time OFF: and healthy use of AAS

[pudzian2]

I dont think there has been a thread concerning this specific issue:

I am looking to hear from experienced users, and anyone else who wishes to comment.

When one uses AAS for longer cycles; 12-16 weeks, and follows up with a flawless PCT etc. How long are these gains maintainable after they are functioning solely on their own endocrine and test production (and maybe the use of other anabolics - anti-catabolics) . I would imagine it's only a matter of time before all the gains disappear, as the body is not designed to hold the weight obtained by artificially boosting androgen levels.

it wouldn't make much sense to take your health into your own hands, drain your wallet, and invest time and effort into growing while ON, just to take lot's of time OFF and start loosing what you have accomplished.

HEALTH is #1 priority here, but there must be a happy medium for people. It's probably best to go by blood work, but how long does the average user take off Assuming blood work is in line shortly after PCT is through?

I'm addressing those who are interested in continual growth towards a specific goal (example: being a professional bodybuilder). I'm sure most of the pro's stay on high TRT doses while ""OFF"" but for someone still interested in cycling, what is recommended?

 

[DavidCream]

Rule of Thumb: Time ON + PCT = Time Off, I run stacks on my winter and summer breaks usually a smaller one in winter and a longer one in summer although im doing it backwards this year due to the Bulk Bold.

 

[pudzian2]

gotcha and I am aware of the general rule of thumb. I do however, disagree that this amount of time is necessary, as one will most likely be tossing back and forth between gaining and loosing. I will most likely just go by my blood work. Once it's stabilized when OFF I will give it a bit of time with the advice of a doctor and then go back on.

I think its important that I establish my goal: I am training to one day become a professional Bodybuilder. If this doesnt work out, I would still like to be competitive, and train \ promote and work in the fitness industry as an athlete or model. (part time maybe)...anyway. I was just interested in what most continual and experienced users do to keep their progress moving in a constant positive direction

 

[T-Bone]

gotcha and I am aware of the general rule of thumb. I do however, disagree that this amount of time is necessary, as one will most likely be tossing back and forth between gaining and loosing. I will most likely just go by my blood work. Once it's stabilized when OFF I will give it a bit of time with the advice of a doctor and then go back on.

I think its important that I establish my goal: I am training to one day become a professional Bodybuilder. If this doesnt work out, I would still like to be competitive, and train \ promote and work in the fitness industry as an athlete or model. (part time maybe)...anyway. I was just interested in what most continual and experienced users do to keep their progress moving in a constant positive direction

I would guess that they eat and train correctly. I understand they are on un-godly amounts of gear though also, and they are not very healthy in my opinion.

 

[lifted]

It's all going to depend on how much muscle your body can hold/achieve naturally. Everyone is gonna be different.

Myself, I can get away with doing one cycle a year (usually a 14 weeker) and then hold a moderate weight of 250-260. Since I've started cycling, the longest I've went w/o using gear was 22 months. I was still able to hold onto 235-240lbs. w/ good diet/training.

But w/o a doubt, for me to push the 250-260lb. mark, I gotta get a cycle in me at least once/year, unless I decide to hold more fat on me, which I don't... The biggest I've been is right now (at the end of my current cycle) and weighing in at 275, and I feel fatter than ****, don't wanna ever be this heavy again, plus it's just unhealthy. I thought I could get away w/ it and doing it this time w/ less fat, but no-go. Within a few more months, I'll be back down to 260 again and slowly tapering back down even more. Just the way my body is and gotta accept it.

 

[B5150]

When one uses anabolic steroids for longer cycles; 12-16 weeks, and follows up with a flawless post cycle therapy etc.

The thing is, flawless needs be quantified in efficacy. 99% of users on this board have never had bloodwork for any reasons.

I will most likely just go by my blood work. Once it's stabilized when OFF I will give it a bit of time with the advice of a doctor and then go back on.

So how long of a flawless post cycle therapy does it take for a 12-16 week cycle. How long after that PCT does it take to stabilize. Once you have stabilized I would then consider that the beginning of your time off. That is if I were you and I had the aspirations that you outlined.

 

[pudzian2]

The thing is, flawless needs be quantified in efficacy. 99% of users on this board have never had bloodwork for any reasons.So how long of a flawless post cycle therapy does it take for a 12-16 week cycle. How long after that post cycle therapy does it take to stabilize. Once you have stabilized I would then consider that the beginning of your time off. That is if I were you and I had the aspirations that you outlined.

Well those quantities of time were implying that things like "stabilized" would be determined by blood work. I'm just asking what many people with similar aspirations do. Yes I agree Time OFF is after PCT when things are back to normal. But if one wishes not to enter the domain loosing gains, just to go back on and make up for that, than what is a common or average strategy for others>?

 

[B5150]

Well those quantities of time were implying that things like "stabilized" would be determined by blood work. I'm just asking what many people with similar aspirations do. Yes I agree Time OFF is after post cycle therapy when things are back to normal. But if one wishes not to enter the domain loosing gains, just to go back on and make up for that, than what is a common or average strategy for others>?

I guess what I am implying is that I doubt very much that any members here are as insightful as you are and that you may be walking a high road of reasonable and prudent practices where others are just going on whims. Sorry I've become cynical in regard to finding reasonable 'peer' feedback.

 

[pudzian2]

I guess what I am implying is that I doubt very much that any members here are as insightful as you are and that you may be walking a high road of reasonable and prudent practices where others are just going on whims. Sorry I've become cynical in regard to finding reasonable 'peer' feedback.

lol No i completely understand why you may be cynical. I can only imagine (since you've been here for a long while) that you've come across some pretty ignorant and uneducated practices on the boards.

 

[Travis]

Another thing to think about is that recovery will more than likely be more difficult on the following cycle(s) depending on the recovery time prior to your new cycle. Recovery in my mind could possibly be more difficult with each subsequent cycle.

I did not vote however I agree with you that bloodwork would be a good tool in determining your overall health prior to going back ON.

My only problem with bloodwork is that people assume b/c this person did this cycle and their bloodwork looks a certain way then it must equally be true for themselves, therefor they dont feel the need to get bloodwork themselves. This is an unwise assumption imo. Doesnt sound like the route your taking though Pudz...which is a good thing.

 

[pudzian2]

Another thing to think about is that recovery will more than likely be more difficult on the following cycle(s) depending on the recovery time prior to your new cycle. Recovery in my mind could possibly be more difficult with each subsequent cycle.

I did not vote however I agree with you that bloodwork would be a good tool in determining your overall health prior to going back ON.

My only problem with bloodwork is that people assume b/c this person did this cycle and their bloodwork looks a certain way then it must equally be true for themselves, therefor they dont feel the need to get bloodwork themselves. This is an unwise assumption imo. Doesnt sound like the route your taking though Pudz...which is a good thing.

oh no. I actually have a beef with some of the tool's around here that just say "oh it worked for so and so" so it will work for ME@!!! when they don't take into account any of the hundreds of factors that could contribute to this not being true. I would rather do blood work every week than listen to someone I barely know who said they ran superdrol for 56 weeks and drank on weekends but they're blood work was great..

 

[Justincredibl]

Another thing to think about is that recovery will more than likely be more difficult on the following cycle(s) depending on the recovery time prior to your new cycle. Recovery in my mind could possibly be more difficult with each subsequent cycle.

I did not vote however I agree with you that bloodwork would be a good tool in determining your overall health prior to going back ON.

My only problem with bloodwork is that people assume b/c this person did this cycle and their bloodwork looks a certain way then it must equally be true for themselves, therefor they dont feel the need to get bloodwork themselves. This is an unwise assumption imo. Doesnt sound like the route your taking though Pudz...which is a good thing.

I was waiting for someone to write this, and had I joined on this site before ten minutes ago I most definitely would have written a very similar text. The initial paragraph of the above quote is, in my opinion, going to be the overall determining factor in regards to this thread's initial question. And I would add to that, since you've outlined your intention to become (or continue pursuing) a professional Body Builder status, I'll assume (although, I hate making assumptions) that you also intend to train, diet, supplement, and run comparable cycles/post cycles...in which case having your OWN bloodwork done is vital as opposed to relying on information from someone who ran a similar cycle and had THEIR bloodwork done, and just assuming that YOUR body will have responded in the same way.
*I'm sure I didn't need to tell you that, you all seem to be fairly well educated on it here.* ...In which case I've just realized that I really didn't help you at all. My intentions were good though!!! Well...at least I got my first post! sweet.

*DISCLAIMER:* This statement was directed to those who are/were a part of this thread only. It in no way applies to some of the other posters I've seen on this site in my ten minutes aboard. Wow.

 

[AM07]

pudzian, not sure about the question since I don't know much about steroids (IMO though, (Time On + PCT)x2 = Time OFF, but that's just me, maybe it's too overly cautious), but what does your routine look like for your back? I always wondered this because your back is diesel.

 

[Travis]

I was waiting for someone to write this, and had I joined on this site before ten minutes ago I most definitely would have written a very similar text. The initial paragraph of the above quote is, in my opinion, going to be the overall determining factor in regards to this thread's initial question. And I would add to that, since you've outlined your intention to become (or continue pursuing) a professional Body Builder status, I'll assume (although, I hate making assumptions) that you also intend to train, diet, supplement, and run comparable cycles/post cycles...in which case having your OWN bloodwork done is vital as opposed to relying on information from someone who ran a similar cycle and had THEIR bloodwork done, and just assuming that YOUR body will have responded in the same way.
*I'm sure I didn't need to tell you that, you all seem to be fairly well educated on it here.* ...In which case I've just realized that I really didn't help you at all. My intentions were good though!!! Well...at least I got my first post! sweet.

*DISCLAIMER:* This statement was directed to those who are/were a part of this thread only. It in no way applies to some of the other posters I've seen on this site in my ten minutes aboard. Wow.

:toofunny: and :welcome:

 

[pudzian2]

I was waiting for someone to write this, and had I joined on this site before ten minutes ago I most definitely would have written a very similar text. The initial paragraph of the above quote is, in my opinion, going to be the overall determining factor in regards to this thread's initial question. And I would add to that, since you've outlined your intention to become (or continue pursuing) a professional Body Builder status, I'll assume (although, I hate making assumptions) that you also intend to train, diet, supplement, and run comparable cycles/post cycles...in which case having your OWN bloodwork done is vital as opposed to relying on information from someone who ran a similar cycle and had THEIR bloodwork done, and just assuming that YOUR body will have responded in the same way.
*I'm sure I didn't need to tell you that, you all seem to be fairly well educated on it here.* ...In which case I've just realized that I really didn't help you at all. My intentions were good though!!! Well...at least I got my first post! sweet.

*DISCLAIMER:* This statement was directed to those who are/were a part of this thread only. It in no way applies to some of the other posters I've seen on this site in my ten minutes aboard. Wow.

welcome aboard. And funny post. I ONLY go by My OWN blood work just to start. The purpose of this thread was really to recruit those with similar personal goals, and just to toss around some ideas of what has worked well for others. More like food for thought. Like I mentioned earlier, I go by my own blood work and I work privately with my own doctor to keep healthy. It just seemed like a good idea to see what other people have done with success, or plan to do.

 

[pudzian2]

:toofunny: and :welcome:

Trav: I can't get enough of your avatar's hahah

 

[Travis]

Trav: I can't get enough of your avatar's hahah

Trust me....they do wonders during PCT.

 

[pudzian2]

Trust me....they do wonders during post cycle therapy.

haha i'll bet. They do even more wonders when one is on lots of testosterone- & -friends.