Epitome worth it???
- 01-29-2018, 04:04 AM
- 01-29-2018, 07:35 AM
It probably reacts differently depending on the person. So some will get good results and others may not but I've used Oxymax before and that alone will get you good results whether you have the appetite suppresent or not.Official Strong Supplement Shop Board Rep
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01-29-2018, 11:48 AM
When we are in a caloric deficit, the theory is that our body makes hormonal changes. Now, I'm the guy arguing that "starvation mode" isn't real, but I'm not denying the validity of these hormonal changes. Leptin levels, in particular, drop. And the leaner you get the more they drop. Epitome tends to "normalize" leptin levels.
If you are over 15% bodyfat, I would think the benefits of Epitome will be real, but very subtle. As you get leaner (under 12-13%), the effects will become more pronounced and the appetite suppression most people speak of will be more pronounced because your leptin levels will be higher than if you weren't using it.
If you can mentally go long periods without a cheat or refeed, epitome will also help you avoid the leptin changes that long term deficits create. In other words, you can go longer without a refeed/cheat and thus see results more quickly because you're not taking a step back to avoid stalling.
01-29-2018, 02:01 PM
01-29-2018, 02:01 PM
01-29-2018, 02:17 PM
I think OxyMax will have you covered for appetite suppression. I think adding something like BRITE or a topical would be more beneficial and provide another angle/pathway of fat loss...
GlycoShield-GDA (Capped/Oral Non-Stim)
LipoShield-Fat Gain Inhibitor (Powdered/Drinkable Non-Stim)
OxyMax-Appetite Suppression+Thermogenic (Capped/Oral Stim)
BRITE-Conversion Of Inactive White Fat Cells Into Metabolically Active Beige/Brite Fat Cells (Sublingual Non Stim)
SuperNova-For Subcutaneous Fat (Topical Non-Stim)
Has the profile for Vector been released yet?
01-29-2018, 02:20 PM
Not really sure. It should have those effects regardless of what you are taking it with. But if you're increasing appetite then you will either diminish Epitome's appetite suppression effects or fight them. Regardless, if you are over 20% bodyfat, the effects of epitome short term will be minimal. I'd rather you not use it at this point, rather than be disappointed and not have faith in it when it was appropriate.
Why are you stacking all this stuff with a muscle builder? It doesn't seem like you have a solid plan in place? I used to do this a lot too - I felt that if I found the right combination of fat burners, the weight would just come off and everyone would be wondering what I did.
Having a plan, showing up and putting in the work to execute that plan, and being consistent will be 100X more effective than any stack of supplements you will come up with.
01-29-2018, 05:53 PM
01-29-2018, 05:54 PM
01-29-2018, 05:55 PM
01-29-2018, 06:02 PM
01-29-2018, 06:49 PM
01-29-2018, 09:11 PM
This is why I was saying that short term it may disappoint but will still have long term benefits. It will lower leptin levels in obese people, which will increase hunger at first. But with continued reduction in leptin levels, it should allow you to restore insulin sensitivity over time.
So, with long term use it will have a positive impact on composition. But for someone treating it like a normal fat burner and trying to stack everything they can for short term results...they will probably be disappointed. I would rather the product wasn't associated with such attempts because it just lends to the idea it doesn't work and that just isn't true.
@dsade cam chime in of course. I think this is one of the big obstacles we face at evomuse...it is hard to really get each product and see how it applies.
01-29-2018, 11:20 PM
As well, as Leptin levels rise over normal, and Leptin resistance becomes a major factor, the body is also screaming to hold onto that extra bodyfat, and metabolism tanks. It's a highly destructive, perpetuating cycle that makes it incredibly difficult to drop from higher body fat levels (25%>) down to normal range.
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01-30-2018, 07:31 PM
04-15-2018, 06:08 PM
@dsade ... for someone with higher body fat levels, what would you recommend stacking with Epitome? Alphaburn? Defuse? AA? Supernova?
Can you also provide some recommendations on optimal timing to use the products you recommend?
04-16-2018, 07:40 AM
i wasn't a fan of epitome, I didn't notice anything....but like others have said it could be dependent on users...I just don't have a reason to use it again personally
04-16-2018, 07:53 AM
04-16-2018, 09:18 AM
04-16-2018, 12:19 PM
For some people, Epitome has a strong appetite suppressing effect but not for everyone. If you have normal leptin response and dieting is causing your leptin levels to drop - then it will likely keep your appetite at bay because it will help keep those leptin levels higher as if you were not dieting.
04-17-2018, 12:41 PM
04-17-2018, 03:43 PM
As our fat cells shrink, leptin levels go in reverse and drop. This obviously increases our hunger, but also is an underlying mechanism for the "metabolic slowdown" that supposedly happens with dieting. This leptin drop creates a double-edged sword - our metabolism is slower and we are hungrier. If you have ever been on a severe diet with lots of exercise for a period of time - you may have one day woken up and been ravenous and out-of-control with your cravings for things - that's an extreme effect of leptin dropping.
One way to combat this leptin drop is to have cheat meals - which are great but they have to be infrequent and even if they are infrequent they will set your caloric deficit back a little. Most people accept this because it's 1 step back and 2 steps forward.
If you are very lean (near or below 10% for instance), then leptin will be low because you have so little fat on your body - which also increases hunger and causes a more aggressive response to caloric restriction. I hate to use the term starvation mode but it's the basic idea.
And if you are extremely obese you probably have a lot of leptin floating around but it no longer works - you have become resistant to its effects because it has been elevated so much for so long.
What epitome does is "normalize" leptin levels. So if you are obese and have elevated leptin, it will actually help lower the leptin levels and combat the leptin resistence that is seen.
If you are lean, it will bring up leptin levels even though you have low bodyfat (which is why some people claim it is such a great appetite suppresant)
And if you use it long-term during a diet, it will help to avoid the leptin crashes from dieting, which will allow you to not require as many cheat meals and thus not have to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward - you can just keep dieting and leptin will stay in range.
So, it's not exactly a "fat burner" per se - it's just part of the arsenal. It's a very different approach than you see in any other product, in my humble opinion.
But for straight appetite suppression, a single stand-alone burner, other products may at least promise more.
04-18-2018, 11:14 AM
Once you’re sub 18% tho and especially if you’re eating keto or otherwise low-carb (<75g a day) then epitome will be useful. I haven’t tried it yet myself but theoretically it looks like a great product and I’ll be using it during my next cut. It’ll also be useful if, like me, eating 150g+ carbs without substantial fat or fructose or sucrose, a day on the regular is hard for you
I’m keen to hear what folks who’ve tried epitome have to say about it
04-18-2018, 12:19 PM
04-18-2018, 08:54 PM
With that said, you really need to play around and see what works best. If you are going 3 or 4 weeks with no cheats or refeeds, then you might want to try not using a GDA or similar and see how your body reacts.
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