ke0ki's cutting log

[ke0ki]

My muscle building program with Bobo ended last week. I got up to 186 lbs at my peak. My wife and I just purchased a condo this week so my diet and lifting has gone off track again. I started the diet Monday and weighed in yesterday at 182. This may sound rediculous but I look leaner in the midsection already after starting this diet. Anyways I have received my program from Bobo and will use this thread to record my gains.

Starting Weight: 182
Waist: 32"

Current Lifts:
DB Bench: 90 lbs x 8
Arnold Press: 60 lbs x 8
DB Curls: 50 lbs x 10
Seated Rows: 140 lbs x 10
Squats: 205 x 12

These may seem like light weights but keep in mind Bobo has me doing slllllllllooooooowwww reps. I will try my hardest to get ahold of a camera to take some more pictures.

 

[ke0ki]

Have been eating perfectly for the past week. Weighed in today at 182.5. Bobo had me hold off on the cardio till he saw how my crazy metabolism adjusted to the diet. I am looking leaner already and strength is up a hair.

 

[ke0ki]

Weighed in today at 179.5. My diet has been perfect so it could be I went to the bathroom or something right before weighing in. I am really responding well to this diet. I am leaning out noticeably by the day. My arms have a lot more definition as do my legs. Bobo said the gains come slowly... but I am noticing them pretty darn quick.

 

[ke0ki]

Weighed in today at 178. I'm looking and feeling leaner... but also a lot smaller. I look scrawnier and not nearly as "hard" as I did prior to this diet. I'm not sure what's up. I am taking green tea and cla and I think I will discontinue those until later on in the program.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Mid week. Worst time of the diet especially after your last 2 workouts.

THis is all part of dieting. It sucks and you feel tiny (in reality you haven't changed much) but that doesn't help much.

 

[ke0ki]

Mid week. Worst time of the diet especially after your last 2 workouts.

THis is all part of dieting. It sucks and you feel tiny (in reality you haven't changed much) but that doesn't help much.

Hey as long as this is what is supposed to happen then everything is good.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Ask anyone that has dieted. The majority always feel small. Its a mental thing and why most people quit.

 

[Beelzebub]

Ask anyone that has dieted. The majority always feel small. Its a mental thing and why most people quit.

very true. i've gone from 280 to 241 so far and i feel awfully small. best thing that worked for me is just keeping track of strength. the way i figure, if you haven't lost any strength, you haven't lost any muscle.

 

[ke0ki]

Weighed in today at 179. Strength is about the same. I have missed 2 of my cardio sessions which could be why my weight is still up. My diet has been fairly good. I had 2 cheat meals instead of 1 and the timing on some of my meals has been a little off, but other than that everything is just as Bobo has instructed.

 

[exnihilo]

Ask anyone that has dieted. The majority always feel small. Its a mental thing and why most people quit.

Haha. I'm leaning down to ~275 now, and I was thinking about what I would I look like at ~250, then I thought to myself, no way, you'd be f'n tiny at 250!~ No way I could handle being that small I'll just work my way up from 275 back up to 300 slowly then go back to a leaner 275. No point in getting so lean that I have to buy pants 3-4 sizes bigger than my waist so they fit my thighs.

 

[ke0ki]

Weighed in at 179 again today but looking leaner. It's possible that I am gaining muscle while losing fat.

On a side note, I received a free bottle of "Blue Rhino" from Controlled Labs and am running log over at bb.com forums.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=466187

 

[ke0ki]

I missed 3 days of training because I just moved into a new condo I purchased. Diet was pretty bad but I did burn a ton of calories while moving. Diet/training was back on track Tuesday. Weighed in Tuesday at 174 :blink: and yesterday at 176.

 

[Poobah]

Haha. I'm leaning down to ~275 now, and I was thinking about what I would I look like at ~250, then I thought to myself, no way, you'd be f'n tiny at 250!~ No way I could handle being that small I'll just work my way up from 275 back up to 300 slowly then go back to a leaner 275. No point in getting so lean that I have to buy pants 3-4 sizes bigger than my waist so they fit my thighs.

lol... I'm sort of the same way. Except i'm no where near the athelete as you are. I'm coming down from 410 pounds.. and I keep saying I can't imagine myself getting below 240... but maybe I can. I just refuse to believe that I can be that small... who knows.. by the time I get there maybe I can't get much smaller. Be interesting to find out.

P.s. I'm with Bobo now. :twisted:

 

[exnihilo]

lol... I'm sort of the same way. Except i'm no where near the athelete as you are. I'm coming down from 410 pounds.. and I keep saying I can't imagine myself getting below 240... but maybe I can. I just refuse to believe that I can be that small... who knows.. by the time I get there maybe I can't get much smaller. Be interesting to find out.

P.s. I'm with Bobo now. :twisted:

If you work working towards being small and pretty I'm sure bobo can help you

 

[BigVrunga]

I want to be big and pretty!! Everyone here is right on Keoki - after dropping 10lbs in the first phase of dieting I felt horrible - all scrawny and stuff. Its just 'fear of smallness' creepin' up on ya Its just a mental barrier you have to get through.

I write this as I pound down a roast beef sub, terrified to drop below 230lbs

BigV

 

[Dwight Schrute]

If you work working towards being small and pretty I'm sure bobo can help you

Thats because small and pretty is harder to do. Being big and brawny is easy

 

[BigVrunga]

Thats because small and pretty is harder to do. Being big and brawny is easy

Damn straight it is!!

 

[exnihilo]

Thats because small and pretty is harder to do. Being big and brawny is easy

Hehe. Looking big and brawny and having the strength to back it up are different animals though

 

[Dwight Schrute]

That is easier as well.


And I know guys that small and pretty and have the strength as well.

 

[exnihilo]

That is easier as well.


And I know guys that small and pretty and have the strength as well.

I think that's subjective - all the bodybuilders I know get hardons thinking about how clean their diet is. I actually like healthy food about as much as junk food (minus the two giant bearclaws I had last night ) so I don't have too much of a problem with the clean eating these days, but most of the time I prefer to put my mental energy into a big squat and deadlift

I think to be a really successful bodybuilder being anal retentive/fanatical is a very good personality trait, and makes the whole thing come naturally if you've got the knowledge to do it properly. On the other hand, being kind of crazy and cocky are good powerlifter personality traits, and will make the sport come more naturally. Trying to be a bodybuilder if you're not anal retentive or fanatical is going to be hard, and trying to be a powerlifter if you're not crazy and cocky is going to be equally hard - it's all what your personality is suited to.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

The diet manipulation throughout a pre contest diet, along with training and cardio is MUCH harder than any powerlifting routine. I've done both, I've trained both and its not even close no matter what your personality is.

If that were the case, 90% of my clients wouldn't be cutting. Being a bodybuilder goes against your genetic makeup. You are not supposed to have a large quantity of muscle with low bf%. You are basically fighting your genetics (and evolution) at every step.

I could easily increase my strength without putting on much size MUCH easdier than retaining my muscle whiel achieving 4-6%.

What is even easier is getting very big and strong. Eat a lot, and incorportate a powerlifting routine. Problem solved.

You can't just say I'm cutting calories and lifting lighter and expect to be on stage. The manipulation of diet and training is a complete lifestyle that limits you to not having much a life other than bodybuilding (talking about competition)

 

[exnihilo]

You can't just say I'm cutting calories and lifting lighter and expect to be on stage. The manipulation of diet and training is a complete lifestyle that limits you to not having much a life other than bodybuilding (talking about competition)

The guys I know in real life all ENJOY that, though they do get kind of bitchy a few weeks out. More involved? Yeah sure. That doesn't mean it's harder though - I have class with some people for whom differential equations are their daily dose of fun... Different strokes man.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

They can enjoy it all they want, its still fighting your genetic makeup and evolution.

Just because THEY enjoy it doens't make it easier.


Its not even close. Not even remotely.


There is a reason why America is obese. Its a lot easier to eat those bearclaws than to put them down.

 

[ke0ki]

hey get out of my thread :hammer:

 

[exnihilo]

They can enjoy it all they want, its still fighting your genetic makeup and evolution.

Just because THEY enjoy it doens't make it easier.


Its not even close. Not even remotely.


There is a reason why America is obese. Its a lot easier to eat those bearclaws than to put them down.

I don't know about you but things that I enjoy aren't work to me man. There are things people do every day that are totally alien to our evolution and supercomplicated, like getting good at playing a musical instrument, or doing really really gnarly math and so forth, you won't meet too many people who do them that don't enjoy them because that's just not how people are wired man. The only difference WRT bodybuilding is that there is a lot of social pressure to be in shape and a lot of guys don't have confidence around members of the opposite sex because they're don't feel attractive, so there is an outside pressure for people to do something they don't enjoy (and those people need a drill sergeant/mentor) in order to feel personally validated.

As for powerlifting, there are a lot of complexities inolved man, I know you're not into the sport so you wouldn't understand, but suffice to say that like any other sport, though body structure and genetics are a big factor, you may be a good bencher or puller if you're built for it, but you're not going to be a good 3 lift meet guy with just body structure and genetics, it takes an enormous amount of technique and willpower to be the best - kinda like any other competitive human endeavor.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Who the hell said it was easy and didn't take technique? If that is your goal, go for it. I don't care.

I said its not as easy as dieting to 4-6% while having a large amount of muscle.


For you to even argue that point is ludicrous and laughable. It sounds more like a defense mechanism that reality.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

As for the personality traits, that is irrelevant to me. I could care less who enjoy's what. I just know what is physiologically harder to achieve and that a very low bf% with a good amount of msucle.

 

[BigVrunga]

They can enjoy it all they want, its still fighting your genetic makeup and evolution.

Just because THEY enjoy it doens't make it easier.


Its not even close. Not even remotely.


There is a reason why America is obese. Its a lot easier to eat those bearclaws than to put them down.

I have to agree that being big, ripped, and strong without anabolic assistance (even with anabolic assitance) is a hell of task. I am taking my cutting very slowly, alternating between 6 weeks of CKD and 6 weeks of traditional dieting the whole while trying to find the time to get in all the cardio & weight training around a busy-as-hell schedule.

After being ~15% BF and above for the past couple years, Im more than ready to see what's underneath. For me, the dieting part is relatively easy - But dealing with getting smaller and losing a little strength is just hard to deal with, mentally. The first person that said 'Dude, are you losing weight?' sent me into a fit of paranoia that almost had me running out of the gym to grocery store to buy a cartful of brown rice and chicken! :frustrate



BV

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Yeah, its emotionally much more taxing. It sucks, plain and simple. Now do that for 16-20 weeks while your body is telling you every step of the way to stop. Its awful. If it were easy, all bodybuilders would be walking around sub 10%.

 

[exnihilo]

Who the hell said it was easy and didn't take technique? If that is your goal, go for it. I don't care.

I said its not as easy as dieting to 4-6% while having a large amount of muscle.


For you to even argue that point is ludicrous and laughable.

*shrug* Think what you want man. Physiologically easier? Maybe. But powerlifting isn't about reaching some pre-determined point ("big + lean") it's about going against other people, so comparing a competitive sport to reaching a certain appearance is kind of silly. As for the training and prep, anyone who doesn't put 110% of themselves into their chosen discipline is going to be run over by people who do, whether it's bodybuilding or powerlifting man. It's just about what you are passionate about and suited to...


Sorry to hijack keoki. I'm all set... Best of luck bro.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Its much easier IMO to compete against other people in a athletic sport than fight yourself and your own body for 20 weeks in a sport based on looks.

Ask glenihan, he's tell you right now. :lol

 

[Dwight Schrute]

hey get out of my thread :hammer:

Go eat a rice cake!

 

[ke0ki]

i've tried cutting 2 times once with ckd and once low fat and both times i failed to achieve my goals. every time i bulk i achieve my goals and then some. from personal experience i would agree with bobo on this one.

 

[BigVrunga]

I have found the CKD very useful as a cutting tool. If you do it right - it does what it's supposed to do, and that's drop bodyfat while preserving as much muscle as possible.

I actually find it easier to stick to a diet while doing a CKD because I know I can't eat certain foods, or my goals for that week will be ruined. With a traditional diet, I'm more likely to bend a little...a couple Fritos here and there, a bite of a doughnut - you get the idea.

So, on my first 'real' cut, I am experimenting with cycling the CKD with a traditional diet, because I dont know if I could stand (or if its all that good for you) to be in ketosis for 20+ weeks. So far it seems to be working - I dropped 2%BF and ~12lbs with the first CKD cycle, and Ive gained about 2lbs back through the past 6 weeks of maitenence dieting. Hoping the next CKD run gets me down another 2%...I should start looking pretty decent

I think, when you're first dieting its the hardest, because going from, say 17%BF to 15% really isnt that much of a change. You shrink, that's about it. When you start getting down around 10-12% and the muscles really start showing - I think that will be very motivating. I dont know though, Im not there yet

anyone who doesn't put 110% of themselves into their chosen discipline is going to be run over by people who do,

And that is the naked truth right there!!! I've never powerlifted to the point where I was going to meets and competing, but did train that way for quite a while throughout the past couple years. Its defintely not easy, but I think one reason why it would be easier to stick to is because with most powerlifters you've got the 'crew' - a bunch of huge dudes who train together and support eachother through the incredibly difficult tasks of moving massive amounts of weight. And that's awesome.

That's what we need! A cutting crew!! That would solve everything

BV

 

[exnihilo]

i've tried cutting 2 times once with ckd and once low fat and both times i failed to achieve my goals. every time i bulk i achieve my goals and then some. from personal experience i would agree with bobo on this one.

I never said losing bodyfat while retaining the majority of your muscle wasn't harder than getting big and smoothing out (that would be silly ). I'm talking specifically about being a top notch competitive powerlifter... If you're not working as smart and hard as you possibly can you're never going to make it (hell, just like anything else even if you are you probably won't make it) because there are too many genetically gifted individuals who ARE eating, breathing and sleeping powerlifting... Bodybuilders exert their force of will dieting and doing cardio, powerlifters exert it under a PR attempt that requires everything you've got, and then some.

The only point I've been trying to make is that for any competitive endeavor, unless you're a wunderkind (and sometimes even then) you have to give it everything you've got if you hope to be in the elite levels of that endeavor. Whether it's bodybuilding, powerlifting, gymnastics, ballet, playing the piano or whatever, the total dedication required is the same, it's just different people's personalities and what they enjoy that will allow them to cope with the level of dedication required. Nothing else.

 

[BigVrunga]

Well said...

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I don't disgree with any of that.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I have found the CKD very useful as a cutting tool. If you do it right - it does what it's supposed to do, and that's drop bodyfat while preserving as much muscle as possible.

I actually find it easier to stick to a diet while doing a CKD because I know I can't eat certain foods, or my goals for that week will be ruined. With a traditional diet, I'm more likely to bend a little...a couple Fritos here and there, a bite of a doughnut - you get the idea.

So, on my first 'real' cut, I am experimenting with cycling the CKD with a traditional diet, because I dont know if I could stand (or if its all that good for you) to be in ketosis for 20+ weeks. So far it seems to be working - I dropped 2%BF and ~12lbs with the first CKD cycle, and Ive gained about 2lbs back through the past 6 weeks of maitenence dieting. Hoping the next CKD run gets me down another 2%...I should start looking pretty decent

I think, when you're first dieting its the hardest, because going from, say 17%BF to 15% really isnt that much of a change. You shrink, that's about it. When you start getting down around 10-12% and the muscles really start showing - I think that will be very motivating. I dont know though, Im not there yet



A

BV

The lower bf% you get the more chance a CKD for any prolonged period of time will generally fail.

Anytime you see-saw back and forth for any prolonged period of time the more the body will respond in a negative way.

The key to long term goals is slowly and gradually tapering everything to point of still losing fat and retaining muscle WHILE leaving hormone levels consistent (something a CKD won't do)

 

[BigVrunga]

The lower bf% you get the more chance a CKD for any prolonged period of time will generally fail.

So you think cycling the CKD is a bad idea Bobo? Sheeeit, I thought I was on the right track there. Slowly, progressively reducing cals with a traditional diet is superior?

It seems to be working great right now, but I can see how trying to stay at <9%-10% it would be a bad idea. The CKD seems like a good, effective way to get out of the higher BF% relatively quickly - but I completely agree that going back and forth while trying to maintain a low BF percentage wouldnt work too well.

My plan was to CKD from 17%-15% for 6-8 weeks, maintain for 6-8, CKD again to get down around 12%, and then use a traditional diet to get down to ~9%.

BV

 

[Beowulf]

Big V,
I have to say that I think Bobo is right. A few months ago I started experimenting with UD2.0. Previously, I had used more traditional approaches to cutting. I started a thread about UD2.0, where Bobo told me it has a lot of drawbacks. I did it, got cut up pretty quickly, but lost strength gradually. After, I gained fat back pretty quickly. The culprit, more than anything else, seemed to be the see-saw of deprivation/overindulgence. You also have to train everything 3-4 times per week with UD 2.0. That made my rotator cuff flare up pretty badly. I'm still in the process of figuring out my body, and I think i've figured out that that is not the optimal approach for me. I'm approaching the end of my first week with a Bobo creation, so I'll fill you in on how it goes in a few weeks. I have a feeling that I won't be doing a CKD ever again.

 

[BigVrunga]

hmmm...thanks for the advice, Beowulf. The CKD worked well for me,but my strength did go down a bit - its back up though after 6 weeks of maitenence/traditional nute ratios. I guess different bodies work better with different methods. CKD.com is full of people that swear by it.

I havent read too much about UD2.0 - other than that its really hard to follow. With the CKD I did - I trained everything like I normally do, and did mild cardio 4x a week. The 2nd week without carbs was rough, but after the refeeds I felt really good with lots of energy. I went from a nice snug fit in my size 38 pants to being comfortable in the 34's that have been in the closet for 6 months, except Im a little tight around the quads So that's a good thing!

I did gain a bit of fat back since Ive been of the diet, but Ive also been eating over maintence the past couple weeks, in an effort to get strength up before I start the next CKD phase. Still, right around 15% and nowhere near as chunky as I was 10lbs ago.

Im not saying Bobo's methods arent superior to this one, quite the contrary Im sure that if I were training under him Id be seeing great results - things seem to be going OK for me though with the plan Im on. If I start losing copious amounts of muscle of course I will change my methods!!

Thanks,
BV

 

[Dwight Schrute]

So you think cycling the CKD is a bad idea Bobo? Sheeeit, I thought I was on the right track there. Slowly, progressively reducing cals with a traditional diet is superior?

It seems to be working great right now, but I can see how trying to stay at <9%-10% it would be a bad idea. The CKD seems like a good, effective way to get out of the higher BF% relatively quickly - but I completely agree that going back and forth while trying to maintain a low BF percentage wouldnt work too well.

My plan was to CKD from 17%-15% for 6-8 weeks, maintain for 6-8, CKD again to get down around 12%, and then use a traditional diet to get down to ~9%.

BV

For anyone that has a high bf%, yes. You simply can eat a shitload of calories on a traditional diet, maintain ALL of your strength and drop bodyfat at a rate of 2lb/week WHILE maintaing a very healthy hormonal profile that allows you to taper for a long peroid of time.

The idea you can lose more bodyfat in a given point of time by manipulating carbohydrate intake is a crock of **** IMO. Fat loss is a pretty steady thing and the body regulates it fairly easily. You can lose more WEIGHT with low carb diets but not more fat.


So its basically a choice. For better long term results and a chance to achieve low bf%, a low carb diet is not the best option IMO. Constant carbohydrate intake is simply too important IMO.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

hmmm...thanks for the advice, Beowulf. The CKD worked well for me,but my strength did go down a bit - its back up though after 6 weeks of maitenence/traditional nute ratios. I guess different bodies work better with different methods. CKD.com is full of people that swear by it.

I

If you lose strenght, its a good sign that you are losing muscle or VERY close to it.

I wouldn't think the people at ckd.com like the 40/40/20 split. Then again I did take one of their mods and proved him how much better a 40/40/20 can be

He will NEVER go back to a low carb diet again....I know that for fact

 

[DieTrying]

Just to drop my 2 cents-
I've been through phases where I concentrated on strength and power, and a phase of cutting to try to achieve very low bf, so I have an opinion on both.

The dieting was without a doubt one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And I didn't even get as close as I'd like, but I just couldn't do it anymore. I have a HUGE respect for bodybuilders, drugs or no drugs. Dieting is tough, even depressing (was for me anyway).

 

[BigVrunga]

Thanks for your input Bobo - maybe I will forgo the next CKD after all. Its hard to make up my mind at this point. Ive never tried to achieve a 'ripped' physique up until now, Im training by myself so at times its tough to get motivated when Ive got so much else going on. Maybe I need to jump on the Bobo plan

BV

 

[ke0ki]

Weight today was 176.6. Feeling scrawny and looking soft. I am looking leaner but also alot less muscular. My diet has been superb except I had 2 cheat meals on Sunday instead of 1. I dunno what's up.

I ordered some superdrol yesterday and am going to start a cycle to give me a little help.

 

[ke0ki]

Weighed in at 176.6 again today. My waist is TINY and getting smaller by the day. I still don't have a sixpack (the lower 2 just never show) but I can see a lot of definition where there wasn't much previously. I have been eating and training perfectly since my last post. I still feel small but I am really starting to look lean and cut. I would say I'm around 10% bf and hope to get around 5-6% within the next 6 weeks. Funny thing is my strength is up on triceps and remaining the same in all other areas.

As I stated in my previous post I will be starting a superdrol cycle on Monday and am going back and forth between a 2on-2off-2on and 3on-2off-3on cycle.

 

[ke0ki]

Started my SD yesterday. Going at 10mg a day for 3 weeks. No 2nd cycle after that.

Weighed in today at 177.5. Weight gain is due in part to water gain from sd and some not so great eating this past weekend. Prior to this weekend I looked rippped to shreds.

 

[ke0ki]

Weight today was 179.2. Saw midnight showing of Star Wars last night and got a bag of movie theater popcorn and bag of chewy sweet tarts (this is extremely rare). I was expecting to look terrible today but I actually looked leaner and more defined then the day before! I am thinking it's the sd working (i love this stuff already).

 

[ke0ki]

Time for an update...

Bobo is king of personal trainers. SD is pinnacle of legal androgens.

I have hovered around 179 for 2 weeks now but I am MUCH leaner and I look quite buff My strength is up on everything and I feel great. I bumped the sd up to 20mg. Yes, SD lived up to the hype although it was milder than I anticipated. Diet has been close to perfect (minus a handful of cheddar cheese popcorn and tuna sushi with white rice). Haven't missed a workout or cardio session yet. Initially I wasn't doing my cardio in the morning and holding off till later in the day. I have changed that and made time for AM cardio. I have never been this ripped before in my life but I still don't have a freaking 6 pack!! The bottom 2 abs just don't want to show. Regardless I suspect I am at 7-8% now. I am hoping to get to 4-6% with Bobo's help. HELLLP MEEEE BOBOOO.

Here are my lifts as of now (this isn't what I can do for EVERY set rather what I can do on my first set following warmup):

DB bench: 100 x 8
Arnold Press: 70 x 8
DB Curls: 55 x 8
Seated Rows: 150 x 10
Squats: 225 x 12
Bent Over Rows: 275 x 6
Pull Ups: 7 w/45 lbs around waist


I am going to add an ECA in to the equation in the next week or so. Bobo any recommendations on when I should do this?