- 08-06-2018, 03:17 PM
Haven't been sleeping to well lately, which is really wearing me out and hindering progress. I've tried a lot of the self help stuff, like breathing techniques, cutting off screen use an hour or so before bed etc, but nothing has helped so far.
I'm looking for sleep supp recommendations and opinions/experiences with herbals, such as Valerian Root extracts.
- 08-06-2018, 03:26 PM
08-06-2018, 03:36 PM
Have you considered trying melatonin ? Itís helped me in the past. I like to take 10 mg 1 hour before bed. No more than 10mg or youíll just waste your time and money speeding up a tolerance build up.
08-06-2018, 03:51 PM
Anethetized by blackstone labs. I'm not kidding. It's possibly their only supplement that is still legit.
08-06-2018, 04:05 PM
08-06-2018, 04:12 PM
IMO - start with the basics. Some Zinc, Magnesium and B6 (ZMA).
A lot of people are deficient in Magnesium and it makes a BIG difference.
My next step is to add in some GABA (500-2000 mg) and/or Melatonin (depends on the goal...for sleep 1-3 mg is all you need)- both can have additional health benefits beyond just sleep.
Glycine can be added to any of the above and is also very under appreciated.
I try to avoid most other items for anything other than occasional use. Everything above is pretty much healthy and will work most of the time..
08-06-2018, 04:43 PM
08-06-2018, 04:46 PM
Most herbal based supps do not work for me, i have tried one from Warrior known as Dream which is supposed to be quite an effective sleep aid but just provides me with a calm mood, i also used phenibut in the past with good effects at 2 grams 2 hours pre bed, also DNA anabolics Max Zzz which has the ingredient included in Kirkland Sleep Aid known as Doxylamine Succinate which always works well for me at a dose of 1 tab or 25mgs pre bed, i have tried taking 50-75 mgs but more does not provide better sleep and works in the opposite way making me more alert and keeping me up all night. Overall of the many sleep aids i have tried herbal and pharmaceutical based Doxylamine Succinate has been the best and i find i never build a tolerance to it allowing 1 tablet to always work well.
08-06-2018, 04:51 PM
Try taking 450 mg of the magnesium (I like magnesium glycinate a lot because it kills two birds with one stone and has a better absorption rate than oxide) and 25 mg of zinc maybe 30 minutes before sleep. In my experience this will not help me get to sleep faster, but it does help relax me and I REALLY notice that I wake up much less while I'm using it.
Also, try avoiding taking the magnesium along with calcium.
What is going on that is keeping you awake? Lots of thoughts, mind racing, anxiety? Just not tired? Has anything changed during the day? Are you sleeping later? Waking up earlier?
08-06-2018, 04:54 PM
If you want to go the drug route - diphenhydramine (benedryl) is a good go-to, but again not for all the time.
Ketotifen will make you sleep for 10 hours, it's like Benedryl on steroids IMO.
If it's a matter of your sleep cycle just being messed up, it's too bad you can't just get some melatonin.
08-06-2018, 05:09 PM
Magnesium Chelate 400mg and Magnesium Threonate 200mg with 20mg zinc 45 minutes before bed.
Sleeping pattern hasn't changed, I'm still waking up at the same time and going to bed at the same time. I am tired, becomming exhausted, but I just can't sleep. Even when I do manage to fall asleep I'm awake again an hour or so later.
08-06-2018, 05:21 PM
If you are getting that exhausted and can't sleep I would try to get to sleep early one night and hit some benedryl or ketotifen and see if that helps you "reset" a little.
What about your caffeine intake? Any other drugs or supplements? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand anything I may miss over the internet. I know a lot of times people get exhausted and start using stimulants during the day to keep going....which makes it difficult to sleep.
2 grams of GABA can also be very helpful, but given your exhaustion I would get some benedryl or ketotifen and force some sleep if possible. Phenibut may be useful here...but it can be addictive and you build tolerance fast.
08-06-2018, 05:34 PM
200mg of KSM-66 when I get home from work and another 200mg about an hour before bed.
What ingredient am I looking for in the Benedryl? A lot of medications differ in the UK from the US.
It's getting harder to resist, but caffeine and stin intake is very low, nothing above the rare spoon full of normal coffee and I normally stick to decaff. Same for pre-workouts, all low-non-stim.
I'd like to avoid Pheibut if possible and rather stick to herbals. I have a tendancy for supplement addiction.
08-06-2018, 05:40 PM
08-06-2018, 05:41 PM
Like I said, Ketotifen is even stronger, IME. If you can find some of that....you will be out for 9-10 hours solid. When you wake up on Ketotifen though....you will be fuzzy for about 2-3 hours. But if you haven't had any sleep at all, it's worth it. I use it sometimes on the weekends when I have been missing a lot of sleep or something.
Straight GABA at about 2 grams also puts me out.
Also - it sounds like you're making your own Zinc/Magnesium mix - the B6 shouldn't be overlooked. P5P is a good form.
I would drop the KSM if it were me. I think it's a bit over rated TBH, and some people become "energized" when they take it.
08-06-2018, 05:41 PM
08-06-2018, 06:47 PM
How "fuzzy" are we talking here, safe to drive fuzzy or don't drive fuzzy?
I take 200mg of B6 with my zinc+Mag mix 45 mins before bed.
BSL's Anesthetized has 3g of GABA and 2g of Phenibut
08-06-2018, 07:36 PM
Magnesium as above is a great recommendation.
Hands down though, amnes1a by olympus labs. For me, this is the best supp I have ever used. You don't want to become reliant on phenibut
08-06-2018, 07:41 PM
08-06-2018, 09:10 PM
08-06-2018, 09:25 PM
My two go to sleep supps are Dream n Grow and Sedation, if they're available to you. Since Sedation has melatonin I'm assuming it's not available.
Twenty-Two Until None
I Am My Brothers Keeper
08-06-2018, 09:36 PM
08-06-2018, 09:43 PM
Melatonin tends to give me bad dreams, benadryl helps me fall asleep, but staying asleep is harder for me personally, and I recently started If 2-10, I now can get to sleep, but wake up at least twice and it may sound weird but I keep a couple of dumbbells I my room and sometimes it helps me get my energy out, or breathing excercises/meditation, if my minds racing I'll write down my thoughts like to do lists, pros and cons of the day list, short/long term goals, or stuff that's bothering me. sounds dumb but sometimes it helps just to get outta my head. And if all else fails, reading usually helps. but with the fasting, I seem to wake up at like 7-9am really hungry and I'm up a couple hours, then I get super tired which sucks bc I should be doing some fasted workout to make it really count. I'm hoping my body will get used to the new schedule, not to change the subject, just seems like I'm tired a lot which sux. I feel your pain.
08-06-2018, 09:53 PM
While it's not directly a "sleep supp" per se, SNS Growth factor XT seems to have an almost universally positive impact on sleep for everyone. Its purpose is deeper, mroe restful sleep and the gh/recovery benefits that come along with it. It could be a great help in both getting to and staying alseep while also helping build some more muscle in the process!
Serious Nutrition Solutions Product Rep - db77 @ seriousnutritionsolutions.com
08-06-2018, 11:21 PM
Personally I tend to go with 10mg melatonan dose and I usually knock out no issues. During allergy season, now for me, I take 50mg benedryl and that puts me down and relieves my allergies.
If you need more than simple melatonan, Chaos and Pain has "Hypnos" which is part of thier Olympus Series. It's formula is rediculous, I have been eyeing it for a while now... If you interested there is a 25% discount code nfl25 which can be used on Hypnos and rest of the products @ chaosandpain.com
Each serving has:
Phenibut – 500mg: An analog of GABA. It has the awesome power of being able to cross over the blood brain barrier! Phenibt doesn’t pay any tolls!
GABA – 500mg: A calming neurotransmitter that is also responsible for muscle tone regulation. Turns off the brain’s light switch, while toning up your body!
Magnesium Aspartate – 250mg: Vital for GABA receptors to function properly. Helps you get the most out of Phenibut and GABA.
Valerian Root Extract – 200mg: An herb used to battle insomnia to the death, while bringing forth Lucid Dreaming!
L-Dopa 98% - 50mg: Precursor to dopamine, a neurotransmitter that plays a vital role in sleep, sexual desire, memory, mood, motivation and attention. I once knew a friend who completed a “Hat-Trick” by using L-Dopa!
Hops – 50mg: Makes your favorite “Happy Hour” beverage taste awesome, and aids with sleep.
Passionflower 10:1 – 30mg: An herb that fights for your right to sleep, without any hangover effects!
Melatonin – 5mg: The king of sleep supplements. This hormone is released by the pineal gland when it is dark outside! Don’t be “3rd Eye Blind,” take your Hypnos tonight!
Chaos & Pain Rep
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