will need less sets than someone who does pump training but the Time Under Tension at failure is actually the same

[muscleupcrohn]

What kind of an idiot can't detect sarcasm on the internet?

[jrock645]

I’m new here, but can’t imagine how anyone could question if overtraining is real or just an excuse.

[Lionheart1776]

In my opinion the cns will become overtrained before the body, if enough rest and nutrient intake is present i don't feel the body would become overtrained but so many variables have to be taken into consideration so its possible.

That just happened to me. I hit full body every other day HARD 12 sets per body part, many until failure. I'm on cycle (my first one) so I figured I'd be a ****ing ******* not to train as hard as I possibley can. Been eating like a freshly woken bear too, easily 1.5 G protein\LB and 1000+ surplus. Gains have been great but all of a sudden my free weight training started to decline rapidly whilst my machine work continued to progress to some extent.I skipped a work-out and did a 66% volume deload and recovered back to baseline. So yes the CNS can get overtrained, but seems to be more a problem for us gung-ho newbies who go off half cocked.

[Chamaan]

Overtraining is real, in particular for natties.

But there is more than "training" to "over"training. Sleep quality and quantity, and stress, are crucial and play a huge role in recovery. I believe a natty trainee with optimal sleep and and minimal stress would still reach overtraining, but with a lot more difficulty compared to a typical worn-out corporate employee.

[BEAST73]

I have been doing Over Training for the last 2 years now,and it’s very effective!

[HIT4ME]

I have been doing Over Training for the last 2 years now,and it’s very effective!

Haha, by definition, if it is effective you are not overtraining.

[BEAST73]

Haha, by definition, if it is effective you are not overtraining.

I know right. KML!

[muscleupcrohn]

Haha, by definition, if it is effective you are not overtraining.

This. Planned overreaching =/= overtraining.

[PHOTOSnFIBERS]

I think there is a point where you can destroy muscle faster than your body rebuilds it,

There were times between 12 hour shifts and workouts daily that i was genuinely in pain at work doing my job.

I honestly dont think I lost muscle though, I kept building it. I think you can eat enough for your body to take care of you.

But there are a lot more factors than that.

Train to much you may be in pain, may have no energy, may be stressed.

I have been diving into this pretty hard lately. I think its possible to overtrain but not with hypertrophy. I think people misidentify fatigue of the nervous system with muscle fiber overtraining.

The protein synthesis window lasts 1 to 2 days (for natties) depending on the muscle trained, bigger muscles like legs are closer to 2 days, abs would be closer to 1.

The thing about hypertrophy is its really hard to overtrain it, one is more likely to burn out their CNS before that. As long as hormones are ok and as long as nutrition is good, we are able to repair a massive amount of volume.

Its the nerves that are delicate. Once the nervous system is worn out, its really hard to offer any kind of effective stimulus for growth.

[PHOTOSnFIBERS]

Overtraining is real, in particular for natties.

But there is more than "training" to "over"training. Sleep quality and quantity, and stress, are crucial and play a huge role in recovery. I believe a natty trainee with optimal sleep and and minimal stress would still reach overtraining, but with a lot more difficulty compared to a typical worn-out corporate employee.

I think theres a big interpretation issue thats at fault. For the longest time id hear power lifters talk about "recovery" but they never got specific. I always thought they meant muscle recovery.

Turns out most who use the term mean CNS recovery. Once i understood the difference everthing made a lot more sense.

Now its a simple balancing act, hammer my nervous system till it needs a deload. Then train low intensity and high volume (hypertrophy based) for a couple weeks till my nerves are refreshed. Rinse n repeat.

[ericos_bob]

I have been doing Over Training for the last 2 years now,and it’s very effective!

Wow, few people aim to downsize by overtraining, and you still have a decent build now. You must have been Ronnie Coleman size two years ago.

[BEAST73]

Wow, few people aim to downsize by overtraining, and you still have a decent build now. You must have been Ronnie Coleman size two years ago.

I was 265 pounds Fat,2 years ago. Lol!

[UCSMiami]

I think it is more of a case of non-recovery is what most folks consider overtraining. Body is so wound up from a training session that insomnia is a result. That happened to me a few years ago when I was working out twice per day.

[AmateurStrong]

Some of the comments in here are amazing, here are my two cents. I will not get drawn into a large debate.

Fatigue is real and therefore overtraining is real. Every person dissipates fatigue differently.

When we workout we generate fatigue, between workouts we recover from that fatigue. There is both CNS Fatigue and Muscular Fatigue. Both will impact the body differently.

In general fatigue becomes a problem when it interferes with general fitness ("general fitness" being the fitness tasks you are wishing to perform). For example, lets say you Bench 405 and you do a bunch of workouts you are carrying extra fatigue and therefore only bench 380. This is a simplistic version of overtraining. Generally, overtraining is when you have numerous workouts spanning a period of time that generate more fatigue than the body can dissipate. As a result performance decreases.

[rgurleyjr]

I'm a little late and haven't read all of the responses.

Yes, OT is real as I dealt with it really really badly. From the time I went from too much training (overreaching) to noticeable recovery from my overtraining symptoms, was almost 18 months.

I was a runner, ran too too much, too many races, etc. I literally ran until my quads were sore for over a year straight, even after being forced to stop running. My sleep was the worse ever, appetite screwed up, apathy, depression, all kinds of stuff l. It was a dark time, I couldn't train at all, sleep, nothing helped. I went to all kinds of doctors looking for what was going on and the only thing that helped was time and rest.

I know I'm susceptible to it again as I have the drive to push beyond my limits. Also lyle McDonald has an awesome 9 part series on OT and overreaching.

[jrock645]

I'm a little late and haven't read all of the responses.

Yes, OT is real as I dealt with it really really badly. From the time I went from too much training (overreaching) to noticeable recovery from my overtraining symptoms, was almost 18 months.

I was a runner, ran too too much, too many races, etc. I literally ran until my quads were sore for over a year straight, even after being forced to stop running. My sleep was the worse ever, appetite screwed up, apathy, depression, all kinds of stuff l. It was a dark time, I couldn't train at all, sleep, nothing helped. I went to all kinds of doctors looking for what was going on and the only thing that helped was time and rest.

I know I'm susceptible to it again as I have the drive to push beyond my limits. Also lyle McDonald has an awesome 9 part series on OT and overreaching.

How many miles a week were you running?

[rgurleyjr]

At the most, about 45 a week. What all started it was high miles already,but then I ran Thanksgiving 5k at 100%. Stupid me tried to race a half marathon 3 days later, and crashed at mile 4. My legs were still sore from the 5k and I don't know what I was thinking when I raced a half so soon.

Worse yet was after I sort of recovered from the soreness and fatigue that lingered from that week of races, I continued to increase mileage and tempo runs instead of cutting back. I desperately needed time off and not more training. That was 7 years ago but man was I stupid.

[ericos_bob]

[jrock645]

At the most, about 45 a week. What all started it was high miles already,but then I ran Thanksgiving 5k at 100%. Stupid me tried to race a half marathon 3 days later, and crashed at mile 4. My legs were still sore from the 5k and I don't know what I was thinking when I raced a half so soon.

Worse yet was after I sort of recovered from the soreness and fatigue that lingered from that week of races, I continued to increase mileage and tempo runs instead of cutting back. I desperately needed time off and not more training. That was 7 years ago but man was I stupid.

Yeah I was a distance runner in HS but could never sustain the kind of mileage my teammates did. 32 miles a week was the sweet spot for me, including my weekly long run of 10+. I got up around 40 one week and could barely function. Meanwhile, I had teammates running 55 miles a week. And some of the marathon runners do 140+. I can’t even comprehend that.