BEWARE OF DIM IN DOSES OVER 100MG

[Dmpesso]

What’s up everyone. I’ve had slightly puffy nips since puberty and I was taking a test booster that had 250mg of dim in it. At first it was nice I noticed my waist was getting smaller, pants fitting looser and puffy nipples were going away. All of the sudden after a few months I noticed I felt like my estrogen increased. Bloating and more chest fat and puffy nipples then when I started. If I keep it under 100mg of dim per day I feel like it works a little but after that it’s really dangerous for testosterone and estrogen in men. Actually read a study that over 100mg or something it has a pro estrogen affect on men but in low doses it can reduce. Just wanted to warn anyone researching dim. Most supplements contain more then a man can handle!

 

[BBiceps]

Interesting, in for more info.

 

[Dmpesso]

Interesting, in for more info.

It’s pretty scary how fast DIM can raise estrogen, probably faster then it lowers it, yet it’s marketed all over the place to decrease estrogen if can actually raise it a lot easier. Especially in the doses in some of these supplements. I was taking genius test from amazon. It has 250MG of DIM. Way too much

 

[bigdavid]

It’s pretty scary how fast DIM can raise estrogen, probably faster then it lowers it, yet it’s marketed all over the place to decrease estrogen if can actually raise it a lot easier. Especially in the doses in some of these supplements. I was taking genius test from amazon. It has 250MG of DIM. Way too much

I’ve been saying this for years but it usually falls on deaf ears unfortunately.

 

[BlockBuilder]

So what other ingredients were in the test booster besides DIM? I feel that is extremely important info that you left out

 

[KingErgogenic]

There's an entire podcast dedicated to this topic, on "The ATP Project"- It's called "Don't be a DIM-wit"

Worth listening to, imo.

 

[cheftepesh1]

I’d be curious to read the study if anyone can find it?

 

[Dmpesso]

There's an entire podcast dedicated to this topic, on "The ATP Project"- It's called "Don't be a DIM-wit"
Worth listening to, imo.

Wow and I’m the ****in idiot that trusted the company and used it. I hope my estrogen returns to where it was before because it was never this high before I took DIM. I hope this damage isn’t permanent. Some of these natural herbs are too powerful to be sold OTC with negative effects like this. There should be clear warnings for men to never take more then 100MG

 

[Dmpesso]

There's an entire podcast dedicated to this topic, on "The ATP Project"- It's called "Don't be a DIM-wit"

Worth listening to, imo.

You can’t even find it when you google if DIM is bad for men or not. What a shame. These side effects should be more clear. I would love to hear this podcast

 

[Dmpesso]

So what other ingredients were in the test booster besides DIM? I feel that is extremely important info that you left out

Honestly the other ingredients are fine because I have taken dim separately and got the same effect. I actually like the other ingredients. It has KSM66 Ash, PrimaVie Shilajit, Fenugreek 50% saponins, quercetin, DIM, LJ100 and boron. It’s the DIM in it they put too much. That’s the max dosage used in humans and they’re so stupid because men can’t handle that amount

 

[BlockBuilder]

Honestly the other ingredients are fine because I have taken dim separately and got the same effect. I actually like the other ingredients. It has KSM66 Ash, PrimaVie Shilajit, Fenugreek 50% saponins, quercetin, DIM, LJ100 and boron. It’s the DIM in it they put too much. That’s the max dosage used in humans and they’re so stupid because men can’t handle that amount

Ok but fenugreek can also drastically raise prolactin and estrogen. I’ve used 300 mg DIM stand alone and it did wonders for my libido and overall mood. Maybe I just respond well to it I don’t know. If you took DIM separately and had that effect why on earth would you take it again!? That makes NO sense at all

 

[Dmpesso]

Ok but fenugreek can also drastically raise prolactin and estrogen. I’ve used 300 mg DIM stand alone and it did wonders for my libido and overall mood. Maybe I just respond well to it I don’t know. If you took DIM separately and had that effect why on earth would you take it again!? That makes NO sense at all

It depends where your baseline T and E levels are and how sensitive your body is to estrogen. Also, as a male usually when you raise estrogen but not too high, it increases libido. I know when my estrogen is a little high my libido is increased. Not high above the limit but the upper end of normal. Your mood and libido could have increased from the elevated E2. Also, how long did you take it for because for me everything was all good until after about 2 months. It must have built up in my system. I had to start milk thistle with it. I think liver health also is a factor, some people can handle more.

I took DIM separately after stopping the genius test to see if I can just take DIM alone and to make sure it was actually the DIM and not something else that was increasing my estrogen. I’m pretty sure this all depends on liver health.

 

[Dmpesso]

I’ll tell you one thing. Arimistane definitely works to lower circulating estrogen. Not sure how long the effects last but just from taking it one or two days I feel much better emotionally. Much more calm and less anxious which I attributed to the high estrogen, which only got worse after my run with DIM. My nips look a little better after only 2 days. Excited to see what happens after a few weeks. F*CK DIM!

 

[Dmpesso]

Rocket3015
Chuck Diesel

Thoughts?

I wonder how much DIM is in diesel test since it’s a proprietary blend

 

[BBiceps]

It’s pretty scary how fast DIM can raise estrogen, probably faster then it lowers it, yet it’s marketed all over the place to decrease estrogen if can actually raise it a lot easier. Especially in the doses in some of these supplements. I was taking genius test from amazon. It has 250MG of DIM. Way too much

mmh, I got 300mg DIM capsules thinking “more is better”... I only taken it for a few days so it shouldn’t be any harm done, maybe I should do half caps or even 1/3 from now on?

 

[Rocket3015]

His E2-X has 400mg per day, 2 tabs.

I have used this 5 days a week for a few years, No Problems !!

 

[BOSSMAN]

His E2-X has 400mg per day, 2 tabs.

I run the E2 X every other month...no issues here

 

[Dmpesso]

I really think this might depend on our liver health because I certainly couldn’t handle that many MG of dim over a period of time. In the beginning it was ok but I’ve heard dim is dependent on liver health. Also I’m not in nearly the same shape as some of you guys taking there large doses. I don’t even go to the gym. I just do push-ups. Also what were you guys taking it with? If your on T or your T levels are very high then you won’t even notice if the dim raises your estrogen.

 

[Dmpesso]

I have used this 5 days a week for a few years, No Problems !!

Just curious are you or have you taken anything else to raise your T?

 

[BOSSMAN]

I take 30 days of GET DIESEL RAW TEST and COQ DIESEL, then 30 days E2 X, rotate every other month year round.

 

[Dmpesso]

I take 30 days of GET DIESEL RAW TEST and COQ DIESEL, then 30 days E2 X, rotate every other month year round.

See, I didn’t take any breaks maybe that was my issue. I’m almost positive it boils down to liver health. I’m susceptible to estrogen. I’m sure you aren’t as bad as me. If your T is naturally higher then mine and didn’t already have high estrogen then that would explain how you can handle it. And again, the liver.

 

[Rocket3015]

Just curious are you or have you taken anything else to raise your T?

100mg Test C Weekly

 

[Dmpesso]

100mg Test C Weekly

Well there’s my answer. Clearly you have more then enough T to compensate for the rise in estrogen that can happen with DIM. I want to see someone completely natty who used only dim high dose to counter estrogen.

 

[Rocket3015]

Well there’s my answer. Clearly you have more then enough T to compensate for the rise in estrogen that can happen with DIM. I want to see someone completely natty who used only dim high dose to counter estrogen.

I'm sure we can find someone ???????????????

 

[rowz4broz]

I would avoid fenugreek too, inhibits dht

 

[Dmpesso]

I would avoid fenugreek too, inhibits dht

So does dim. So much conflicting “research”



Just googling dim increases estrogen brings up enough to prove it. Anyone natty will easily increase their estrogen taking it unless the dose is very small.

 

[KingErgogenic]

Are you trying to inhibit aromatase/Estrogen?

Look into NIACINAMIDE mega doses. Ie. >100mg

That can simultaneously lower estrogen and enhance DHT signalling:
"...The NAD-dependent histone deacetylase Sir2 plays a key role in connecting cellular metabolism with gene silencing and aging. The androgen receptor (AR) is a ligand-regulated modular nuclear receptor governing prostate cancer cellular proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis in response to androgens, including dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Here, SIRT1 antagonists induce endogenous AR expression and enhance DHT-mediated AR expression"

 

[Young Gotti]

I've been using 200mg of DIM everyday for like 3 or 4 months now....I'm also natty, I haven't had any issue and feel like it's helped but this is alarming....I did research after seeing this yesterday and dont' know what to think....maybe do the 200mg's every other day

I've read on numerous occasions you need to be on the DIM for like 4 months or so before you "really" start seeing results

 

[bosskardo]

Are you trying to inhibit aromatase/Estrogen?

Look into NIACINAMIDE mega doses. Ie. >100mg

That can simultaneously lower estrogen and enhance DHT signalling:
"...The NAD-dependent histone deacetylase Sir2 plays a key role in connecting cellular metabolism with gene silencing and aging. The androgen receptor (AR) is a ligand-regulated modular nuclear receptor governing prostate cancer cellular proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis in response to androgens, including dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Here, SIRT1 antagonists induce endogenous AR expression and enhance DHT-mediated AR expression"

That's interesting. Can you link to it?

 

[banjobounce]

I had been using around 600mg per day for the past few months. I have no bloods, but anecdotally speaking, my obliques and maybe my quads seem to lose definition at similar body fat levels as before taking it.

 

[Dmpesso]

I had been using around 600mg per day for the past few months. I have no bloods, but anecdotally speaking, my obliques and maybe my quads seem to lose definition at similar body fat levels as before taking it.

600mg! That’s way too much DIM. So clearly your estrogen is increasing and possibly your testosterone is being lowered. I heard DIM can lower T and DHT in high enough doses and 600mg is more then high. If you don’t mind me asking, what made you decide to take that much DIM?

 

[Dmpesso]

Are you trying to inhibit aromatase/Estrogen?

Look into NIACINAMIDE mega doses. Ie. >100mg

That can simultaneously lower estrogen and enhance DHT signalling:
"...The NAD-dependent histone deacetylase Sir2 plays a key role in connecting cellular metabolism with gene silencing and aging. The androgen receptor (AR) is a ligand-regulated modular nuclear receptor governing prostate cancer cellular proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis in response to androgens, including dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Here, SIRT1 antagonists induce endogenous AR expression and enhance DHT-mediated AR expression"

Looks promising. Might get some niacinimide! Thanks

 

[Dmpesso]

I've been using 200mg of DIM everyday for like 3 or 4 months now....I'm also natty, I haven't had any issue and feel like it's helped but this is alarming....I did research after seeing this yesterday and dont' know what to think....maybe do the 200mg's every other day

I've read on numerous occasions you need to be on the DIM for like 4 months or so before you "really" start seeing results

What makes you think it’s helping? Your not taking ANYTHING else?

Yea I really saw results after a few months. More feminine fat distribution and bloating like a mofo. DIM builds up in your liver, this is a fact. That’s why it’s recommended often to use milk thistle with it. It helped when I took milk thistle to bring down the bloating but I’m sure my liver isn’t 100% because eventually it built up in my system again and I got the estrogen sides. Someone with perfect liver health can possibly handle these larger amounts but eventually it does build up and increase estrogen. In fact no matter the dose, the way DIM works is supposedly lowering “bad” estrogen while increasing the “good estrogen”. To me, there is no “good estrogen” for men. It’s simply the T to E ratio, forget which type of estrogen it is. If the ratio is off we will get side effects of high E. There are proven studies that show the effect of DIM is dose dependent. Too much builds up in your liver and raises estrogen and just the right small amount can slightly decrease it. Regardless, it sounds insane to try and lower estrogen with something that is known to raise it. Everyone is different, your weight, liver health and circulating estrogen all make a difference to how effective it is.

 

[banjobounce]

600mg! That’s way too much DIM. So clearly your estrogen is increasing and possibly your testosterone is being lowered. I heard DIM can lower T and DHT in high enough doses and 600mg is more then high. If you don’t mind me asking, what made you decide to take that much DIM?

N=1 experiment. I have loads of it lying around. I wouldn't say that "clearly my estrogen is being raised and test being lowered". It's definitely a possibility, but my test was abysmally low before I ever took DIM. That being said, I am going to see what happens when I cut it out completely. No taper or anything.

 

[Dmpesso]

N=1 experiment. I have loads of it lying around. I wouldn't say that "clearly my estrogen is being raised and test being lowered". It's definitely a possibility, but my test was abysmally low before I ever took DIM. That being said, I am going to see what happens when I cut it out completely. No taper or anything.

Your test is low? What’s low? Did you ever check your estrogen? Are you taking anything for your test? You look pretty shredded in your avatar pic I’m surprised you have low T. I always thought people with low T will have a soft body

 

[banjobounce]

Your test is low? What’s low? Did you ever check your estrogen? Are you taking anything for your test? You look pretty shredded in your avatar pic I’m surprised you have low T. I always thought people with low T will have a soft body

in that pic, my total test is in the 200's. The doctor that I go to will not give me a full hormonal profile blood test, and they look at me like I am a drug seeker whenever I bring it up. Before anyone says to find another doctor, this is the only doctor's office that can stay open long term, as every other doctors office is getting shut down for giving out too many pain meds/ controls. I live in one of the worst counties in the US as far as drug abuse goes so I guess I cant quite blame them.

 

[Dmpesso]

in that pic, my total test is in the 200's. The doctor that I go to will not give me a full hormonal profile blood test, and they look at me like I am a drug seeker whenever I bring it up. Before anyone says to find another doctor, this is the only doctor's office that can stay open long term, as every other doctors office is getting shut down for giving out too many pain meds/ controls. I live in one of the worst counties in the US as far as drug abuse goes so I guess I cant quite blame them.

Holy ****. Where the hell do you live? That doesn’t even make sense if you want to get a hormone panel what does that have to do with drugs? 200 is very low, the doctor didn’t want to prescribe anything to raise your test?

 

[mikeymike85]

I run Nolvadren in every PCT...it has 200mg DIM. I really like Nolvadren, it dries me out really nice. So to sum this all up, why not take 200mg DIM for 30 days?

 

[banjobounce]

Holy ****. Where the hell do you live? That doesn’t even make sense if you want to get a hormone panel what does that have to do with drugs? 200 is very low, the doctor didn’t want to prescribe anything to raise your test?

I live in Tennessee. That's all I will say on that. concerning trt: nope. I didn't ask for trt, but they weren't even going to tell me the numbers. I had to get the lab results from SOMEBODY ELSE in the office when getting bloods done at a later date. They made a big $h!t deal about my CK, ALT and AST levels being elevated after a twice per day leg session (which I told them about prior) but told me that my test levels were completely normal. In the follow up labs, all values were better except test levels lol. I shouldn't sound so whiny though. They are just being cautious, as the problematic environment warrants it. It just makes it difficult for others.

 

[Dmpesso]

I run Nolvadren in every PCT...it has 200mg DIM. I really like Nolvadren, it dries me out really nice. So to sum this all up, why not take 200mg DIM for 30 days?

It has Arimistane. Which is what’s drying you out. The DIM isnt doing jack most likely. That Arimistane is powerful as hell. One dose and I feel and see a difference. Dim doesn’t dry you out. When the dose is right the effects are very subtle.

 

[fightnews]

This is a main ingredient in sns inhibit e right? Ive been using it without any issues but im only using 2 caps a day. I always have nolvadex on hand anyway i like to pop 1 every once in a while. I have been feeling a little bit of extra estrogen but i figured its from taking dhea/preg

 

[Derek Wilson]

Interesting, get a lot of vital info! Thanks anyway!

 

[Dmpesso]

This is a main ingredient in sns inhibit e right? Ive been using it without any issues but im only using 2 caps a day. I always have nolvadex on hand anyway i like to pop 1 every once in a while. I have been feeling a little bit of extra estrogen but i figured its from taking dhea/preg

Is has the indole DIM. The supposedly more bioavailable DIM or whatever. Has 400mg which is a lot. Supposedly I3C converts to DIM in the body so I’m sure it has the same effect. I would stop taking it right away. You said your taking it without any issues but that you have been feeling a little extra estrogen. I believe that would be an issue ;-) or were you feeling like that before taking the inhibit E?

 

[Young Gotti]

What makes you think it’s helping? Your not taking ANYTHING else?

Yea I really saw results after a few months. More feminine fat distribution and bloating like a mofo. DIM builds up in your liver, this is a fact. That’s why it’s recommended often to use milk thistle with it. It helped when I took milk thistle to bring down the bloating but I’m sure my liver isn’t 100% because eventually it built up in my system again and I got the estrogen sides. Someone with perfect liver health can possibly handle these larger amounts but eventually it does build up and increase estrogen. In fact no matter the dose, the way DIM works is supposedly lowering “bad” estrogen while increasing the “good estrogen”. To me, there is no “good estrogen” for men. It’s simply the T to E ratio, forget which type of estrogen it is. If the ratio is off we will get side effects of high E. There are proven studies that show the effect of DIM is dose dependent. Too much builds up in your liver and raises estrogen and just the right small amount can slightly decrease it. Regardless, it sounds insane to try and lower estrogen with something that is known to raise it. Everyone is different, your weight, liver health and circulating estrogen all make a difference to how effective it is.

haha I'm a rep, of course I'm taking other supplements....but nothing hormonal....DIM is the only constant

I'm holding less fat in my chest than usual especially in my upper chest....chest fat has been a big issue for me for years now....the lump under my right nipple has also gotten softer and smaller, not by much but I have noticed a difference

so right now I'm skeptical of the DIM is evil thing, i'll have to dig further and make an educated decision on if I continue with it or not

 

[Rocket3015]

so right now I'm skeptical of the DIM is evil thing, i'll have to dig further and make an educated decision on if I continue with it or not

The smartest thing anyone on this board can do !!

 

[Dmpesso]

haha I'm a rep, of course I'm taking other supplements....but nothing hormonal....DIM is the only constant

I'm holding less fat in my chest than usual especially in my upper chest....chest fat has been a big issue for me for years now....the lump under my right nipple has also gotten softer and smaller, not by much but I have noticed a difference

so right now I'm skeptical of the DIM is evil thing, i'll have to dig further and make an educated decision on if I continue with it or not

Maybe your liver is able to handle it better. Because the first few months the DIM was great for me too, but after a while it started building up and I felt the effects of more estrogen. Bloating, chest fat, mood swings.