Shoulder pain during overhead db press

[yazan]

Pretty much what the title is. But it's weird. The first couple reps were on then I started to feel pain when my arm is about half way up and the pain is there until I start lowering the db. I have no prob with the weight I managed to work through the pain for a set. But anyone have any idea?

 

[OrganicShadow]

When speaking of overhead press (usually barbell) I ask about daily activities that influence posture. Someone sitting at a computer desk with their elbows on the table are far less likely to perform an overhead press with good form and not cause some strain.

 

[bigguyn10ec]

when you do them dont bring them together at the top Only do the press movement. One thing I do I not go so deep with the movement and not meet at the top .
This does two things. One keeps your shoulders in a tight position and not stretched out in the top at the weakest point , or stretched out at the bottom.
I like doing it to where the weight are a right at my ears then back up , without bringing them together. This keep tension on the muscle the whole time. I hope this helps.
Also by doing some rotator cuff warmup before any pressing or pulling movement is a must!.

 

[NYiron]

If you are protracted or internally rotated at your glenohumeral joint you could be suffering a shoulder impingement and/or subacromial bursitis. Where exactly is the pain felt and does it occur during any other exercises (ie. during GH abduction, extension, flexion, external or internal rotation)? Like organicshadow had said your posture has a lot to do with this. Perform this test, this is for shoulder impingement. Place the hand of the affected shoulder across your body and on the unaffected shoulder. Keep the palm firmly in contact with your shoulder then raise your elbow to your nose without flexing your neck to assist in contact. If pain is experienced at any point, do not push through it, or the test can not be completed it is a pretty good indication of shoulder impingement and you may want to seek the help of a professional. the forum wont let me pos the picture yet but if you google: Elbow raise shoulder impingement test, the first picture is a good representation.

 

[Rodja]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/8_weeks_to_monster_shoulders;jsessionid=E914F298B03F782C91E4719E10B87A40-mcd02.hydra

 

[NYiron]

^ looks like a great article just skimmed it going to have to do a full read though

 

[bigguyn10ec]

If you are protracted or internally rotated at your glenohumeral joint you could be suffering a shoulder impingement and/or subacromial bursitis. Where exactly is the pain felt and does it occur during any other exercises (ie. during GH abduction, extension, flexion, external or internal rotation)? Like organicshadow had said your posture has a lot to do with this. Perform this test, this is for shoulder impingement. Place the hand of the affected shoulder across your body and on the unaffected shoulder. Keep the palm firmly in contact with your shoulder then raise your elbow to your nose without flexing your neck to assist in contact. If pain is experienced at any point, do not push through it, or the test can not be completed it is a pretty good indication of shoulder impingement and you may want to seek the help of a professional. the forum wont let me pos the picture yet but if you google: Elbow raise shoulder impingement test, the first picture is a good representation.

Great post. I can do this but Its like I cant get my shoulder to work right. Like My muscles are confused. It dont hurt, just like it dont want to work. Whats that mean?

 

[rhino67jg]

Thats what happened to me. Went for mri & found out i have arthritis.. I used to do dumbell presses with 85's, now i have to use lighter weight on machine press.

 

[NYiron]

Great post. I can do this but Its like I cant get my shoulder to work right. Like My muscles are confused. It dont hurt, just like it dont want to work. Whats that mean?

That could mean a number of things but i would need to see the movement to better analyze what is going on.

 

[OrganicShadow]

That article is awesome, thanks rodja. Not as much whining as usually seen in T-Nation articles too.

bigguy brings up a valid point: when going heavy (which at this point you should not be) limit yourself to the 90 degree mark and dont dig too deep.

I dont think I fully understand how to do that test NYiron, i get what your trying to achieve but im just not seeing it right away.

 

[NYiron]

That article is awesome, thanks rodja. Not as much whining as usually seen in T-Nation articles too.

bigguy brings up a valid point: when going heavy (which at this point you should not be) limit yourself to the 90 degree mark and dont dig too deep.

I dont think I fully understand how to do that test NYiron, i get what your trying to achieve but im just not seeing it right away.

The test is actually demonstrated and used as a diagnostic in the article. Its the second shoulder mobility test seen in the beginning of the article.

 

[OrganicShadow]

OH OK I get it. And I can do it, nice.

 

[ZiR RED]

If you are protracted or internally rotated at your glenohumeral joint you could be suffering a shoulder impingement and/or subacromial bursitis. Where exactly is the pain felt and does it occur during any other exercises (ie. during GH abduction, extension, flexion, external or internal rotation)? Like organicshadow had said your posture has a lot to do with this. Perform this test, this is for shoulder impingement. Place the hand of the affected shoulder across your body and on the unaffected shoulder. Keep the palm firmly in contact with your shoulder then raise your elbow to your nose without flexing your neck to assist in contact. If pain is experienced at any point, do not push through it, or the test can not be completed it is a pretty good indication of shoulder impingement and you may want to seek the help of a professional. the forum wont let me pos the picture yet but if you google: Elbow raise shoulder impingement test, the first picture is a good representation.

Whats interesting, or perhaps should tell you something, is that this test for impingement mimics the range of motion used when doing upright rows. . . All the more reason NOT to do upright rows.

Br

 

[NYiron]

Whats interesting, or perhaps should tell you something, is that this test for impingement mimics the range of motion used when doing upright rows. . . All the more reason NOT to do upright rows.

Br

I have never been a fan of upright rows for this reason and a very good point to make for those reading.

 

[hyperCat]

I've basically stopped doing all overhead lifts because of impingements. Already had one subacromial decompression surgery, and it kinda sucked. As soon as I started getting symptoms in my other shoulder, I said screw it - I'm not going there again...

 

[OrganicShadow]

If I'm gonna do an upright motion it'll be some variation of the traditional upright. I may skip it altogether and go for the horizontal raise... Better peaking motion.

 

[yazan]

I forgot to check on the thread for a bit. Thx for all the info. Untried the test and I feel slight pain at the end of the motion. I guess I should stop the overhead lifts for now. Again thx for the help

 

[bigguyn10ec]

dang as my shoulder is getting better, I do flat bench and bam.. messed up again.. !!! :banghead:

 

[Rodja]

That article is awesome, thanks rodja. Not as much whining as usually seen in T-Nation articles too.

bigguy brings up a valid point: when going heavy (which at this point you should not be) limit yourself to the 90 degree mark and dont dig too deep.

I dont think I fully understand how to do that test NYiron, i get what your trying to achieve but im just not seeing it right away.

I would rather use just the bar and have a full ROM than do partials with a heavier weight. It gets the joint used to moving through the correct ROM and is one of the best, albeit boring, methods to rehab a movement.

dang as my shoulder is getting better, I do flat bench and bam.. messed up again.. !!! :banghead:

Where do you bring the bar on your torso? At your height, you should be aiming for the lower sternum/xyphoid process or the upper abs.

 

[bigguyn10ec]

I think I go for the nipple area. Which I guess when Im positioned correctly should be about right. ( meaning I have my lats tight chest up butt firmly on bench ect. ) If I try a more powerlifting position ( arms tucked ) I have lots of shoulder pain when doing heavy sets. If I do a more bodybuilding style I dont have as much pain but I feel it in my shoulders more.

Makes no sense to me at all. I think this is why I do DB most of the time. I just like to throw barbells in once in a while to see where my gains are at.

 

[Rodja]

I think I go for the nipple area. Which I guess when Im positioned correctly should be about right. ( meaning I have my lats tight chest up butt firmly on bench ect. ) If I try a more powerlifting position ( arms tucked ) I have lots of shoulder pain when doing heavy sets. If I do a more bodybuilding style I dont have as much pain but I feel it in my shoulders more.

Makes no sense to me at all. I think this is why I do DB most of the time. I just like to throw barbells in once in a while to see where my gains are at.

Can you post up a video? Nipple area is going to be too high, especially when you have pre-existing shoulder issues.

 

[bomcgraw]

If you are protracted or internally rotated at your glenohumeral joint you could be suffering a shoulder impingement and/or subacromial bursitis. Where exactly is the pain felt and does it occur during any other exercises (ie. during GH abduction, extension, flexion, external or internal rotation)? Like organicshadow had said your posture has a lot to do with this. Perform this test, this is for shoulder impingement. Place the hand of the affected shoulder across your body and on the unaffected shoulder. Keep the palm firmly in contact with your shoulder then raise your elbow to your nose without flexing your neck to assist in contact. If pain is experienced at any point, do not push through it, or the test can not be completed it is a pretty good indication of shoulder impingement and you may want to seek the help of a professional. the forum wont let me pos the picture yet but if you google: Elbow raise shoulder impingement test, the first picture is a good representation.

Both of my shoulders hurt when I tried that test. I get pain in my shoulders all the time lifting but it's always during some kind of press so I was thinking my back (which is lagging compared to the chest) was the cause. I've been focusing more on rotator cuff exercises and it's helped but not eliminated it. Does this mean I need an MRI?

 

[Rodja]

Both of my shoulders hurt when I tried that test. I get pain in my shoulders all the time lifting but it's always during some kind of press so I was thinking my back (which is lagging compared to the chest) was the cause. I've been focusing more on rotator cuff exercises and it's helped but not eliminated it. Does this mean I need an MRI?

It means you're still imbalanced. This is not something that happens overnight and you should expect somewhere between 3-6 months time to correct your postural imbalance.

 

[bomcgraw]

It means you're still imbalanced. This is not something that happens overnight and you should expect somewhere between 3-6 months time to correct your postural imbalance.

Oh ok. I've only been working on correcting it for about 4 weeks now. I figured it would take a while. Thanks for the help.

 

[Rodja]

Oh ok. I've only been working on correcting it for about 4 weeks now. I figured it would take a while. Thanks for the help.

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/rrective-methods-for-common-postural-deviations-the-shoulder/

 

[Torobestia]

I think I go for the nipple area. Which I guess when Im positioned correctly should be about right. ( meaning I have my lats tight chest up butt firmly on bench ect. ) If I try a more powerlifting position ( arms tucked ) I have lots of shoulder pain when doing heavy sets. If I do a more bodybuilding style I dont have as much pain but I feel it in my shoulders more.

Makes no sense to me at all. I think this is why I do DB most of the time. I just like to throw barbells in once in a while to see where my gains are at.

Bodybuilding or powerlifting, your shoulder blades should always be pinched together throughout the movement, in a sense opening up your chest. If you don't do this, benching, especially with a barbell, will load the weight on the shoulders instead of the chest.

Next, where the bar touches depends on your grip. Technically, your elbows should always be tucked (pointing in as opposed to pointing out), although it's ok if they're slightly flared at the top. If you grip the bar close, the bar should definitely be hitting somewhere clearly below your sternum and around your upper abs. If you have a really wide grip (index on rings), the bar should probably hit around the bottom of your pecs, like where the bottom of your pecs meet the rib cage muscles. The only time the bar should hit your nipples is if you are using an ultra wide grip, like index inches outside the rings of the bar. Make sure to press the bar in as straight of a line as possible, as pressing in a J or C motion involves more shoulder abduction (as does too wide of a grip).

 

[bomcgraw]

Awesome article! Thanks a ton Rodja

 

[bomcgraw]

Ok after reading this thread and that article and everything, I looked at my routine again and made some drastic changes to correct the imbalance of my chest and back. Then, last night around 3am, I woke up in bed laying on my back with my hands behind my head. As I lowered my arms to my sides something just to the left of my spine in my mid back snapped loudly and has hurt badly ever since. I can barely use my left arm, look up, or bend my neck to the left. It's not as intense as it was last night now, but it still hurts. What did I do?

 

[BLaQz]

Both of my shoulders hurt when I tried that test. I get pain in my shoulders all the time lifting but it's always during some kind of press so I was thinking my back (which is lagging compared to the chest) was the cause. I've been focusing more on rotator cuff exercises and it's helped but not eliminated it. Does this mean I need an MRI?

Out of curiosity do u do any basic pushups & also various rows?

 

[bigguyn10ec]

Ok after reading this thread and that article and everything, I looked at my routine again and made some drastic changes to correct the imbalance of my chest and back. Then, last night around 3am, I woke up in bed laying on my back with my hands behind my head. As I lowered my arms to my sides something just to the left of my spine in my mid back snapped loudly and has hurt badly ever since. I can barely use my left arm, look up, or bend my neck to the left. It's not as intense as it was last night now, but it still hurts. What did I do?

Foo'ed it up. Lol. Not sure but it sucks

 

[BLaQz]

Ok after reading this thread and that article and everything, I looked at my routine again and made some drastic changes to correct the imbalance of my chest and back. Then, last night around 3am, I woke up in bed laying on my back with my hands behind my head. As I lowered my arms to my sides something just to the left of my spine in my mid back snapped loudly and has hurt badly ever since. I can barely use my left arm, look up, or bend my neck to the left. It's not as intense as it was last night now, but it still hurts. What did I do?

That's messed up... What back exercises do u do? Especially any bentover rows etc?

 

[bomcgraw]

Face pulls with bands, seated cable rows, pull ups/chin ups, hyper extensions, kettle bell swings(with a cement block), prone rows, and I think thats it. I quit training everything for a week and a half and have now cut my chest and anterior delt training in half, and added some back work into every day and it seems to be helping.

 

[BLaQz]

Face pulls with bands, seated cable rows, pull ups/chin ups, hyper extensions, kettle bell swings(with a cement block), prone rows, and I think thats it. I quit training everything for a week and a half and have now cut my chest and anterior delt training in half, and added some back work into every day and it seems to be helping.

Sounds good... Your workouts need to be balanced... Every "push" exercise must be accompanied by a "pull" exercise... How's your posture now?

 

[bomcgraw]

My backs straight and shoulders back. There is too much internal rotation of the humorus tho.

 

[BLaQz]

My backs straight and shoulders back. There is too much internal rotation of the humorus tho.

Do you do normal push-ups as well as bench etc? Sounds Luke you need to strengthen your stabilize muscles around your scapulas (S.I.T.S) for one... Keep up the back work & try focus on your strengthening your traps & rhomboids (muscle joining the shoulder blades)... Do you have a trainer that can assist you with some stretching? Your chest may be a bit tight... Bentover shoulder flys can work the rhomboids well...

 

[bomcgraw]

I do a few pushup variations since I'm in the army reserve and pushups are part of the pt test. I workout at home and don't have free weights yet but I do front presses on a machine I have. I cut my number of sets for each chest workout I do in half. I'm working on getting dumbbells so I can add bent over flies to my routine.

 

[BLaQz]

I do a few pushup variations since I'm in the army reserve and pushups are part of the pt test. I workout at home and don't have free weights yet but I do front presses on a machine I have. I cut my number of sets for each chest workout I do in half. I'm working on getting dumbbells so I can add bent over flies to my routine.

I think a combination of tightening your back & stretching your chest to increase your ROM will do you a lot of good... You should notice your humorous rotate externally if you bring your shoulder blades together while standing relaxed... If you do notice that happen, then the traps & rhomboids work will pay off...

 

[BLaQz]

I do a few pushup variations since I'm in the army reserve and pushups are part of the pt test. I workout at home and don't have free weights yet but I do front presses on a machine I have. I cut my number of sets for each chest workout I do in half. I'm working on getting dumbbells so I can add bent over flies to my routine.

I think a combination of tightening your back & stretching your chest to increase your ROM will do you a lot of good... You should notice your humorous rotate externally if you bring your shoulder blades together while standing relaxed... If you do notice that happen, then the traps & rhomboids work will pay off...

 

[BLaQz]

I think a combination of tightening your back & stretching your chest to increase your ROM will do you a lot of good... You should notice your humorous rotate externally if you bring your shoulder blades together while standing relaxed... If you do notice that happen, then the traps & rhomboids work will pay off...

*Strengthening, not tightening...

 

[bomcgraw]

Thanks a lot. I'll keep workin on it.

 

[BLaQz]

Thanks a lot. I'll keep workin on it.

No problems... Be sure to update me with your progress...

JD

 

[bomcgraw]

I've been focusin real hard on keepin my shoulder blades together and stepped up the intensity of my back workouts and it seems to be helping. All the pain is gone and I feel like my strength is improving. I've still got a lot of work to do but I'm gettin there.

 

[BLaQz]

I've been focusin real hard on keepin my shoulder blades together and stepped up the intensity of my back workouts and it seems to be helping. All the pain is gone and I feel like my strength is improving. I've still got a lot of work to do but I'm gettin there.

That's awesome to hear... Pain gone, strength gains... Sounds like it's all heading in the right direction for you...

 

[OrganicShadow]

That's awesome to hear... Pain gone, strength gains... Sounds like it's all heading in the right direction for you...

Second the motion. Glad its picking up well, no pun intended.

 

[The Storm16]

Great post. I can do this but Its like I cant get my shoulder to work right. Like My muscles are confused. It dont hurt, just like it dont want to work. Whats that mean?

I literally went to see a specialist 2 days ago with a very similar problem.

Take 4 weeks and do very light and controlled rotator cuff exercises. Avoid presses and overhead movements for a couple weeks and then try some push ups (all the way up until you protract your scapulae).

If you can't press after these four weeks there are two potential issues: 1) you have rotator tendonitis that just needs more time to heal/a cortisone shot to aid in rehab. Option 2 is worse, you could have a lesion on your labrum (the cartilage of the shoulder socket). What this can do is create instability in the shoulder. Instability dsnt always mean your shoulder feels like buckling but it can result in over compensation by other muscles.

Labral tears are diagnosed by MRIs w contrast dye. Im getting mine this monday. The MRI Will tell you if you need surgery or if its simply an overuse injury that needs longer to heal.

Do you ever get anterior delt pain? When your shoulder starts to hurt does it feel like a hot swollen ache? Do you lose strength in that shoulder if you try to push through it?

 

[bomcgraw]

I literally went to see a specialist 2 days ago with a very similar problem.

Take 4 weeks and do very light and controlled rotator cuff exercises. Avoid presses and overhead movements for a couple weeks and then try some push ups (all the way up until you protract your scapulae).

If you can't press after these four weeks there are two potential issues: 1) you have rotator tendonitis that just needs more time to heal/a cortisone shot to aid in rehab. Option 2 is worse, you could have a lesion on your labrum (the cartilage of the shoulder socket). What this can do is create instability in the shoulder. Instability dsnt always mean your shoulder feels like buckling but it can result in over compensation by other muscles.

Labral tears are diagnosed by MRIs w contrast dye. Im getting mine this monday. The MRI Will tell you if you need surgery or if its simply an overuse injury that needs longer to heal.

Do you ever get anterior delt pain? When your shoulder starts to hurt does it feel like a hot swollen ache? Do you lose strength in that shoulder if you try to push through it?

Whenever it hurts it's a sharp pain but doesn't affect strength at all as long as I'm willing to push through it. The pain is only just to the left of my spine around mid shoulder blade. I want to get a test of some kind to see what the problem is but I have metal in my body so I can't get an MRI. But, I have done almost nothing but back and leg work for the last few weeks and the pain is not as bad.

 

[The Storm16]

Whenever it hurts it's a sharp pain but doesn't affect strength at all as long as I'm willing to push through it. The pain is only just to the left of my spine around mid shoulder blade. I want to get a test of some kind to see what the problem is but I have metal in my body so I can't get an MRI. But, I have done almost nothing but back and leg work for the last few weeks and the pain is not as bad.

Ok so what you're describing is different from what the other guy had. What I just said above about mri and stuff dsnt rly apply to you. Mid shoulder next to spine is probably not anything to do with your labrum or bursa or rotator cuff(at least not directly). I'd guess some kind of soft tissue injury, which is what it sounds like if it's getting better w rest.

 

[BLaQz]

I've been focusin real hard on keepin my shoulder blades together and stepped up the intensity of my back workouts and it seems to be helping. All the pain is gone and I feel like my strength is improving. I've still got a lot of work to do but I'm gettin there.

Progress report?

JD

 

[bomcgraw]

Well things got crazy at work and home so I didn get to lift very much this past week but I haven't had any pain except one time when I tried to catch a falling piece of metal at work, but I think that would've hurt anyone's shoulder because of the odd angle and weight. Also, because I've increased my cardio I have decreased weight training frequency, but have increased the intensity and am still seeing small gains. So far, it looks like te trouble is past as long as I don't do anything stupid.