The case for Cardarine.

[Mwhite530]

Does it actually burn fat? Or does it just increase endurance which leads to more calories burned?

 

[Godstrength]

Does it actually burn fat? Or does it just increase endurance which leads to more calories burned?

Increased fat oxidation which means it has a better potential to burn fat. The compound itself does not burn fat.

 

[Mwhite530]

Increased fat oxidation which means it has a better potential to burn fat. The compound itself does not burn fat.

But at the end of the day it does help to burn fat? And how long of a cycle? Is 8 weeks enough?

 

[Godstrength]

But at the end of the day it does help to burn fat? And how long of a cycle? Is 8 weeks enough?

It helps if it is in the right environment. For example if you just take cardarine and don't do anything its not going to burn any fat in the way something like EC would. If you take it and put it in an environment where your body is already going to be burning fat you will see it better facilitate that process. It also is good for endurance. 8 weeks is enough some people go longer.

 

[Mwhite530]

Alright dude thanks I’ll pull the trigger

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Personally, unless you're a competitive athlete, if fat burning is your primary goal (i.e. you're not so much concerned with increased endurance as just burning fat), I'd opt for your classic EC stack (like Godstrength mentioned) over cardarine. There's lots more data showing EC to be very effective, and it has a much more well-established safety profile (I'm not going to weigh in too much on the whole cardarine safety debate, but EC definitely seems to have a more favorable safety profile, especially for regular/consistent/long-term use).

 

[Mwhite530]

Personally, unless you're a competitive athlete, if fat burning is your primary goal (i.e. you're not so much concerned with increased endurance as just burning fat), I'd opt for your classic EC stack (like Godstrength mentioned) over cardarine. There's lots more data showing EC to be very effective, and it has a much more well-established safety profile (I'm not going to weigh in too much on the whole cardarine safety debate, but EC definitely seems to have a more favorable safety profile, especially for regular/consistent/long-term use).

EC as in ephedrine caffeine? I’ve tried doing that before and I get really bad chest pains kinda frequently. Interestingly, when I tried clen I didn’t get that pain. So idk what the deal with that is, but I’d kinda prefer to stay away from ephedrine. I was doing 25mg ephedrine and ~200mg caffeine twice a day. Did I do something wrong?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

EC as in ephedrine caffeine? I’ve tried doing that before and I get really bad chest pains kinda frequently. Interestingly, when I tried clen I didn’t get that pain. So idk what the deal with that is, but I’d kinda prefer to stay away from ephedrine. I was doing 25mg ephedrine and ~200mg caffeine twice a day. Did I do something wrong?

Yeah, that's the EC I was talking about. If it didn't treat you well, then I guess it's just not for you; we all react differently. Your dosing seems pretty standard; I've seen 20mg and 200mg up to 3x per day in studies. Some people swear by cardarine, but some of the safety studies in rodents scares me away. There are some very promising initial studies in human subjects though, so it really comes down to determining risk vs reward, as most things in life do.

 

[Mwhite530]

Yeah, that's the EC I was talking about. If it didn't treat you well, then I guess it's just not for you; we all react differently. Your dosing seems pretty standard; I've seen 20mg and 200mg up to 3x per day in studies. Some people swear by cardarine, but some of the safety studies in rodents scares me away. There are some very promising initial studies in human subjects though, so it really comes down to determining risk vs reward, as most things in life do.

I haven’t really read into the studies or anything but I’ve heard that the studies were at like astronomically high doses for multiple years at a time so that’s the only reason I’m not overly concerned. I’ll just be careful with it and not abuse it and I’ll hopefully be fine lol but thanks for the advice my dude!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I haven’t really read into the studies or anything but I’ve heard that the studies were at like astronomically high doses for multiple years at a time so that’s the only reason I’m not overly concerned. I’ll just be careful with it and not abuse it and I’ll hopefully be fine lol but thanks for the advice my dude!

They actually weren't astronomically high doses; most of the "geniuses" making YouTube videos and "analyses" of the studies/research apparently don't know what HED is, so they dropped the ball on converting the doses. They took the 5mg/kg dose in rats and simply multiplied it by the human weight to get 400mg for an 80kg human. They forgot the HED conversion factor (you have to multiply the rat dose of 5mg/kg by 0.16 to get the human dose in mg/kg). That turns 5mg/kg into 0.8mg, which gives you a dose of 64mg for an 80kg human, which is only 2-3x the dose a lot of people use. There is some debate over if it "causes" cancer, or only increases the growth of existing cancer or potentiates the effects of other carcinogens, but none of those sound like particularly good things to me, but it's your call what to do. There's also debate over the risks of using it for a few weeks every once in a while as opposed to regularly/long-term, but I think I'll wait for more user feedback over a longer period of time.

 

[Mwhite530]

They actually weren't astronomically high doses; most of the "geniuses" making YouTube videos and "analyses" of the studies/research apparently don't know what HED is, so they dropped the ball on converting the doses. They took the 5mg/kg dose in rats and simply multiplied it by the human weight to get 400mg for an 80kg human. They forgot the HED conversion factor (you have to multiply the rat dose of 5mg/kg by 0.16 to get the human dose in mg/kg). That turns 5mg/kg into 0.8mg, which gives you a dose of 64mg for an 80kg human, which is only 2-3x the dose a lot of people use. There is some debate over if it "causes" cancer, or only increases the growth of existing cancer or potentiates the effects of other carcinogens, but none of those sound like particularly good things to me, but it's your call what to do. There's also debate over the risks of using it for a few weeks every once in a while as opposed to regularly/long-term, but I think I'll wait for more user feedback over a longer period of time.

Oh wow alright I never even knew about the HED factor. I’ll try it when I get it then probably stay away until there’s more evidence.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Oh wow alright I never even knew about the HED factor. I’ll try it when I get it then probably stay away until there’s more evidence.

Lots of people say that it’s probably fine if you aren’t predisposed to cancer, aren’t exposed to a lot of carcinogens (smoking, work-related, etc), and only use it for for short-ish cycles with a while in between, but I don’t know either way. You’ll most likely be fine with this one cycle if nothing else, and you can always form an opinion on risk vs reward after you’ve tried it I guess. We know smoking is very bad for you, but you probably won’t get lung cancer by smoking for a month, if that makes any sense. But you still probably wouldn’t want to smoke for a month every other or third month for years (regular cycling), if that also makes any sense.

 

[Mwhite530]

Lots of people say that it’s probably fine if you aren’t predisposed to cancer, aren’t exposed to a lot of carcinogens (smoking, work-related, etc), and only use it for for short-ish cycles with a while in between, but I don’t know either way. You’ll most likely be fine with this one cycle if nothing else, and you can always form an opinion on risk vs reward after you’ve tried it I guess. We know smoking is very bad for you, but you probably won’t get lung cancer by smoking for a month, if that makes any sense. But you still probably wouldn’t want to smoke for a month every other or third month for years (regular cycling), if that also makes any sense.

That all makes total sense man. Thanks a lot for the help I’ve never really been able to find info on Cardarine just by searching.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

That all makes total sense man. Thanks a lot for the help I’ve never really been able to find info on Cardarine just by searching.

No problem. Here's a surprisingly in-depth summary on it that discusses the human and rodent studies:
https://www.tga.gov.au/book-page/12-cardarine

 

[aovereem]

Wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole. GSK abruptly abandoned a potential multi billion dollar product.... That should tell you something..

 

[Mwhite530]

Wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole. GSK abruptly abandoned a potential multi billion dollar product.... That should tell you something..

What is gsk

 

[aovereem]

What is gsk

Glaxosmithkline, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world

 

[Mwhite530]

Glaxosmithkline, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world

Did they abandon it bc of the cancer scare or because of the efficacy?

 

[aovereem]

Did they abandon it bc of the cancer scare or because of the efficacy?

They abandoned it in 2007 for undisclosed reasons. As far as I know it later emerged the reason was because of the rapid cancer development in rodents.

 

[justhere4comm]

Or it cured cancer. Who really knows. They dosed it so high and the rats already had tumors.

 

[aovereem]

Or it cured cancer. Who really knows. They dosed it so high and the rats already had tumors.

If anyone's dumb enough to gamble that's fine by me. The doses given weren't that high though

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Or it cured cancer. Who really knows. They dosed it so high and the rats already had tumors.

I just went over this; the doses only seem high if you don't know what HED is. The lowest dose that was found to increase cancer growth was equivalent to around 64mg for an 80kg human. That's "so high?" In regards to clinical trials, it's typically recommended to apply a factor of safety of 10 when starting human trials. That means you take the dose that was found to be safe in rodents, find the HED dose, and then divide that by 10 to find your starting dose for evaluating it's safety in humans. ~64mg equivalent was the lowest dose used, and even that wasn't found to be "safe," we we'd have to go lower. Now divide that by 10, and we have lower than 6.4mg

At the end of the day, we really don't know, it's possible it doesn't cause cancer, but only increases the growth of existing cancer, or maybe it potentiates the effects of other carcinogens, but dismissing the research by choosing to ignore HED conversion is just wrong.

 

[justhere4comm]

I know what HED is. Did I really need an /s tag #sarcasm...

 

[muscleupcrohn]

They abandoned it in 2007 for undisclosed reasons. As far as I know it later emerged the reason was because of the rapid cancer development in rodents.

Not only did GSK abandon it, but it looks like Ligand Pharmaceuticals did as well.

Under the terms of the research and development agreement between Ligand and GSK, GSK is responsible for the development and registration of GW501516, and will continue to pay Ligand milestone payments as the product moves through the development process. GSK has exclusive worldwide marketing rights to GW501516, and will pay Ligand significant royalties on potential product sales. If GSK decides not to proceed with development of GW510516, Ligand will retain the right to develop and commercialize the product.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Ligand+Earns+$1.0+Million+Milestone+Payment+as+GlaxoSmithKline...-a0118100294

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I know what HED is. Did I really need an /s tag #sarcasm...

I figured the first part about curing cancer was sarcasm, but considering how many people actually think the doses used were high, including some "gurus" and "experts" on YouTube, you never really know.

 

[user567]

Read the interview with the guy who invented it. He is developing another version without the downsides (which apparently people ignore).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-10-17/one-scientist-s-marathon-quest-for-the-exercise-pill

 

[Azov]

Rodents eliminate drugs from their bodies much faster than we do, so they have to receive higher doses to see the same effects.

In the case of cardarine, the mice were given 10 mg per kilogram of cardarine per day, which adjusted for the human metabolism , comes out to about 75 mg per day for a 200-pound man.

 

[AndroRage]

Yeah, that's the EC I was talking about. If it didn't treat you well, then I guess it's just not for you; we all react differently. Your dosing seems pretty standard; I've seen 20mg and 200mg up to 3x per day in studies. Some people swear by cardarine, but some of the safety studies in rodents scares me away. There are some very promising initial studies in human subjects though, so it really comes down to determining risk vs reward, as most things in life do.

I’ve just checked my Ephedrine which is supposedly pharmaceutical grade and it’s dosed at 8mg i have been using just the one with caffeine in my pre workout...
So to clarify if I were to use this for fat burning purposes I would need 2 or more of these 8mg in one dose or? Just looking at minimum effective dose, if all variables consistent with purpose of maximising thermogenesis.

Any help appreciated bro

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I’ve just checked my Ephedrine which is supposedly pharmaceutical grade and it’s dosed at 8mg i have been using just the one with caffeine in my pre workout...
So to clarify if I were to use this for fat burning purposes I would need 2 or more of these 8mg in one dose or? Just looking at minimum effective dose, if all variables consistent with purpose of maximising thermogenesis.

Any help appreciated bro

Yeah. 20mg with 200mg caffeine (3x daily) is a common studied dose.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1318281/
You may want to start lower to assess tolerance, and perhaps try 2x per day before 3x.

 

[Savageoutlaw]

Where can i get good ephedrine at?

 

[rtmilburn]

Where can i get good ephedrine at?

It's easy to find if you know where to look. Just be careful with quantity, low enough amount goes unnoticed. Too much brings the DEA to the door. Haha

 

[rtmilburn]

It's easy to find if you know where to look. Just be careful with quantity, low enough amount goes unnoticed. Too much brings the DEA to the door. Haha

To add to this, I don't know why you would bother with it. When bronkaid or primatene are easy and legal to get. Plus if your willing to go to the grey market for ephedrine then just get clen. Clen is stronger and will get you in less trouble, if were for some rare reason you get caught.

 

[Savageoutlaw]

Gotcha didn’t know it was illegal still but thanks

 

[rtmilburn]

Gotcha didn’t know it was illegal still but thanks

Not illegal just illegal to get it from anywhere other than a pharmacy. It's to control quantity sold, so people aren't making meth

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Not illegal just illegal to get it from anywhere other than a pharmacy. It's to control quantity sold, so people aren't making meth

This. Just buy it from the pharmacy (behind the counter but no prescription needed) in reasonable quantities and you’re golden. No need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[rtmilburn]

This. Just buy it from the pharmacy (behind the counter but no prescription needed) in reasonable quantities and you’re golden. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Exactly