Legit kanna doesn’t have to be dosed very high. Zembrin is the “brand name,” and there is another extract that is very similar that you can get for a lot cheaper than Zembrin though. Kanna is a nice mood boosting ingredient, and I find it goes well with caffeine and stimulants. I’ve never used Bacchus or however you spell it though.
Nice! Sounds like a great add-on item to to take with a stim/fat burner, or PWO...
It does seem to have a high safety threshold, with one study noting 14 and 90 day NOAELs (in rats) at 5000 and 600 mg/kg respectively, which is roughly equivalent to 56g and 6.72g for a 70kg human, which are both huge doses. These were the highest doses tested, so it's possible that the NOAEL was even higher than this. It's also worth noting that this was with the Zembrin extract, not the raw powder. I can see an argument being made that this would mean that you could use at least as much of the powder, as the extract is "stronger," but I can also see an argument being made that, as a standardized extract, you know that you're not getting an excessive dose of things you don't want from it. Either way, it seems like it's plenty safe at reasonable doses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18761074
Keep us posted!
Jamie was responsible for our kanna dosage, from what he said and I quote" It's what I like" so it comes down to what dosage of kanna he personally liked taking. He also wanted to make sure it was more than enough for those over 100kg like him at the time and myself( currently at 113kg). Every supplement company has a product close to their heart and for many owners they may have " different" dosages due to them having the intention to use the product for their own benefit. This is why we have the kanna on the higher end. Part of the fun of making supps. Similar to the new fatburner, permaswole and aggro formulations we have in the pipeline. Also, we are going to change the label at some point, our kanna is 2:1 which is what is studied. I'm going to have it changed on the website description for now to mirror that. I told CNPWayne this morning it's on our to do list. I had the same questions about the smaller dosages but jamie assured me this was the best route. I suggest trying it before buying it. We offer samples via email. Email me at [email protected] and we will send some over if you're down to try it.It does seem to have a high safety threshold, with one study noting 14 and 90 day NOAELs (in rats) at 5000 and 600 mg/kg respectively, which is roughly equivalent to 56g and 6.72g for a 70kg human, which are both huge doses. These were the highest doses tested, so it's possible that the NOAEL was even higher than this. It's also worth noting that this was with the Zembrin extract, not the raw powder. I can see an argument being made that this would mean that you could use at least as much of the powder, as the extract is "stronger," but I can also see an argument being made that, as a standardized extract, you know that you're not getting an excessive dose of things you don't want from it. Either way, it seems like it's plenty safe at reasonable doses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25301237
That said, I don't think we can inherently just say that more is better here. We have human studies showing that 25mg of Zembrin is an effective dose,and some rodent studies showing that it's not exactly an inherently/infinitely linear dose-response curve in all aspects, with one study noting that a lower dose of an extract (5mg/kg in rats; roughly equivalent to 56mg for a 70kg person) was more effective than a higher dose (20mg/kg; roughly equivalent to 224mg for a 70kg person) in regards to its ability to "decrease restraint stress-induced self-soothing behavior, as well as to decrease stress-induced corticosterone levels."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816940
TL;DR: Higher doses are likely to be "safe," but not necessarily more effective than lower doses.
Maybe someone at C&P can explain why they believe the much higher dose is better, as I always enjoy some good discussion.
To each his own for sure. We all have our own preferences, and even different goals for why we use a given ingredient. As long as it’s a safe dose, which it does seem to be, people will all have their individual preferences, so having multiple options from different products with different doses is a good thing.
Along with Bacchus, I also got a nootropic product called Xact (Awaken Your Mind). I actually ended up taking both first thing in the morning, and throughout the day at work (along with Vicaine and some other stims). Obviously not a controlled experiment today by any means, but my first impression is that Bacchus did promote some nice relaxation and mood boosting effects. I didn’t seem to get much out of Xact when I took one pill of that in a more isolated manner late in my shift.
Everyone responds differently to ingredients and doses. Sometimes less is more and the bonus is the bottle lasts longer lol
Exactly! Ultimately, I think this may be more of an every now and then kind of supplement for me...or one cap per morning. Still too soon to really tell. I have a feeling I will be able to put it to good use in one way or another though..
hows your appetite with fitmax, inferno and lipodrene elite combined
Fairly good to be honest, but I am not a very good barometer for that. My body has been used to taking these kinds of things for many years. I have never been much of a morning eater anyway....even in my pre stim life. A protein shake along with a couple pieces of toast with peanut butter is about it for me on a good day. Early afternoon and evening has always been my natural eating window.
What will be your Vicaine replacement when it’s gone?
Can you compare it to Vicaine?
Lmao.. funny you asked that. I actually had both bacchus and vicaine today together for the first time. It was very nice.
Oh, just saw this..
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