i just designed the perfect preworkout in my head :-)

[redman24]

so here it comes, ultimate preworkout, geranamine free. who will help me realease it? price would be about 500 dollars probably. haha

vitamin c 1000mg
methylcobalamin 10.000mcg

creatine nitrate 3 grams
beta-alanine 4 grams
citrulline malate 5 grams
l-carnitine-l-tartrate 2 grams
agmatine sulfate 1 gram
magnesium malate (not sure on dosage)
coenzyme q10 (also not sure)

caffeine 300mg
theobromine 200mg
tyrosine 3 grams
sulbutiamine 600mg
r-n-benzyl-alphaphenylethylamine (not sure on dosage)

waddaya think?

 

[Rodja]

Good luck on flavoring. Sulbutiamine is amongst the worst tasting supplements ever. I made the mistake of not parachuting it and added it to some Xtend and VasoCharge. It made the drink disgusting and I couldn't finish it.

 

[redman24]

true, i have some here. still not as bad as hmb though, imo...lol

 

[JN230]

explain parachuting technique please

 

[Rodja]

Dump desired amount into a piece on single ply TP, fold, and swallow.

 

[Hawk]

^

I was always under the assumption parachuting a pill (powder) meant that you wrap up in a something that will dissolve in your stomach, saving you the terrible taste.


ETA:

Rodja beat me to it!

 

[Orangatang]

10mcg of methyl cobalamin lol....yeah this shiits gonna be expensive

 

[JN230]

AH so its TP gotcha! that was what I was wondering

 

[AtomicFox]

That would be an awesome formula. A bit too much caffeine imo, 200mg would do. You can always add more

 

[determination]

I would lower the caffeine to 150mg and add cordyceps, alcar and plcar. Other than that it looks very nice.

 

[redman24]

sure, everyone has personal preferances. i would even suggest for a company to make a preworkout base and offer various separate stims to stack, so one can choose according to their liking.

 

[Powercage]

Way too much beta alanine for one dose.

Drop it down to 2g and you are at a better dose of BA for preworkout

Preworkouts that advertise 4g of BA in one dose dont really understand how BA works. Altho 4g is a great range for daily dosing, you want to spread that out...not all at once

 

[Powercage]

Good luck on flavoring. Sulbutiamine is amongst the worst tasting supplements ever. I made the mistake of not parachuting it and added it to some Xtend and VasoCharge. It made the drink disgusting and I couldn't finish it.

He couldnt flavor that due to the citrulline malate content alone. Tangcity here we come

 

[holmes215]

I always thought adding DAA at 3gms would be a great addition to a preworkout supplement. Surprised no companies have done it.

 

[redman24]

okay im putting it in along with 50mg halotestin.

 

[Clickster]

The price would be outrageous for sure. haha!

 

[NavyMuscle29]

Let me start off by saying i am in the Military and i by no means make alot of money... but i dont see why people are so concerned with price and/or taste... If there was an awesome product out there.. i mean perfect product.. such as mesomorph + ultima.. i would pay 120 bucks for it.. even if it was only 25-30 servings. And taste.. who the f.. cares.. the **** could tast like chalky acidic testicles for all i care, but if it works and blows away everything else then does it matter? These are workout supplements, not deserts and flavorings. I really wish a company would step up and go against the grain and produce something truely remarkable regardless of taste and price.. the only problem i see is that although this would be great for the serious minded athlete... i seriously question if sales and marketing would be on par because unfortunately the majority of people i feel, do not have the same mindset.

 

[Powercage]

I always thought adding DAA at 3gms would be a great addition to a preworkout supplement. Surprised no companies have done it.

They have...

 

[Clickster]

Let me start off by saying i am in the Military and i by no means make alot of money... but i dont see why people are so concerned with price and/or taste... If there was an awesome product out there.. i mean perfect product.. such as mesomorph + ultima.. i would pay 120 bucks for it.. even if it was only 25-30 servings.

I would like to start off by saying thank you for your service. I for one very much appreciate it.

I understand where you were going with what you are saying. But I am willing to bet that most including myself would never pay $120 for a 25-30 serving preworkout.

We also tend to forget that companies have to purchase all of this before they ever get anything in return. I believe it would be a very small group of individuals that would find a preworkout mix worthy enough of $120+ dollars for a 25-30 serving tub. Any company would lose on it.

 

[NavyMuscle29]

SNS Thanks! Just a job.. but it makes me feel good to know i am appretiated.

Yeah i completely understand.. and you would lose on it, your absolutely correct.. thats the problem... i think people priorities arent in line lol.. But you know.. i guess if i cant find a mesomorph+ultima for 120 bucks.. i could always buy both for 90... lol.

For me i would rather pay for quality and not cut corners. Its very rare you find a complete supplement, and its exhausting taking 10 different things from 10 different companies every day. Companies like True-Protein allow you to make your own mixes of course, but even their resources are limited, and cannot provide all of the different substances to appease every consumer.

 

[NavyMuscle29]

Redman.. btw, didnt mean to hijack your thread.. that looks like a great supplement... you've really thought this one out. one thing i would add is some phosphodytal serine though.

 

[redman24]

no worries man, and actually it was just a spontaneous idea. i think some dosages could be slightly lowered and other ingredients added to make it even more complete. this was just a sort of, put a lot of everything good in appproach.
many suggestions have been good, but i think the problem mostly with creating the perfect supplement is cost. looking at applied nutriceuticals for example, i am quite impressed with the product formulators ability to make low doses of ingredients effective in a good synergy. still, if one takes 12 caps of drive for example its incredible, but cannot be recommended for most, since it would exceed their budget.

so i wonder if a brand commiting to produce the absolute best of the best at of course also high prices would stand a chance of staying in business. maybe if elite level athletes would start using the products.

 

[NavyMuscle29]

Just out of curiosity.. how did you come to hold that opinion of applied nutricuticals? I am not saying that i have a contradicting opinion, i am just not too familiar with their products as i tend to stick with something once it works for me. Their supplements, although containing tried and true ingredients, seem pretty basic. Have you ever tried APS or Omega products and if so, how do they compare?

 

[redman24]

well, i can say that drive is great, rpm is great, and hghup is the only formula of its kind that makes a lot of sense. the products do some basic at first, but they really either turn out to be more than the sum of their parts or are actually so basc because those basic things work very well in synergy.
at first i actually thought they were a scam company due to sarm-claims etc. but after reading a bit more on an (2009) i started to see this is not the case and tried rpm and drive. drive at 12 caps put more quality on me in a given time frame than testosterone/masteron so what can i say...

omega is a great brand and aps has potential but i dont really like the fact that they took sulbutiamine and icariin out of meso, two ingredients that i have very good experience with.

 

[redman24]

ha!
i just ordered some superpump max and cm2 nitrate and realised that these combined with the nos ether i still have here are almost what i had in mind above. lets see how it goes.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

I always thought adding DAA at 3gms would be a great addition to a preworkout supplement. Surprised no companies have done it.

a few have and a lot of companies off the radar are ding it as well besdies your more mainstream stuff like Lit up and that napalm stuff or whatever.

 

[JudgementDay]

Good luck on flavoring. Sulbutiamine is amongst the worst tasting supplements ever. I made the mistake of not parachuting it and added it to some Xtend and VasoCharge. It made the drink disgusting and I couldn't finish it.

Agreed! I put 600mg in my pre-workout 2 times last week and now I have to cap it, horrible taste!

 

[redman24]

haha, how i was a forum scientist back then, with my beautiful pre.

now i have come a long way have actually formulated a preworkout for a company, the design for the label is currently being made.

the cost in raws was already about 50% of the retail price, without even the container...lol.

but here is something that could do nicely. i will not tell the formulas i have designed that may be made this year so i am just making up someting else.

2 grams l-carnitine fumarate and 1 gram arginocarn
1.5 grams agmapure
100mg pterostilbene
2 grams creatinol-o-posphate
200mg ubiquinol
40mg pqq
300mg niagen

2 grams dl-phenylalanine
1 gram chocamine
300mg caffeine
the pea derivative that was in penadrine. r-n-benzy-alpha-phenyletylamine i think. dosage i think around 500mg but not fully sure
400mg bcm-95 curcumin
40mg coumaroyldopamine

200mcg selenium
1mg methylcobalamin
100mg p-5-p

forget pricing, let's play a game, designing the perfect supps. any category you like, any ingredients and dosages you want. just wanna see peoples ideas

 

[redman24]

450mg sensoril and 100mg laxogenin post-workout. then 2 caps burn24 followed with a 14 inch pizza and one container of häagen-dasz.

 

[mr.cooper69]

God bless the company you formulate for

 

[redman24]

well, that is not a formula that anyone could afford to make, but tell me what's wrong with it.
the one that will be released soon certainly got better feedback from the people who tested it than enhanced. actually most said they preferred it to craze or any other of their past favourites due to the euphoria and pronounced strength gains.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I'm sure it outperformed ethamphetamine, really.

 

[DarthGainer]

haha, how i was a forum scientist back then, with my beautiful pre.

Was?

 

[Synapsin]

Oh lord, this again.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

add some gplc

 

[redman24]

i don't get much performance enhancement from amphetamines actually. craze didn't make me stronger for example.
i would also not train on mdma, and craze fet way too serotonergic for me, gave me lack of aggression to lift.

maximize intense with dmaa gave me much more strength gains for example.

actually even cocaine isn't a great performance enhancer for lifting. i find dmaa or ephedrine more effective than those.
amphetamines are much more clean and dextroamphetamine for example doesn't give me as much of a physical boost as some preworkouts do.
but even then the aphetamines only work through cns stimulation and there are more pathways to performance increases, of course you know that. maybe craze allowed for much longer sessions without fatigue but didn' give me the strength gains other products did.

 

[redman24]

i know you think somehow i have no clue because i once made some articulattive mistake on something about gaba-receptors i think...

i just found this thread and had to laugh at what i thought was good years ago was just putting together a bunch of popular ingredients in high doses.

now i thought it would be interesting what people would like to see in a formula, if money was no object and how they wouls formulate it.
could be anything, nootropic, energy pill, nutrient partitioner, non-stim pre etc.

interested in peoples ideas, especially for my own use, as i am willing to spend quite a bit of money for certain things. like life extensions mitochondrial energy optimizer i think is a good product, but maybe someone could come up with something similar but better.
for example something for mental energy and against chronic fatigue, without just being high stim.

i know companies are limited in their ingredient usage by cost but one can personally ix their own product if it has a specific benefit.
for example i wonder how useful niagen would be for chronic fatigue and if it would effect mental performance as well as workout performance.

just would like to know what people would use if they could afford it or get hold of the substances, as many are not sold as single ingredients and would have to be ordered at least at 1kg or so. somebody i know is getting amentoflavone and cistanche from hongkong i think and they actually sell smaller amounts and he is happy with the quality.

it's not my fault and not an attack on pes that 3 of my friends didn't notice much from enhanced even at 3 scoops (me included), granted the eu-version.
for me the most effective single product pre is nutraclipse alphadrive i would say, it has a unique feel.

i would like to see how people would for example supplement if money and availability was not an issue.

 

[redman24]

oh, my girlfriend actually liked alphamine a lot for a while but i think there mayy have been some formula change at some point?
i am also willing to test anabeta elite along ostarine and formadrive after my upcoming short aas cycle. used osta/forma before so could definitely tell the effects.
i also use amentomax regularly so no hating on pes.

i always found anabeta and especially the elite version interesting, i just didn't respond to enhanced and erase pro. that said the only ai that works for me is formestane (or letro), arimidex was no better than erase pro, so it may be an individual thing.

 

[redman24]

just found this again and mr.cooper writes ethamphetamine. there was no aMphetamine though, as there was no Methyl Group but an Ethyl. it would have to be called aephetamine really.

btw i just bought some enhanced for 8 euros from the netherlands. must have been a big success over there

what bothers me is that companies speak about science and the right formulas and ratios etc, when the truth is that most products are just formulated to work somehow without costing too much.

or why don't companies put 120mg of amentoflavone in there products or 3 grams of l-carnitine-fumarate or 200mg ubiquinol?
oh wait, Olympus labs doses there products adequately. 20 grams of actives instead of about 3. i am sure they make less Profit this way and could make more buy using less ingredients and dosages but they want to make the best products.

i see People loving komodo katana. to me it is a completely underdosed product. citrulline too low, amento way too low, some agmatine, caffeine and choline. wow and he Claims to have made the best pre in the world. i guarantee Olympus conquer demigod beats it by a mile.

 

[Matthew1237]

Haha Driven2lift - he sounds like us. Oh the joys of making supplements in your head. Where money is infinite and flavoring doesn't matter.

 

[xhrr]

I'm not even gonna read the replys to this gem but I just wanted to say my favorite part was reading "I just designed the best pre workout in my head" yet isn't sure of the dosages in nearly half the ingredients. Nailed it bro. ****ing nailed it.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

so here it comes, ultimate preworkout, geranamine free. who will help me realease it? price would be about 500 dollars probably. haha

vitamin c 1000mg
methylcobalamin 10.000mcg

creatine nitrate 3 grams
beta-alanine 4 grams
citrulline malate 5 grams
l-carnitine-l-tartrate 2 grams
agmatine sulfate 1 gram
magnesium malate (not sure on dosage)
coenzyme q10 (also not sure)

caffeine 300mg
theobromine 200mg
tyrosine 3 grams
sulbutiamine 600mg
r-n-benzyl-alphaphenylethylamine (not sure on dosage)

waddaya think?

that looks like a lot of preworkouts, minus the sulbutiamine, which over 50mg will make that taste horrible.

Also Id reduce the tyrosine, go with 30-50mg coq-10, but every 20mg will damn near increase the price like 20% overall.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Wait hahaha...after I replied I'm like, this must b hella old, it say DMAA free...then I looked...2011....wow, but it looks like most
preworkouts on the market now.

 

[redman24]

funny, just the other day i was wondering if getdiesel still exists. are you still making products?

what do you think of the new brawn products? i cannot post links so just Google brawn Nutrition elite series.

this is the preworkout: Creatinol-o-phosphate: 2grams
Trimethylglycine: 2500mg
Dlpa:2000 mg
Sulbutiamine: 600mg
N-methyl-betamethylphenylethyamine: 100mg
Amp-citrate: 300mg
Caffeine: 300mg
Theanine: 200mg
Sensoril: 225mg
Pterostilbene: 100mg

and this the fatburner/pre for People who want lots of Stimulation and thermogenisis:
Alcar: 1 gram
N-acetyl-tyrosine: 750mg
Caffeine: 150mg
Selaginella tamariscina (20% amentoflavone): 200mg
Theophylline: 50mg
Higenamine: 40mg
Alpha-yohimbine: 2mg
3,5 diiodo-l-thyronine: 300mcg



you may have noticed how most products These days seem to cost only a few Dollars to make and have only a few grams of actives. the preworkout for example is probably the most expensive one to produce on the market next to Olympus conquer demigod. i liked that non stim-pre you made, forgot the Name, but it turned into a brick quite quickly...lol

 

[redman24]

the Thing ist companies always Claim their stuff to be the best. if it was up to me i would add another 4 or so high dosed ingrdients to the pre (which will come into the upgrade if it makes enough Money). then the total weight will increase by another 8-9 grams or so.
i could reduce the weight of the stim blend though if i was allowed to use a certain pea-derivative and phenylpiracetam, then the non.stim blend would only Need 3 ingredients, one for strength, one endurance and one pumps and muscle growth as the Performance from the stims will outperform eca, dmaa, even dexamphetamine. (yes i have used them all). but i think i can't use that pea-form and neither phenylpiracetam. going to have to make the Indians design some new stuff for me when i go travelling there in winter...

 

[redman24]

you wouldn't test the ratios of ingredients then before releasing a product? also that was very old...(this is to the guy saying "doesn't know half the dosages)

 

[xhrr]

you wouldn't test the ratios of ingredients then before releasing a product? also that was very old...(this is to the guy saying "doesn't know half the dosages)

You said you had the perfect pre workout. It should be a finished and finalized product no? It's obviously not the perfect pre workout if it isn't even finished yet.

 

[redman24]

it was just a spontaneous idea, i wasn't really serious then. but at the time it contained basically the best that was available. i wouldn't use beta-Alanine These days for example and different forms of carnitine etc.

i made 5 samples some time ago with 19 grams of actives and sent them to a few Forum members in Germany. all said it was the best they tried. cost me about 8 euros to make per sample...
i guess a Company could get it much cheaper though. i am just unsure how many People will pay for th best rather than something that still works but is a lot cheaper. i know some would pay 3 Dollars per serving but i think most wouldn't and it's why i think companies make products that are not as good as they could be. which is sad because People spend 3 Dollars here and there on the most useless crap including Cups of coffee etc.
so what we end up with is a product that costs 50% of ist retail Price in raws so consumers buy it, while other companies probably only invest 10%. probably a lot goes into Marketing too. i just know by now that many raws aren't as expensive as claimed, so i don't understand why so many companies still underdose. really using 3 grams of lc-fumarate isn't that much more expensive than 1 gramm of lclt. but i guess every penny Counts...

 

[Chuck Diesel]

funny, just the other day i was wondering if getdiesel still exists. are you still making products?

what do you think of the new brawn products? i cannot post links so just Google brawn Nutrition elite series.

this is the preworkout: Creatinol-o-phosphate: 2grams
Trimethylglycine: 2500mg
Dlpa:2000 mg
Sulbutiamine: 600mg
N-methyl-betamethylphenylethyamine: 100mg
Amp-citrate: 300mg
Caffeine: 300mg
Theanine: 200mg
Sensoril: 225mg
Pterostilbene: 100mg

and this the fatburner/pre for People who want lots of Stimulation and thermogenisis:
Alcar: 1 gram
N-acetyl-tyrosine: 750mg
Caffeine: 150mg
Selaginella tamariscina (20% amentoflavone): 200mg
Theophylline: 50mg
Higenamine: 40mg
Alpha-yohimbine: 2mg
3,5 diiodo-l-thyronine: 300mcg



you may have noticed how most products These days seem to cost only a few Dollars to make and have only a few grams of actives. the preworkout for example is probably the most expensive one to produce on the market next to Olympus conquer demigod. i liked that non stim-pre you made, forgot the Name, but it turned into a brick quite quickly...lol

Yep still making stuff and back on AM since Jan 2015, also that non stim-pre was NOS ETHER. Came back out a few months ago, no more bricks. getdiesel.com. Also I will look up that company, looks like a strong stim preworkout. Is 600mg of sulbutiamine correct?

The fat burner seems ok also. A lot of fat burners are not thermogenics anymore, so most people buy them on how hyper will will get.
This is one of the few fat burners that is now full of caffeine. There's a company, I think they make Hyde, there is like 350mg per cap
of caffeine in their fat burner. I'd say that preworkout, just looking at it, which I don't like to do (just eyeball a product) would be one
of the strongest stim preworkout avail.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

it was just a spontaneous idea, i wasn't really serious then. but at the time it contained basically the best that was available. i wouldn't use beta-Alanine These days for example and different forms of carnitine etc.

i made 5 samples some time ago with 19 grams of actives and sent them to a few Forum members in Germany. all said it was the best they tried. cost me about 8 euros to make per sample...
i guess a Company could get it much cheaper though. i am just unsure how many People will pay for th best rather than something that still works but is a lot cheaper. i know some would pay 3 Dollars per serving but i think most wouldn't and it's why i think companies make products that are not as good as they could be. which is sad because People spend 3 Dollars here and there on the most useless crap including Cups of coffee etc.
so what we end up with is a product that costs 50% of ist retail Price in raws so consumers buy it, while other companies probably only invest 10%. probably a lot goes into Marketing too. i just know by now that many raws aren't as expensive as claimed, so i don't understand why so many companies still underdose. really using 3 grams of lc-fumarate isn't that much more expensive than 1 gramm of lclt. but i guess every penny Counts...

Other stuff goes into products such as labels, bottles, lids, dissicants, excipeients, blending (which is an art in itself because you have to get like 50,000 servings of a run to all be within 5% of any other random serving), then there are fixed cost such as the lab people, work in progress, raws storage. So for instance, a product may have $8 in raw, but cost a company $13 to make, then they have to add their markup, plus every distributor and retailer wants everything shipped to them for free, and it could cost like $2-$4 to ship one container of a preworkout (to a store ordering like 3 bottles) (which is why all this micro dosing came about, it saves money on shipping, packaging, etc.)

Also I've seen companies shave .10 off the cost of a product, bc if they have heavy distribution, .10 on 10k units a month is 1k a month saved.

Also marketing on some products cost more than the product. Some big mags charge 5k a page. Most of the cost is based on what quality of product you want as an end result. You can have Isuzu build your car, or Ferrari. If you home brew 10 servings of a product, send it to a lab for testing, pay people to bottle it in bulk, palatalize it, pay FedEx to ship it, etc etc it adds up.