German Volume Training..anybody tried it? Results?

[JoeySon]

Just what the title says, I've done alot of research on a new routine and have decided on GVT. I'm really excited to start it and I was wondering if anybody has had luck with it? Also, I read that it is more of a "shocker" routine and should not be run for more than 4-6 week consecutively. Any truth to this?

Also any tips or advice from somebody who's run it before would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[TomGreen]

let me know how it works for you man. i have always been skeptical of volume training, but never known anyone to straight up do it. Some say it will pack on mass and others say its overtraining and not going to failure wont prodice good results. is your routine 10x10 1 exercise per body part? but ya keep me posted

 

[JoeySon]

let me know how it works for you man. i have always been skeptical of volume training, but never known anyone to straight up do it. Some say it will pack on mass and others say its overtraining and not going to failure wont prodice good results. is your routine 10x10 1 exercise per body part? but ya keep me posted

Yea I'm going the 10x10 but I'm a little confused on the supersets

 

[fueledpassion]

It's amazing and works like something fierce. The question is not whether it works but if you can handle it. I cannot.

 

[TomGreen]

Yea I'm going the 10x10 but I'm a little confused on the supersets

what are you suppossed to superset?

 

[T-Bone]

I looked for a book on it on amazon but most were extremely dated. Charles Poliquin created it. I read This article about it from the man himself. Check it out, should be helpful.

 

[Bolanrox]

ive used it.

very good gains in strength decent muscle gain, and great imo to keep it if you are cutting.

It will wipe you out for sure. I would say maybe do it only for a month or two and see what you think

Plently of diffrent 3 day full body splits to choose from if GVT doesnt work out for you.

 

[JoeySon]

ive used it.

very good gains in strength decent muscle gain, and great imo to keep it if you are cutting.

It will wipe you out for sure. I would say maybe do it only for a month or two and see what you think

Plently of diffrent 3 day full body splits to choose from if GVT doesnt work out for you.

Yea I only plan on running it for 4 or 5 weeks then switching to a more standard hypertrophy program

 

[TomGreen]

are you planning on doing the gvt on your pro mag cycle

 

[Bolanrox]

Yea I only plan on running it for 4 or 5 weeks then switching to a more standard hypertrophy program

I would try it at least a full 2 months. then switch it up to something like Heavy Medium Light (with 20 rep squats) or some other 3 day full body

 

[JoeySon]

are you planning on doing the gvt on your pro mag cycle

Yes it's actually exactly what I'm doing lol that's the reason I don't want to run it more than 6 weeks cause many people have told me to not lift heavy and lower my intensity for pct to allow my body to recover

 

[TomGreen]

Yes it's actually exactly what I'm doing lol that's the reason I don't want to run it more than 6 weeks cause many people have told me to not lift heavy and lower my intensity for pct to allow my body to recover

hmmm, im not sure. i feel like youd want to keep pushing yourself hard through pct to keep gains, but i havent thought about the health consequences, maybe someone can say. i will be getting my pmag on monday! keep up posted on your gains

 

[chedapalooza]

Very interested in this as well. I did a Vince Gironda style 8x8 workout.. Only 30 seconds rest between sets.. Got very big and lean off it in 3 weeks.. Then burnt out.

10x10 seems good but I like vRiety in lifts or I feel like I'm not hitting the muscle from every angle.. If you settle on a routine, please post it up here?

Ideally I'd like to do something like:

Superset 10x10 exercises
Then accessory work

 

[JoeySon]

Very interested in this as well. I did a Vince Gironda style 8x8 workout.. Only 30 seconds rest between sets.. Got very big and lean off it in 3 weeks.. Then burnt out.

10x10 seems good but I like vRiety in lifts or I feel like I'm not hitting the muscle from every angle.. If you settle on a routine, please post it up here?

Ideally I'd like to do something like:

Superset 10x10 exercises
Then accessory work

I've run it for a week and really seem to like it. Although there does seem to be confusion on what polquin actually meant as a superset. Some say it's not really a superset and u rest the 60 secs between your sets and some say you do normal supersets. Ive seen countless people take both sides. I decided to superset normally and take the 90 sec rest periods. I've run this cycle twice (tweaked it a little):

Chest/shoulder/tris: (superset the first two)

Decline bench 10x10
Overhead shoulder press 10x10
Tricep rope pulldown 10x10

Legs: (superset first 2)

Squats 10x10
Lying hamstring curls 10x10
Calf press's 10x10

Back/biceps: (superset first 2)

Pulldowns 10x10
Barbell curls 10x10
Trap pulls 10x10

 

[JoeySon]

Also, I may add another day or just add more volume to the days I'm already doing

 

[kBrown]

Be sure to increase the weight per week.
Read this please: GVT Overview: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hst6.htm
Then review the following:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/german-volume-training.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

I know you didn't ask for specific info.
Nor have done GVT specifically but I am doing volume for the next 5 weeks.

I hope you find some interesting info

 

[chedapalooza]

I've run it for a week and really seem to like it. Although there does seem to be confusion on what polquin actually meant as a superset. Some say it's not really a superset and u rest the 60 secs between your sets and some say you do normal supersets. Ive seen countless people take both sides. I decided to superset normally and take the 90 sec rest periods. I've run this cycle twice (tweaked it a little):

Chest/shoulder/tris: (superset the first two)

Decline bench 10x10
Overhead shoulder press 10x10
Tricep rope pulldown 10x10

Legs: (superset first 2)

Squats 10x10
Lying hamstring curls 10x10
Calf press's 10x10

Back/biceps: (superset first 2)

Pulldowns 10x10
Barbell curls 10x10
Trap pulls 10x10

Interesting.. U find back n bis to be ok like that?

 

[Swanson52]

I was under the impression that you SS a push/pull exercise. Ex. Incline bench and barbell rows.

Either way, it's brutal. I threw up on leg day the first 3 times I did it. It helped with joint pain and hypertrophy, though. I liked it quite a bit.

But brutal.

 

[JoeySon]

Be sure to increase the weight per week.
Read this please: GVT Overview: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hst6.htm
Then review the following:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/german-volume-training.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

I know you didn't ask for specific info.
Nor have done GVT specifically but I am doing volume for the next 5 weeks.

I hope you find some interesting info

I was under the impression that you only increase the weight if you can get the full 100 reps..

 

[JoeySon]

Interesting.. U find back n bis to be ok like that?

Yea I mostly just like working tris and chest on the same day. May tweak this still, it's my first time experimenting with GVT so I'm trying to find what works for me.

 

[JoeySon]

Be sure to increase the weight per week.
Read this please: GVT Overview: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hst6.htm
Then review the following:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/german-volume-training.htm
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

I know you didn't ask for specific info.
Nor have done GVT specifically but I am doing volume for the next 5 weeks.

I hope you find some interesting info

I like the second article alot. Also, it's an interesting theory in which GVT does not necessarily focus on some of the principals of hypertrophy but most people would say that's what it's known for.

 

[tnubs]

I did GVT for chest and back for a while and my chest and lats exploded. I hit each bodypart 3 times per two weeks. The pumps are fun as hell but u can also overtrain quick.

 

[kBrown]

I was under the impression that you only increase the weight if you can get the full 100 reps..

Yes. I am sorry if I did not make that clear--however there are modifications. I am no GVT expert, hence the articles attached.
But between Week 1 - to Week 3 you had better be able to increase the weight by then.

even when doing 100 reps you do not want to stagnate...doing the same thing week after week will not produce results.

 

[JoeySon]

I did GVT for chest and back for a while and my chest and lats exploded. I hit each bodypart 3 times per two weeks. The pumps are fun as hell but u can also overtrain quick.

You mind laying out your routine? I'm still tweaking mine. I switched shoulders to chest day and put back with biceps because when I did it the traditional way my arms were so roasted I felt I couldn't get a proper lift in with chest and back.

 

[JoeySon]

Yes. I am sorry if I did not make that clear--however there are modifications. I am no GVT expert, hence the articles attached.
But between Week 1 - to Week 3 you had better be able to increase the weight by then.

even when doing 100 reps you do not want to stagnate...doing the same thing week after week will not produce results.

Yea I hear ya, you almost have to push the weights up anyways even if your not getting 100 reps

 

[kBrown]

You mind laying out your routine? I'm still tweaking mine. I switched shoulders to chest day and put back with biceps because when I did it the traditional way my arms were so roasted I felt I couldn't get a proper lift in with chest and back.

Don't mean to impose, you did not ask me but...
Shoulders and chest should not be performed on the same day. Your muscles will be too fatigued and you won't be able to work the muscle to its potential and therefore will not stimulate as much growth.

 

[kBrown]

Yea I hear ya, you almost have to push the weights up anyways even if your not getting 100 reps

Nothing wrong with a forced rep, getting spotted, or sacrificing form (safely) to perform an extra rep.
By safe sacrifice I will give an example before I get Roasted:
Doing standing shoulder press you do 8 reps... It is perfectly okay to bend the knees a bit and incorporate your legs, exploding upwards to get the extra two reps.

In fact some people do explosive standing shoulder presses as a workout in itself, it incorporates more muscles and is a great workout, you will also be able to get more weight up--just make sure you concentrate on the negative so you control it coming back down.

 

[JoeySon]

Don't mean to impose, you did not ask me but...
Shoulders and chest should not be performed on the same day. Your muscles will be too fatigued and you won't be able to work the muscle to its potential and therefore will not stimulate as much growth.

No it's cool, like I said I'm still messing around with it. I seem to be able get a good lift but I may go back to the original layout.

 

[kBrown]

No it's cool, like I said I'm still messing around with it. I seem to be able get a good lift but I may go back to the original layout.

I don't have a problem with back + biceps (though many would argue against it because depending on what you do for back it incorporates a lot of bicep).
But, Shoulder + Chest is bad news bears. I would recommend having them 2-3 days apart. For example, Monday - Thursday.

 

[JoeySon]

I don't have a problem with back + biceps (though many would argue against it because depending on what you do for back it incorporates a lot of bicep).
But, Shoulder + Chest is bad news bears. I would recommend having them 2-3 days apart. For example, Monday - Thursday.

Well wouldn't these two essentially be a push/pull design?

 

[kBrown]

Well wouldn't these two essentially be a push/pull design?

I don't organize my workouts by push / pull

Check out my training log in sign

 

[tnubs]

You mind laying out your routine? I'm still tweaking mine. I switched shoulders to chest day and put back with biceps because when I did it the traditional way my arms were so roasted I felt I couldn't get a proper lift in with chest and back.

Agree with with the guy above. With GVT u cant mix shoulders and chest the same day. U will be way too burnt out. But what i did was i had an A and a B workout that alternated and i would lift monday, wed, and fri only. So every 2weeks i hit workout A 3 times and the same with B. The first workout was incline BB bench for 10x10 then like one set of flies and 2 sets of heavy triceps. Usually after the incline bench my triceps were pumped to shiz anyways. I would do a quick set or 2 of lateral raises since i didnt even bother to try to include a true shoulder day. Workout B was 10x10 underhand lat pulldown and then 2 sets of rows and curls. Then one set of 20 rep squat. And thats it. I focused mostly on the two 10x10 lifts trying to add weight and usually u adapt quick so adding weight is easy the first several weeks. Eat as much as u can shove down and u will explode. Would work well with the gallon of milk a day method.

 

[bdcc]

I've run it for a week and really seem to like it. Although there does seem to be confusion on what polquin actually meant as a superset. Some say it's not really a superset and u rest the 60 secs between your sets and some say you do normal supersets. Ive seen countless people take both sides. I decided to superset normally and take the 90 sec rest periods. I've run this cycle twice (tweaked it a little):

Chest/shoulder/tris: (superset the first two)

Decline bench 10x10
Overhead shoulder press 10x10
Tricep rope pulldown 10x10

Legs: (superset first 2)

Squats 10x10
Lying hamstring curls 10x10
Calf press's 10x10

Back/biceps: (superset first 2)

Pulldowns 10x10
Barbell curls 10x10
Trap pulls 10x10

I was under the impression that you only increase the weight if you can get the full 100 reps..

This is not GVT. There is a reason for the antagonistic muscle pairing.

GVT is supposed to be 10 x 10 of antagonistic parts as a "superset" i.e. alternating exercises, except you do take rest, not supersetting immediately. Then accessory exercises on the end.

Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps
Bench press x 10 reps
Pull Ups x 10 reps

This is how the sequence should look.

Yea I hear ya, you almost have to push the weights up anyways even if your not getting 100 reps

No, the weight progression is not linear, it is step loading i.e. you may have to stick with the same weight for 2 or 3 workouts before increasing it.

Don't mean to impose, you did not ask me but...
Shoulders and chest should not be performed on the same day. Your muscles will be too fatigued and you won't be able to work the muscle to its potential and therefore will not stimulate as much growth.

This is correct.

I don't have a problem with back + biceps (though many would argue against it because depending on what you do for back it incorporates a lot of bicep).
But, Shoulder + Chest is bad news bears. I would recommend having them 2-3 days apart. For example, Monday - Thursday.

Back and biceps are still a no go. Although I understand the reasoning behind it remember that GVT uses antagonistic pairing i.e. chest and back.

Changing the split has drastic effects elsewhere because it changes the frequency of training as well as the rest periods between training the same muscle again. There is a reason he uses that split, it isn't open to alteration as much as people think.

Charles himself gives a good analogy on GVT. He said so many people try and improve it by altering one of the parameters but by changing the formula it is like making apple pie with blueberries instead of applies. They may look the same but yours isn't GVT anymore.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. I am a PICP2 coach (level 3 in May), Biosignature 2 and PIMST so have done enough of his courses to remember GVT- they drum it into us!

Ben

 

[kBrown]

:approve:

 

[JoeySon]

Well said bdcc, it's looking more and more as if I should just go back to the original split..so it is true that you rest between sets and do not actually superset?

 

[chedapalooza]

Well said bdcc, it's looking more and more as if I should just go back to the original split..so it is true that you rest between sets and do not actually superset?

True.
Ex1
Rest
Ex2
Rest
Ex1
Rest so on

More so like alternating ..

I would be curious though, Ben, for increasing fat loss ... COULD one minimize rest periods to say 30 seconds.. Or superset no rest and only rest after a pair is completed? Personally, my conditioning is good enough to superset no rest.. Idk about all ten, but at least 5-7

 

[bdcc]

Length of rest will influence muscle fibre recruitment I.e. a strength programme will stop being 2B glycolytic fibres if your rest periods are short, even if the reps are low.

 

[stankyleg]

Subbed for knowledge from the British Kat.

 

[JoeySon]

Length of rest will influence muscle fibre recruitment I.e. a strength programme will stop being 2B glycolytic fibres if your rest periods are short, even if the reps are low.

What exactly does this mean? Sorry to sound like a novice but when it comes to the science aspect of this I have a lot to learn.