Best Prohormone for Muscle Growth

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

I have been doing some searching on the forum and there seems to be tons of different opinions on this. Is there a general consensus of what is typically the best on average? I am starting a bulk this week.

My diet currently consists of 2 poounds of steak everyday. Veggies and will be adding 2 cups of rice/day. I am 177 lbs, 5'11".

Objective: I would like to get to 195 lbs, but not turn into a butter ball in the process. I have seriously considered PED's but they are hard to get a hold of. Figured a prohormone or a stack could be the ticket.

I heard some speak of superdrol, liquid labs pr, etc. It seems that some are for bulking and others for cutting. Would def like to achive that full look between workouts and put on noticeable size.

Thanks for the help.

 

[musclemaker]

The best legal bulking prohormone is 1-Andro. The only product on the market that provides the proper dosage of 1-Andro (330mg a day) is Super Mandro.

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/super-mandro-by-hard-rock-supplements

With any PH you are going to want to stack it with a test base, most commonly people will stack it with 4-Andro which converts to testosterone. Andro the Giant is also the only product on the market that provides you with 330mg of 4-Andro.

Here is a stack with those products: https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/mandro-the-giant-stack

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Thanks for the help! and when you say test base you mean like a test booster?

 

[TheSuppGuy]

I'm not sure it's very smart to do a thing like this for you. Your bench is 160. That's less than your bodyweight. And this ia going to surpress you so if this is your way of getting size, you wont get back to where you are now... How long have u been working out? How old are you?

 

[ValiantThor08]

PheraPlex. It is banned, but you can still find. Extremely anabolic. Provides euphoria. Amazing pumps. Will probably enlarge heart.

 

[jameschoi]

PheraPlex. It is banned, but you can still find. Extremely anabolic. Provides euphoria. Amazing pumps. Will probably enlarge heart.

Enlarging the heart, how bad is that?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Enlarging the heart, how bad is that?

Well, it isn't reversible. I'm not sure how many cycles it would take to do that, but having an enlarged heart due to anabolics will probably result in a shorter life span.

 

[ValiantThor08]

And continued usage of multiple steroid compounds can enlarge the heart as well, so it is not just a pheraplex issue.

 

[thebigt]

And continued usage of multiple steroid compounds can enlarge the heart as well, so it is not just a pheraplex issue.

if it irreversibly enlarged a certain other organ it would be very popular and hard to find......just sayin:jester:

 

[ValiantThor08]

if it irreversibly enlarged a certain other organ it would be very popular and hard to find......just sayin:jester:

Would always be sold out.

 

[thebigt]

Would always be sold out.

big pharma...for sure!!!

 

[Pinggolfee96]

I have been doing some searching on the forum and there seems to be tons of different opinions on this. Is there a general consensus of what is typically the best on average? I am starting a bulk this week.

My diet currently consists of 2 poounds of steak everyday. Veggies and will be adding 2 cups of rice/day. I am 177 lbs, 5'11".

Objective: I would like to get to 195 lbs, but not turn into a butter ball in the process. I have seriously considered PED's but they are hard to get a hold of. Figured a prohormone or a stack could be the ticket.

I heard some speak of superdrol, liquid labs pr, etc. It seems that some are for bulking and others for cutting. Would def like to achive that full look between workouts and put on noticeable size.

Thanks for the help.

to be honest, you seem like you just lack general knowledge in this whole area based off what you're saying. why don't you ask questions about your training or nutrition considering you said 2lbs of steak and some rice and veggies everyday which means absolutely nothing....
you also want to gain 20lbs without getting fat, which, if you've been training that could take years to do optimally. your body composition is dependent upon your energy intake and expenditure ultimately. what program are you running? what are your macros? what are your goals? how long have you been training? what are your current lifts at? do you want strength or hypertrophy? these are all questions you should be able to answer before asking about PEDS....

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Pinggolfee96 many great points. I understand that apart of gaining muscle is gaining fat. What I meant is that I do not want to bulk improperly and gain un-necessary fat. Asking about pro-hormoines was just an exploratory inquiry. You know to learn, that's all. I am currently running greyskull, which now numerous people have trashed. I like it the only issue is that it doesn't seem to have enough variations of excerises to hit all of the different muscle strands in the muscle groups being exercised (but maybe I'm wrong). Currently I can deadlist 300 lbs, Squat 150 (progressively moving up and never did them as much as I was supposed to) Overhead BB press 100, BP 160 LBs. I have had difficulty getting my mind-muscle connection with my left pec for some reason. I watched and focused obssessivley on my form when doing excersises that focus or use those muscles. I hate to sound cliche but I would like to train for strength and hypertrophy but if I had to choose I would opt for hypertrophy for the time being. In regards to macros: I have been staying away from carbs after I attempted to bulk 6 months ago and put on too much wait in the mid-section and not enough in the areas that I was training. So I mind-f'd myself unfortunately. I am going to start inserting white rice back in at 3 cups a day which will me 135 grams of carbs. Stick with my protein intake of 250 grams and fat is at 65g. I know that I have to add more to this.....

 

[LeanEngineer]

Thanks for the help! and when you say test base you mean like a test booster?

For example Dermacrine would be a good test base for this stack. (https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/dermacrine-by-iconic-formulations)

 

[thebigt]

For example Dermacrine would be a good test base for this stack. (https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/dermacrine-by-iconic-formulations)

tried and true...dermacrine has been around well over 10 years with no formula change-not many other products that can say that!!!

 

[booneman77]

Pinggolfee96 many great points. I understand that apart of gaining muscle is gaining fat. What I meant is that I do not want to bulk improperly and gain un-necessary fat. Asking about pro-hormoines was just an exploratory inquiry. You know to learn, that's all. I am currently running greyskull, which now numerous people have trashed. I like it the only issue is that it doesn't seem to have enough variations of excerises to hit all of the different muscle strands in the muscle groups being exercised (but maybe I'm wrong). Currently I can deadlist 300 lbs, Squat 150 (progressively moving up and never did them as much as I was supposed to) Overhead BB press 100, BP 160 LBs. I have had difficulty getting my mind-muscle connection with my left pec for some reason. I watched and focused obssessivley on my form when doing excersises that focus or use those muscles. I hate to sound cliche but I would like to train for strength and hypertrophy but if I had to choose I would opt for hypertrophy for the time being. In regards to macros: I have been staying away from carbs after I attempted to bulk 6 months ago and put on too much wait in the mid-section and not enough in the areas that I was training. So I mind-f'd myself unfortunately. I am going to start inserting white rice back in at 3 cups a day which will me 135 grams of carbs. Stick with my protein intake of 250 grams and fat is at 65g. I know that I have to add more to this.....

You're def asking the right questions, but you certainly need to go quite a long way naturally before you should try anything anabolic. Those lift numbers are painfully pedestrian (also, you never stated age which is a BIG factor).

IMO you should start with a very basic strength focused program like a 5x5 or Starting strength and build a solid foundation of strength. Size will come natrually (to a certain extent) with that base of strength.

Once you have hit some plateaus, then you can move up. If you "mentally" need somehting to keep the hypertrophy portion, try a PHAT or PHUL style of training that will give you the best of both strength and size training.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Age 32, thank you very much for the assistance gentlemen. I agree my "strength" is rather pedestrian at this point and that is what I get for not having a proper training regimen for nearly the whole time. Over the past 4-5 months I took the start bodyweight program implemented it and added DB excerises to be paired with the bodyweight excerises comprable. I read Greyskull LP, thought it was a solid book, workout looked legit and intuitive after explanation from the author....... Before I read the book I had no idea that there were "warm up sets" and "working sets." Obviously this makes a big difference because I was basically doing working sets of everything and nothing else. So much info out there you get lost in whirlwind of opinions. I have had numerous people recommend Starting Strength and I just looked at the PHUL. I have a garage gym so I would have to sub machine workouts for barbell or DB but that shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[booneman77]

Age 32, thank you very much for the assistance gentlemen. I agree my "strength" is rather pedestrian at this point and that is what I get for not having a proper training regimen for nearly the whole time. Over the past 4-5 months I took the start bodyweight program implemented it and added DB excerises to be paired with the bodyweight excerises comprable. I read Greyskull LP, thought it was a solid book, workout looked legit and intuitive after explanation from the author....... Before I read the book I had no idea that there were "warm up sets" and "working sets." Obviously this makes a big difference because I was basically doing working sets of everything and nothing else. So much info out there you get lost in whirlwind of opinions. I have had numerous people recommend Starting Strength and I just looked at the PHUL. I have a garage gym so I would have to sub machine workouts for barbell or DB but that shouldn't be much of an issue.

personally I prefer db/bb anyways for building "real" strength. Machines are great accessories, but they do have limitations in that they will always have some level of isolation simply due to movement pattern restrictions.

If you tell us what you have, how many days you want to work out, and some notes on likes/dislikes, im sure we could help you whip up something simple and effective to use and you would just have to work on progression.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Thank you for the help.

I have DBs ranging from 10-50 lbs all in 5 lb increments.
Squat rack.
Bench press
I have micro-weights so I can slowly build in progression every week (something that I was not doing but will be doing from this point forward)
Deadlift bar and deadlift plates
Landmine ROW
EZ Curl Bar
Dip Belt that I can add plates to for weight pull-ups/chins and dips
KBs ranging from 25#-60#
Power Tower

My body seems to respond to weighted pulls better than using the EZ curl bar (usually doing 12-15 reps with the bar. I have had an issue with getting my right bicep to respond to the same stiumlus that my left does... Also left pectoral is in the same boat, doesn't get stimulated as easily as the right, seem to be carrying fat around my nipples that is driving me nuts.

Likes: DB BP
Weighted Chins
Over DB extensions
Military Press
Deadlift

Dislikes: Squats (I know these are a must just a b****)


I would like to work out 5 days a week. I also play hockey on Thursday and Saturday nights. Thanks again for the help!

 

[booneman77]

Thank you for the help.

I have DBs ranging from 10-50 lbs all in 5 lb increments.
Squat rack.
Bench press
I have micro-weights so I can slowly build in progression every week (something that I was not doing but will be doing from this point forward)
Deadlift bar and deadlift plates
Landmine ROW
EZ Curl Bar
Dip Belt that I can add plates to for weight pull-ups/chins and dips
KBs ranging from 25#-60#
Power Tower

My body seems to respond to weighted pulls better than using the EZ curl bar (usually doing 12-15 reps with the bar. I have had an issue with getting my right bicep to respond to the same stiumlus that my left does... Also left pectoral is in the same boat, doesn't get stimulated as easily as the right, seem to be carrying fat around my nipples that is driving me nuts.

Likes: DB BP
Weighted Chins
Over DB extensions
Military Press
Deadlift

Dislikes: Squats (I know these are a must just a b****)


I would like to work out 5 days a week. I also play hockey on Thursday and Saturday nights. Thanks again for the help!

That's a hell of a setup! you've got options for days... I think from an overall split, I would do something like this:

M - Legs Heavy
T - Push Heavy
W - Pull Heavy
R - hockey
F - Lower Hypertrophy
S - hockey
S - Upper Hypertrophy

Hockey will work well for some active recovery on your "off" days, and keeping heavy legs away from those 2 will help lessen the strength hit (as a hockey player myself, I know how taxing a hard game can be on leg day and vice versa).

For heavy days, pick 1-2 major lifts to really go balls out on (say squats/RDL, Dead/Wt Chins, Bench/OHP) and then 2-3 accessory exercises (lunge/db sldl/goblet squat, pullup/bent over bb row/db row, lateral raises/skull crusher/db fly). I would keep the majors in the 3-6 rep range (you can build a progression scheme) and the accessories in the 5-8 range.

Same general concept for hyper days, just with high rep ranges and slightly diff exercises.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Got it. Should I be doing warm-up sets before the working sets? many things that I have read show 4 warm-up sets that gradually move up in weight. I would assume that the 3-6 heavy and 5-8 for accessories are the working sets? I am going to reiterate what you just suggested so I make sure i don't f it up:
Mon: Legs heavy - Squat 3-6 reps (working) Romanian DL 3-6 reps (working), Accessory - DB Lunge, db sldl, goblet squat) 5-8 reps (working)
Tues: Push heavy - Bench Press (barbell) 3-6 reps (working) Overhead press 3-6 reps (working) Accessory - lateral raises, skull crushers, db fly 5-8 reps (working)
Wed: Pull heavy - Deadlift, Weighted Chins both 3-6 reps (working) Accessory - Pull Ups , barbell row incline bench, DB Row 5-8 reps (working)
Thursday - Hockey - still ok to do laddered Chin Ups and push ups?
Friday - Lower hypertrophy - Front Squat 3 x 8-12, Barbell Calf raise 3x12-16 reps, Leg extension 3 x 12-16 reps, barbell Lunge 3 x 8-12, DB Step-Ups 3 x 8-12
Saturday - Hockey
Sunday - Upper Hypertrophy - Incline BP 4 x 8-12, EZ Curl 4 x 8-12, DB Fly 4 x 8-12, Lying tricep extension 4 x 8-12 , Chins to fail x 3

I will be adding 2.5# to push and pull upper body excerises and 5# to lower body (squat DL) every week. Once I hit a plateau I will reduce the weight by 10% and work towards breaking plateau. Thoughts?

 

[booneman77]

Got it. Should I be doing warm-up sets before the working sets? many things that I have read show 4 warm-up sets that gradually move up in weight. I would assume that the 3-6 heavy and 5-8 for accessories are the working sets? I am going to reiterate what you just suggested so I make sure i don't f it up:
Mon: Legs heavy - Squat 3-6 reps (working) Romanian DL 3-6 reps (working), Accessory - DB Lunge, db sldl, goblet squat) 5-8 reps (working)
Tues: Push heavy - Bench Press (barbell) 3-6 reps (working) Overhead press 3-6 reps (working) Accessory - lateral raises, skull crushers, db fly 5-8 reps (working)
Wed: Pull heavy - Deadlift, Weighted Chins both 3-6 reps (working) Accessory - Pull Ups , barbell row incline bench, DB Row 5-8 reps (working)
Thursday - Hockey - still ok to do laddered Chin Ups and push ups?
Friday - Lower hypertrophy - Front Squat 3 x 8-12, Barbell Calf raise 3x12-16 reps, Leg extension 3 x 12-16 reps, barbell Lunge 3 x 8-12, DB Step-Ups 3 x 8-12
Saturday - Hockey
Sunday - Upper Hypertrophy - Incline BP 4 x 8-12, EZ Curl 4 x 8-12, DB Fly 4 x 8-12, Lying tricep extension 4 x 8-12 , Chins to fail x 3

I will be adding 2.5# to push and pull upper body excerises and 5# to lower body (squat DL) every week. Once I hit a plateau I will reduce the weight by 10% and work towards breaking plateau. Thoughts?

100% do some warm up sets or even just a general warmup. up to you what you think/feel is necessary as some exercises and people require more than others due to injuries or just shape/size/build.

Yep, what you have there is a pretty simple plan that should suffice. you can play with the exercises as much as you want too as I was just throwing out examples.

For progression, you can do it many ways; add weights, add reps, add sets, etc... I use some combo of all of it for mine but again, its all personal. Try some of each and pick what works/you like

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Thank you very much, I appreciate your insight. I am stoked to get going on this tonight. One last thing. This falls under diet. I have been very low carb for awhile and got really happy with where my waist is at, obviously not much in the gains dept. I eat plenty of protein a day did the calculations on calories needed to gain. I used this calculator from damn ripped dot com. After inputting all my data, 32, weight 177, 5'11", Body fat 25% Moderate intensity workouts, office job and a goal of 195 lbs it informed me that I would need to ingest 2485 calories a day to gain and would take me a year. Now I have no issue with steadily gaining weight provided that it is done the right way. calories from 1.5 lbs of steak (the minimum i take in is 1080 calories, 3 cups of white rice 618. then I have 787 calories to still fill in with smart bulking foods, need some assistanc there. Does this sound legit to you? I was thinking of starting to eat 3 cups of white rice a day (one of the cups being apart of my Post-workout meal/dinner). Thoughts? Thanks again

 

[booneman77]

Thank you very much, I appreciate your insight. I am stoked to get going on this tonight. One last thing. This falls under diet. I have been very low carb for awhile and got really happy with where my waist is at, obviously not much in the gains dept. I eat plenty of protein a day did the calculations on calories needed to gain. I used this calculator from damn ripped dot com. After inputting all my data, 32, weight 177, 5'11", Body fat 25% Moderate intensity workouts, office job and a goal of 195 lbs it informed me that I would need to ingest 2485 calories a day to gain and would take me a year. Now I have no issue with steadily gaining weight provided that it is done the right way. calories from 1.5 lbs of steak (the minimum i take in is 1080 calories, 3 cups of white rice 618. then I have 787 calories to still fill in with smart bulking foods, need some assistanc there. Does this sound legit to you? I was thinking of starting to eat 3 cups of white rice a day (one of the cups being apart of my Post-workout meal/dinner). Thoughts? Thanks again

Forget the calculator... what have you been eating and what has been happening (gaining, losing, maintaining)?

Whatever you’ve been seeing is what you should use as your baseline cuz the calcs just use generic formulas. For instance, I’m 5’10/180 and am currently gaining on 2000cals.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

I have been eating between 1.5-2 lbs of steak everyday. In addition I eat chicken, beef or pork at dinner with some veggies (never kept track of how much veggies (usually carrots and brocolli are my go-tos). I also eat cheese everyday. never really tracked my calories but since i have been eating like this I have lost a lot of the fat I carrried on my waist. before that i was trying to bulk by eating 1.5 lbs of steak and 4 cups of rice a day. it all seemed to go to right to my belly and pecs. I am extremely diligent with my diet and only "cheat" by eating 1 bag of cheese puffs 1 sunday out of each month.

 

[Farlesworth]

Before I start going through some of these multi quoted posts, the bottom line here, is you are in no way ready to reach for PEDs. I think you may have realized that but, just making sure. You're a noob novice who doesn't really know anything at all about he is doing, what works or doesn't (for yourself), or why, way too green and inexperienced to be going for anabolics. Every post you add makes it more obvious.

The good news is as a noob and a novice, you can make pretty damn rapid gains through nutrition, diet, and rest...for awhile.

Pinggolfee96 many great points. I understand that apart of gaining muscle is gaining fat. What I meant is that I do not want to bulk improperly and gain un-necessary fat. Asking about pro-hormoines was just an exploratory inquiry. You know to learn, that's all. I am currently running greyskull, which now numerous people have trashed. I like it the only issue is that it doesn't seem to have enough variations of excerises to hit all of the different muscle strands in the muscle groups being exercised (but maybe I'm wrong). Currently I can deadlist 300 lbs, Squat 150 (progressively moving up and never did them as much as I was supposed to) Overhead BB press 100, BP 160 LBs. I have had difficulty getting my mind-muscle connection with my left pec for some reason. I watched and focused obssessivley on my form when doing excersises that focus or use those muscles. I hate to sound cliche but I would like to train for strength and hypertrophy but if I had to choose I would opt for hypertrophy for the time being. In regards to macros: I have been staying away from carbs after I attempted to bulk 6 months ago and put on too much wait in the mid-section and not enough in the areas that I was training. So I mind-f'd myself unfortunately. I am going to start inserting white rice back in at 3 cups a day which will me 135 grams of carbs. Stick with my protein intake of 250 grams and fat is at 65g. I know that I have to add more to this.....

Grayskull is a fine novice routine. This one?

http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/greyskull-lp/]Greyskulls LP

Strength and hypertrophy are closely related particularly as a novice. Train to get stronger and eat to grow, and you'll get both.

There's no need to stay away from carbs, hit your minimum protein and minimum fat each day and watch total calories and average weekly bodyweight gain to keep fat gains in check. You don't need that much protein either, more than a gram per lb of bodyweight is just not necessary. But people do it so if you can get your other macros it should be fine...

You are not progressed or strong enough to be worrying about something like your mind muscle connection with your left pec lol, just get your bench and your press stronger.

Thank you for the help.

I have DBs ranging from 10-50 lbs all in 5 lb increments.
Squat rack.
Bench press
I have micro-weights so I can slowly build in progression every week (something that I was not doing but will be doing from this point forward)
Deadlift bar and deadlift plates
Landmine ROW
EZ Curl Bar
Dip Belt that I can add plates to for weight pull-ups/chins and dips
KBs ranging from 25#-60#
Power Tower

My body seems to respond to weighted pulls better than using the EZ curl bar (usually doing 12-15 reps with the bar. I have had an issue with getting my right bicep to respond to the same stiumlus that my left does... Also left pectoral is in the same boat, doesn't get stimulated as easily as the right, seem to be carrying fat around my nipples that is driving me nuts.

Likes: DB BP
Weighted Chins
Over DB extensions
Military Press
Deadlift

Dislikes: Squats (I know these are a must just a b****)


I would like to work out 5 days a week. I also play hockey on Thursday and Saturday nights. Thanks again for the help!

When you say deadlift bar, what do you mean? Do you have a regular 20kg or 45 lb 7' olympic barbell to use for the squat, bench, press, etc? Those 50 lb dumbells won't get you very far on the big stuff. Again, stop worrying about feeling the same 'stimulus' in one bicep vs the other, just get stronger on everything you do while eating to grow (isolations won't go up nearly as quickly as the main compounds)

Got it. Should I be doing warm-up sets before the working sets? many things that I have read show 4 warm-up sets that gradually move up in weight. I would assume that the 3-6 heavy and 5-8 for accessories are the working sets? I am going to reiterate what you just suggested so I make sure i don't f it up:
Mon: Legs heavy - Squat 3-6 reps (working) Romanian DL 3-6 reps (working), Accessory - DB Lunge, db sldl, goblet squat) 5-8 reps (working)
Tues: Push heavy - Bench Press (barbell) 3-6 reps (working) Overhead press 3-6 reps (working) Accessory - lateral raises, skull crushers, db fly 5-8 reps (working)
Wed: Pull heavy - Deadlift, Weighted Chins both 3-6 reps (working) Accessory - Pull Ups , barbell row incline bench, DB Row 5-8 reps (working)
Thursday - Hockey - still ok to do laddered Chin Ups and push ups?
Friday - Lower hypertrophy - Front Squat 3 x 8-12, Barbell Calf raise 3x12-16 reps, Leg extension 3 x 12-16 reps, barbell Lunge 3 x 8-12, DB Step-Ups 3 x 8-12
Saturday - Hockey
Sunday - Upper Hypertrophy - Incline BP 4 x 8-12, EZ Curl 4 x 8-12, DB Fly 4 x 8-12, Lying tricep extension 4 x 8-12 , Chins to fail x 3

I will be adding 2.5# to push and pull upper body excerises and 5# to lower body (squat DL) every week. Once I hit a plateau I will reduce the weight by 10% and work towards breaking plateau. Thoughts?

This question about should you be doing warm up sets before worksets is pretty glaring, just sayin', asking about anabolics has you in way, way over your head. And yes you should warm up for just about everything. There are some exceptions you figure out with experience and learning, like after doing chin-ups you may not need to do warmup sets for bicep curls, or after doing bench press you may not need to do warmup sets for tricep extensions. Programs rarely list warmup sets, they just list working sets...if they for some reason mention warmup sets, they will say "these are warmup sets" and there shouldn't be any confusion.



https://www.andybaker.com/warm/

I have been eating between 1.5-2 lbs of steak everyday. In addition I eat chicken, beef or pork at dinner with some veggies (never kept track of how much veggies (usually carrots and brocolli are my go-tos). I also eat cheese everyday. never really tracked my calories but since i have been eating like this I have lost a lot of the fat I carrried on my waist. before that i was trying to bulk by eating 1.5 lbs of steak and 4 cups of rice a day. it all seemed to go to right to my belly and pecs. I am extremely diligent with my diet and only "cheat" by eating 1 bag of cheese puffs 1 sunday out of each month.

--->Calories and carbs/fat/protein per day and average weekly bodyweight change. <---

www.myfitnesspal.com

www.fitday.com

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Guys, he DOES NOT NEED anything that would even make you consider using PCT.

If he uses gear before getting the basic fundamentals of diet and training down, the PHs will become a crutch for him, and he’ll end up either giving up or taking more and more gear to keep progressing, as he will not have laid a solid foundation to build upon that is necessary for anyone to make real, lasting progress, naturally or not.

 

[Farlesworth]

Guys, he DOES NOT NEED anything that would even make you consider using PCT.

If he uses gear before getting the basic fundamentals of diet and training down, the PHs will become a crutch for him, and he’ll end up either giving up or taking more and more gear to keep progressing, as he will not have laid a solid foundation to build upon that is necessary for anyone to make real, lasting progress, naturally or not.

A T-nation article I recall referred to this as "steroid stupid"...or similar.

Absolutely correct.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

I really appreciate hate the further insight. It was mistake for inquiring about PED’s. The greyskull I started was this:

Greyskull LP with Greyskull Gladiator “Linebacker” Focus Monday AM: Fasted walking (20-30 min) Throughout day: Frequency Method Push-ups and Chins Burpee workout (VC 1) PM: Weight training Press 2 x 5, 1 x 5 + Weighted chins 2 x 6-8 Squat 2 x 5, 1 x 5 + Neck harness 4 x 25 Tuesday AM: Fasted walking (20-30 min) Throughout day: Frequency Method Push-ups and Chins Burpee workout (VC 1) Wednesday Throughout day: Frequency Method Push-ups and Chins Burpee workout (VC 1) PM: Weight training Bench press 2 x 5, 1 x 5 + EZ curl bar curl 2 x 10-15 Deadlift 5 + Neck harness 4 x 25 High intensity conditioning session Thursday AM: Fasted walking (20-30 min) Throughout day: Frequency Method Push-ups and Chins Burpee workout (VC 1) Friday AM: Fasted walking (20-30 min) Throughout day: Frequency Method Push-ups and Chins Burpee workout (VC 1) PM: Weight training Press 2 x 5, 1 x 5 + Weighted chins 2 x 6-8 Squat 2 x 5, 1 x 5 + Saturday Throughout day: Frequency Method Push-ups and Chins Burpee workout (VC 1) High intensity conditioning session

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

I have a rack and separate 7 ft Olympic bar for that, a separate 7 ft Olympic bar with bumper plates

 

[Pinggolfee96]

also, what youre listing as your diet doesn't help at all unless you take into account your macros, the surplus you're running, and if you're actually weighing everything out. saying "steak" could be the difference of 200-1000+ calories. id suggest looking up IIFYM just to get a general understanding of macronutrients. people think its WHAT you eat, but its more so of how much of each macro you eat accustomed to your goals. people always ask what program or gear to run during a "bulk" and don't realize you can run the same **** on a cut, because your energy intake ultimately determines whether you're bulking or cutting (anabolic state vs catabolic).

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Got just went and got my macros from your recommended site. Calories: 2031/183 G protein/201G Carbs, 55 G Fat. I have a food scale that I have been using to weigh out my steak. Also my goal is to weigh 195.

 

[justhere4comm]

I have been doing some searching on the forum and there seems to be tons of different opinions on this. Is there a general consensus of what is typically the best on average? I am starting a bulk this week.

My diet currently consists of 2 poounds of steak everyday. Veggies and will be adding 2 cups of rice/day. I am 177 lbs, 5'11".

Objective: I would like to get to 195 lbs, but not turn into a butter ball in the process. I have seriously considered PED's but they are hard to get a hold of. Figured a prohormone or a stack could be the ticket.

I heard some speak of superdrol, liquid labs pr, etc. It seems that some are for bulking and others for cutting. Would def like to achive that full look between workouts and put on noticeable size.

Thanks for the help.

I have to boil all this down into one digestable list of things:

Your question opens this discussion thread with "What is the best prohormone for muscle growth"?

Diet: 2lbs Steak ; Vegetables; 2 cups rice
Weight: 177
Height: 5'11"
Goal: 195 (I am assuming lean body mass)

Here is the nutritional breakdown 2 pounds of steak

Here is the nutritional breakdown 2 cups of rice
I used long-grain white rice just because.

A few questions. If you are not in a caloric surplus per compared to your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure), then you'll not be gaining any weight at all. In order to calculate a round about number, here's a link to help you achieve an estimate.

TDEE Calculator
https://tdeecalculator.net

My guess is, you're under your TDEE, just to maintain your weight.
That said, you could look at the following in order to improve your expereince.
I would not mess with any form of PED.

- Fish Oil
- Protein
- Creatine (3-5g daily, no preloading needed)
- Vitamin D3 (3iu)
- Boron Citrate (Optional, but it's nice to free up your free testosterone) 20mg
- Water. Drink up.

Great programming.
You will get some amazing advice for programming in order to bulk.
I will say it again, and again, if you don't have a good plan and programming to stick to, you'll fail.

I love the 3 on 1 off
Day 1. Chest / Tri / Shoulders
Day 2. Legs / Calves / Abs
Day 3. Back / Bi
Day 4. Off (Cardio)
Repeat

Commit to this for two solid months and re-evaluate your progress
Rest and Recovery and pinacle to any success. You grow when you're sleeping. So, get enough.

All my best,
M

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Thanks, TDEE was 2,005. I tend to eat Eye of Round steak more than other cut (budget and very lean). I purchased some “mass gainer” protein that I had to use. Russian Bear has 118 g of carbs in it. I would only need to get 80 g of carbs from my white rice then correct? Or should I not use that mass gainer abs return for a regular protein vs a mass gainer? Thnx

 

[justhere4comm]

Thanks, TDEE was 2,005. I tend to eat Eye of Round steak more than other cut (budget and very lean). I purchased some “mass gainer” protein that I had to use. Russian Bear has 118 g of carbs in it. I would only need to get 80 g of carbs from my white rice then correct? Or should I not use that mass gainer abs return for a regular protein vs a mass gainer? Thnx

How did you arrive at that TDEE? You'r 5'11' at 177... Seems low.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

 

[justhere4comm]

Ahhh, senentary... but when you are working out, you're not sedentary.
That is your TDEE if you do nothing my man.

Recalculate, it's about 3,000
You have to eat to match your activity, and there's nothing wrong with that, so as you begin the programming, you can add calories that approach by 200 calories incrementally weekly until you surpass that 3,000 calories.

 

[Pinggolfee96]

calculators are bs to be honest. id track your cals and moving weight average for a couple weeks to get a more accurate idea of your tdee

 

[justhere4comm]

calculators are bs to be honest. id track your cals and moving weight average for a couple weeks to get a more accurate idea of your tdee

That and the scale, hence increasing calories from current slowly by week and you can tell based on your real world experience. The calculators give you a guildline, estimation.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Oh sh** god the more I post the dumber I look. Yeah I am very active between “lifting” and playing hockey 2 times a week

 

[justhere4comm]

Oh sh** god the more I post the dumber I look. Yeah I am very active between “lifting” and playing hockey 2 times a week

Oh, heck no.
The more you move into a more structured programming for lifting, the more calories you can increase and go by the scale.
It's going to be a process.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Thnx, I get it, it will take incrementally increasing my intake. When you say scale do you mean the ones that are provided like with the IIFYM. From the looks of it going for 200 grams of protein, 230 grams of carbs and that is after I changed categories to say that I am more physically active and still only recommend like 2200 calories....

 

[Old Witch]

Eat more than 2200 calories for sure. Unless you’re a woman, or a dwarf maybe...

 

[Farlesworth]

Thnx, I get it, it will take incrementally increasing my intake. When you say scale do you mean the ones that are provided like with the IIFYM. From the looks of it going for 200 grams of protein, 230 grams of carbs and that is after I changed categories to say that I am more physically active and still only recommend like 2200 calories....

The two types of scales referenced are

1. Food scale, which you said you have and have used, often used for food as well as for powdered supplement serving sizes

2. Bodyweight scale, to watch your bodyweight by recording it first thing in the morning each day (after the bathroom stop) to see trends, usually viewed as average bodyewight change per week

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

I have both body weight and a food scale. Got it