PCT natty anabolic or anticatabolic approach

goodvibes

goodvibes

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So I have about 3 weeks left on my cycle. Planning this pct besides the serms, I'm just choosing between a natty anabolic like ABE/ARA vs. a good anticatabolic agent HMB-FA (clear muscle).

I would stack them but I'm trying to minimize the cost. I'm leaning towards clear muscle since it is the healthier option. A pro inflammatory compound like ara isn't really a "healthy" supplement. Another option would be follidrone, only thing is I don't have that in hand so I have to do a separate purchase. Can someone sway me to go ara/abe? My mind is open to other suggestions :)
 
goodvibes

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Here's my layout:

SERM: week 1-4
Ar1macare pro: 4 weeks
HMB-FA: 12 week cycle
Reduce xt: weeks 3-6
DAA: weeks 1-4
MK677: all year until I run out
PA (fearns): all year @ 1-1.5g/day

If i choose abe/ara it would be 50 workout days starting on the 1st day of pct.

Others: coq10, ashwaganda ksm66, fish oil, vitd3 5kiu/day, taurine 8g/day.
 
goodvibes

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Admin I know I mentioned some compounds not intended for this section but the main focus of this discussion is between natty anabolics vs hmb-fa. Thanks!
 
LeanEngineer

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In my opinion you will get better results with an ara/abe rather than a clear muscle run. I've ran two bottles of clear and i;be ran ara/abe before and my results from my ara/abe stack were way better.
 

NewAgeMayan

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You might be able to find some cheap bulk calcium form HMB, thats another option (as an extra to the ABE/ArA).
 
JudoJosh

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If I had to pick out of the two I would go with ABE as it would help you get back to baseline faster IMO
 
goodvibes

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Didn't know this would be a one sided vote. Honestly I respect each and every one of you that I might run the abe/ara and use the hmb-fa for a cut with f95.
 
kboxer7

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Here's my layout:

SERM: week 1-4
Ar1macare pro: 4 weeks
HMB-FA: 12 week cycle
Reduce xt: weeks 3-6
DAA: weeks 1-4
MK677: all year until I run out
PA (fearns): all year @ 1-1.5g/day

If i choose abe/ara it would be 50 workout days starting on the 1st day of pct.

Others: coq10, ashwaganda ksm66, fish oil, vitd3 5kiu/day, taurine 8g/day.
Thought about adding in high-ish dose Schizandra? I feel like it helped me retain when I was off with my wrist fracture. Inhibits muscle degradation factors and increases MPS.

Also, calcium bound HMB works wonders for anti-catabolic purposes. No NEED for HMB-FA for that purpose. However, HMB-FA will aid more in actually building muscle and in leaning out a tad, whereas Ca bound HMB will just aid in anti-catabolism.

In good time OL will have something to help you Endur3 though : )
 
The_Old_Guy

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I'd say grab a Kilo of HMB-CA from Blackburn for $50. I've made it a staple. In addition to anti-catabolism, the latest research in elite rowers found:

What the analyses of these data revealed was quite conclusive: The provision of "regular" calcium HMB at a dosage of "only" 3g/day had a highly significant "advantageous effect on the increase in aerobic capacity and the reduction of fat mass" (Durkalec-Michalsky. 2015)
That's a 333 day supply by the way :)

Edit: Found another for LBM increases too:

Regular Ca-HMB Boosts Strength and Performance in Elite Athletes - Increased Performance Gains on High Volume Routines Confirm: HMB Excels On Insane Workouts.

With HMB you got to hit it hard! Considering the fact that the study at hand provides further evidence that HMB works (at least partly) by reducing the training induced actual muscle damage and thus speeding up the supercompensation response, I would like to remind you what I said about the previously mentioned Wilson study, already: HMB appears to excel, when you're training at the verge of doing so much that your progress is threatened by the way you train.

Plus: With the study at hand, we have (as I also suspected) the evidence that it doesn't have to be "free acid" or "free form" HMB to see results. The 2-3g of regular HMB that were spread equally on three doses (morning, afternoon, and evening) worked as well

Ferreira, Heros Ribeiro, et al. "Effects of 12-Weeks of Supplementation with β-Hydroxy-β-Methylbutrate-Ca (HMB-Ca) on Athletic Performance." Journal of Exercise Physiology 18.2 (2015).
 
Bigdumogre

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HMB is a amazing ingredient
Just need to train harder since over reaching is where it shines. If you do your normal routine you will gain little benefit from hmb.
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

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Thought about adding in high-ish dose Schizandra? I feel like it helped me retain when I was off with my wrist fracture. Inhibits muscle degradation factors and increases MPS.

Also, calcium bound HMB works wonders for anti-catabolic purposes. No NEED for HMB-FA for that purpose. However, HMB-FA will aid more in actually building muscle and in leaning out a tad, whereas Ca bound HMB will just aid in anti-catabolism.
I acquired the hmb-fa for a good price that's why I wanted to try it out. It wasn't after I bought it that I started seeing post about CA bound HMB. Schizandra I'm not familiar with too but I started reading about it this morning when I saw your post.

For PCT I know I will not be able to acquire additional lbm that's why I was leaning towards HMB-FA to help me preserve what I had gained during this cycle. As others had mentioned though the Ara/abe combination might aid me better for pct so I might move towards that option. I did achieve my heaviest weight under the ara/abe combo even though it was mostly fats I was still strong
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

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I'd say grab a Kilo of HMB-CA from Blackburn for $50. I've made it a staple. In addition to anti-catabolism, the latest research in elite rowers found:



That's a 333 day supply by the way :)

Edit: Found another for LBM increases too:
Great info The_Old_Guy, I'll definitely pick that up and run it for my summer cut/recomp after I run out of hmb-fa
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

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HMB is a amazing ingredient
Just need to train harder since over reaching is where it shines. If you do your normal routine you will gain little benefit from hmb.
I probably can't train any harder even if I wanted to. My volume is off the charts at the moment (of course based off my personal history). I won't gain any additional lbm from hmb-fa I already know this, after all I'll be coming off a heavy stacked cycle. I'm using it to preserve what I got, my body is definitely going to overreach this pct ;)
 
Grambo

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I acquired the hmb-fa for a good price that's why I wanted to try it out. It wasn't after I bought it that I started seeing post about CA bound HMB. Schizandra I'm not familiar with too but I started reading about it this morning when I saw your post.

For PCT I know I will not be able to acquire additional lbm that's why I was leaning towards HMB-FA to help me preserve what I had gained during this cycle. As others had mentioned though the Ara/abe combination might aid me better for pct so I might move towards that option. I did achieve my heaviest weight under the ara/abe combo even though it was mostly fats I was still strong
I think you're on the right track here. I don't think people need to go crazy with supplements in PCT. A few simple things to get natural production back quickly (what helps the most on keeping gains) and use the natural anabolic a at a different time. Not that you couldn't use them or they wouldn't help but I think they'd shine more outside PCT.
 
Grambo

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Also on some HMB I've used taste isn't exactly the best haha how's that kilo in that department?
 
JudoJosh

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I probably can't train any harder even if I wanted to. My volume is off the charts at the moment (of course based off my personal history).
Sounds like you could use some better programming.
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

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Sounds like you could use some better programming.
Maybe, switching up routine feels like a big step back at times but I know a few that works well. Fst7 I like and mostly high volume. The draw back of a pure strength training program for me is the lack of volume so the bodybuilding type of training that I love gets lost. If.i do a pure bodybuilding type of programming the strength part gets lost too.
 
goodvibes

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I still want to lift strong but with loads of volume.
 
JudoJosh

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Maybe, switching up routine feels like a big step back at times but I know a few that works well. Fst7 I like and mostly high volume. The draw back of a pure strength training program for me is the lack of volume so the bodybuilding type of training that I love gets lost. If.i do a pure bodybuilding type of programming the strength part gets lost too.
The key is to understand how the variables (set,rep,intensity) involved and how to manipulate them to increase total volume load in a progressive manner so that you are pretty close to and sometimes passing your maximal recoverable volume load
 
The_Old_Guy

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HMB-CA tastes like powdered battery acid, but if you mix it in anything, you can't taste it.... But I usually do it straight with a water chaser anyway. It isn't that bad to me.
 
The_Old_Guy

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goodvibes and anyone else, I saw last night that Bulk Supplements on Amazon now has bulk HMB-CA. No need to import it from the UK via Blackburn Industries anymore - and you save about $8 :)
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

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goodvibes and anyone else, I saw last night that Bulk Supplements on Amazon now has bulk HMB-CA. No need to import it from the UK via Blackburn Industries anymore - and you save about $8 :)
I want to try hmb-fa since I already have a lot. If it treats me well ill jump into bulk ca bound hmb. Thanks for the info!
 

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