Big news!! Commercial Trandermals shutdown by the FDA? Read and Post!!

[windwords7]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=847126#post847126

This is my big time plug for our homebrew headquarters at bb.com. Let's get some more posts over there doing the same. It looks like PAR might be shutdown for good VERY soon by the FDA. Go read it and post mad love for homebrewing!

 

[curt2go]

Holy ****..........

 

[Lifeguard]

done....

That really sucks for him   (but its good for us [specifically Chemo])

 

LG.

 

[Chemo]

hhhmmm...is it a scheme to scare everyone and drum up more sales for his gels?  I doubt the FDA will settle for a simple marketing change to allow future sales.

Chemo

 

[Sir Savage]

Guys, this is no time for shameless plugs (sorry Jake, you're still one of my best bros, so no offense ).

Let's look at what is happening, here. The FDA is going after Avant Labs. Avant Labs, for Christ sake! This is a company that does NOT make outrageous claims, does NOT mislead consumers, and does NOT underdose products, but yet the FDA singles them out, despite all of the companies out there that DO mislead and underdose. It's outrageous. The FDA uses the excuse of "transdermal technology is a drug delivery system, so nobody else can use it". Bullsh*t. At least two other companies have transdermal products. What's really going on here is that Avant makes really good sh*t, and the government can't stand it.

Avant Labs is the company that practically inspired the homebrew phenomenon. The industry needs companies like Avant, so come on, fellas, let's show some respect, unite, and do absolutely everything we can to prevent Avant from being hurt on this one. This is a time for ALL of the prohormone community to unite.

 

[Lifeguard]

Yeah SSX I mentioned Impact Nutrition, Sci-Fit, and BB.com...they all make transdermals...and yet the FDA is not going after them....

 

LG.

 

[Chemo]

SSX, before we can unite the reason for attack has to be disclosed.  They could be after him for marketing it as a "TOPICAL ANABOLIC GEL" or by making the claims like "ONE+ is a specially formulated topical gel, containing both the ultra-potent androgen, 1-testosterone, a compound over 700% more anabolic than testosterone, and the tried and true prohormone 4-AD"

If you notice, the only label claims on my bottles are the ingredients.  I figure that if you don't know what it is then you shouldn't purchase it...no slick marketing strategy for me.

There is a major lawsuit now that inspects the label claims of several companies for their outrageous statements (and, lack of results).  This could be a spin off in anticipation of a precedent decision...so, to alleviate this he would simply remove the word "anabolic" and is good to go.  From his post I suspect this is the case...

Chemo

 

[windwords7]

Savage, no offense taken at all. I agree with you in prinicpal but it's time for the underground to get prepared because commercialy its going to go away at some point for sure. It's tough and I know it effects your buisness but I am also looking at the fact that bb.com will do a 180 and embrace homebrewing again once it's more profitable for them to do so.

 

[Sir Savage]

SSX, before we can unite the reason for attack has to be disclosed.  They could be after him for marketing it as a "TOPICAL ANABOLIC GEL" or by making the claims like "ONE+ is a specially formulated topical gel, containing both the ultra-potent androgen, 1-testosterone, a compound over 700% more anabolic than testosterone, and the tried and true prohormone 4-AD"

I agree Big D, this probably has something to do with it. However, he is careful with his terminology, so as not to cross the line. He uses "Topical", instead of "Transdermal", because, again, "Transdermal" is for drug companies only. "Anabolic" should not be a big deal at all, because there are tons of other companies out there that use this word, as we all know, to make outrageous claims. Furthermore, the second quote you have there, about the description of One+, is not even found on the bottle, it's on his website only. Even so, again, the terminology is correct, and he doesn't make outrageous claims.

I really think what we're seeing is an unfair singling out of Avant, simply because their products work, and work well. After all, if it was only about their marketing, MANY other companies should come way before Avant.

If you notice, the only label claims on my bottles are the ingredients.  I figure that if you don't know what it is then you shouldn't purchase it...no slick marketing strategy for me.

There is a major lawsuit now that inspects the label claims of several companies for their outrageous statements (and, lack of results).  This could be a spin off in anticipation of a precedent decision...so, to alleviate this he would simply remove the word "anabolic" and is good to go.  From his post I suspect this is the case...

Chemo

I sure hope that's the case. Again, though, he doesn't make any outrageous claims on his bottles, nor on his site. We'll see what happens, though. I hope this blows over.

 

[Sir Savage]

Savage, no offense taken at all. I agree with you in prinicpal but it's time for the underground to get prepared because commercialy its going to go away at some point for sure. It's tough and I know it effects your buisness but I am also looking at the fact that bb.com will do a 180 and embrace homebrewing again once it's more profitable for them to do so.

Yep, you're right, man. The underground should start gearing up, for two reasons:

1. Avant might be in trouble.
2. Prohormones may not be legal for too much longer.

I gotcha'.

 

[Bean]

this is ridiculous; it just pushes us more and more towards roids... because if PHs are banned; they won't be much cheaper (if at all) than the real thing

transdermal roids anyone?

 

[pogue]

I don't think this is time to celebrate at all. The same thing could happen to BDC. We all know about the proposed PH ban.

Probably ephedra after that.

More and more the government wants to slowly take away our freedom until we forget what freedom is.

We are all going to have to stand together now or watch it crumble together.

It seems more and more that bodybuilding is turning into an illegal sport.

I say you should probably stock up on whatever you use now before its gone forever.

 

[windwords7]

Originally posted by pogue
I don't think this is time to celebrate at all. The same thing could happen to BDC. We all know about the proposed PH ban.

Who's celebrating?

 

[Monte Cristo]

Kilosports is offering 20 grams of T1 base
for $70. This is well below the market price I have seen.

Unless this price is something I have missed, Kilosports is trying to dump its
supply before it is banned.

The BB.com thread and the Kilo price lead
me to believe that the presure on both
T1 and transdermal is real and will not
be corrected by marketing changes.

I would suggest stocking up on T1 and
gels or TD ingredients.

 

[Rhinoman]

Originally posted by Monte Cristo
Kilosports is offering 20 grams of T1 base
for $70. This is well below the market price I have seen.

Unless this price is something I have missed, Kilosports is trying to dump its
supply before it is banned.

The BB.com thread and the Kilo price lead
me to believe that the presure on both
T1 and transdermal is real and will not
be corrected by marketing changes.

I would suggest stocking up on T1 and
gels or TD ingredients.

I don't think T-1 will be ban, but Andros Perhaps.  If you have a product that there is slight complain, the Federal get involved. Ephedra and Andros are good example of this situation.  In any event there will be always a loop hole around it.  Have faiht on the gray areas of the laws.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Rhino, I don't think Kilo is offering this price out of the goodness of their hearts.
I believe they think a ban is coming.

If I am wrong that this price is not a good bit lower than I recall, that would be different.

I also don't think gray areas apply here.
T1 is an anabolic steroid. It is not at present on the schedule, as a listed
steroid, but that could change.

As to the transdermal delivery system
being prohibited to Avant labs. Should this occur, it would not be long before
it would effect BDC. The FDA could not stop Homebrew because the ingredients are widely used in a variety
of products, but they could stop BDC as there is no doubt whatever that BDC would be NARCed out by someone. Most likely this someone would be a seller or manufacturer of
PHs with no great stake in transdermals or T1.

 

[labrad]

If there is a ban coming, I don't think it is that close (maybe a year). WW7 is tracking the bill so I would not push the panic button yet. Just my opinion.

 

[Monte Cristo]

The PH bill and the present situation are two different things. 1-Test is an anabolic steroid that is not on the classification list with the others. Will, or,
can the FDA place it there and basically
make it the same as Gear?

In the thread at BB.com Avant Labs is
questioned about the Transdermal delivery system as well. I don't read that Par has specific details yet, but since Avant Labs is big in Transdermals
and no one else in the wider world of
PH makers and suppliers is chosen for
enforcement action, it is reasonable to
conclude that the FDA action has something to do with the delivery system.

...this weekend I received a letter from the FDA on our topical ph/steroidals.

I have 10 days left to make changes and inform the FDA in writing of the changes and why. I will be talking to an FDA lawyer this week.

No idea if this will be able to be remedied merely by changing the marketing, or if they will have to be pulled.

I will keep everyone up to date, as I know more.

 

[labrad]

I see the point but for now (even if the FDA cracks down on pre mixed) you could still sell it separate and make a homebrew. Thus my point in not pushing the panic button yet.

 

[wardog]

I guess those of us who dabble in the darker areas have a different perspective. If PH are banned, that is life. Yes it will hurt some companies, but places like this still can sell the plain gel, and we can figure out the rest.

You have enjoyed the "legal" steroids for a while. If they go away, you just have to go the route of the rest of us, if that is how you decide to schieve your goals. Right now, it is the pimply faced little fuckers who ar 14-18 who are screwing things up with prohormones and endephra.

I do not see it happening quickly, and I do not see companies like biotest or ergofarm dropping their prices. When I see ALL PH companies doing blowout sales, then I will take notcie.

Avant has probably made some enemies. This happens in business. Someone said something to start that ball rolling. Stupid supp companies like fucking Biotest ran all these in depth articles and investigations on steroids and their shipping/smuggling methods so that the public cracked down on steroids, with the hope of increasing their sales of PH. This has come back to bite PH manufacturers in the ass. You reap what you sow Bros,. If they are banned, then some of you will have to become educated into "grey areas" a bit more, and have to take risks. Sometimes thats how it goes.

 

[Big H]

SSX, before we can unite the reason for attack has to be disclosed.  They could be after him for marketing it as a "TOPICAL ANABOLIC GEL" or by making the claims like "ONE+ is a specially formulated topical gel, containing both the ultra-potent androgen, 1-testosterone, a compound over 700% more anabolic than testosterone, and the tried and true prohormone 4-AD"

If you notice, the only label claims on my bottles are the ingredients.  I figure that if you don't know what it is then you shouldn't purchase it...no slick marketing strategy for me.

There is a major lawsuit now that inspects the label claims of several companies for their outrageous statements (and, lack of results).  This could be a spin off in anticipation of a precedent decision...so, to alleviate this he would simply remove the word "anabolic" and is good to go.  From his post I suspect this is the case...

Chemo

Good thinking bro. Good thinking.

 

[sage]

If there is a ban coming, I don't think it is that close (maybe a year). WW7 is tracking the bill so I would not push the panic button yet. Just my opinion.

good point. but with the idea of most of the posters on this board having similar goals and ideas about transdermals of ph being said, we all should keep track of what goes on with this issue. Who knows if these recent news and issues surrounding avantlabs and ph use in general is a ploy or the real deal, or maye a little of both, but having threads like this, keeping users informed and posted, is important to say the least. The idea that some people on this board spending their time to follow current issues surrounding possible ban of substance we all use or think about using, thats great. My props goes out to them.

 

[phil216]

Leave it to the Feds to ruin a good thing. Why don't they stop wasting their time cracking down on bodybuilders and go after the crack dealers that live 2 blocks from my parents house. I guess would make sense though so they will never do that.

 

[1Fast400]

Your best bet is to support ANYONE who runs into trouble with all of this. You can homebrew stuff all you want, but it is a little harder when there are no raw materials to buy.

 

[Monte Cristo]

Fine sentiment, 1fast400, but I don't see
what we could do for Par in this situation.
The FDA is going to do what it will regardless.

 

[curt2go]

Would he support us. NO! Talk to ya

 

[1Fast400]

Bash everything you want on this board. Going on bb.com and other boards pushing homebrew everywhere will sit well with Par I'm sure. So if/when something happens to him, I'm sure he wouldn't point to others that are doing the same...especially if they were trying to piss him off.


This is total speculation on my behalf. I have not talked with him about that. I have no clue if he would do such a thing, but it is food for thought.

 

[Monte Cristo]

1Fast400, if that is a threat it is completely gratuitious. If the FDA were
to shut down Par over the transdermal
issue they will get to the rest in due course.

There is very little this board, or any member, can do for or against Par.

 

[curt2go]

It is definately speculation. As far as what he said its just a label change which is no big deal... Talk to ya... 

 

[Rhinoman]

Originally posted by labrad
If there is a ban coming, I don't think it is that close (maybe a year). WW7 is tracking the bill so I would not push the panic button yet. Just my opinion.

 

You can always find the grandfather cluase is to buy before the ban, so most likely merchant will stuck heavily, and when the law takes effect the prices of PH may skyrocket because the are legal to buy due to the grandfather clause, but in the event the ban is to take before and after products then price will be more expensie since it becomes a prohibited sustances in both ways.

 

[Rhinoman]

Originally posted by curt2go
It is definately speculation. As far as what he said its just a label change which is no big deal... Talk to ya... 

 

Darn!  then bottle with the old label can become a collectible item!

 

[ndn diablo]

Originally posted by curt2go
It is definately speculation. As far as what he said its just a label change which is no big deal... Talk to ya... 

People are blowing this up far more then it really should be. Judging by what Par said, all the FDA is asking for is a label change. This type of thing happens in this industry. Par has a given amount of time to change his label and submit it. He will change it and his products will remain on the shelves, done deal.

The only reason the FDA would take ban his products is if they were proven to be dangerous. A little bit of acne and bloating has never gotten a product pulled of the shelves, so there really is not much to worry about here.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

Leave it to the Feds to ruin a good thing. Why don't they stop wasting their time cracking down on bodybuilders and go after the crack dealers that live 2 blocks from my parents house. I guess would make sense though so they will never do that.

because its old news. they like to look like they are doing something

 

[labrad]

Sorry, but I for one do not see the point in fighting with
BB.com.


"Sides, F*ck sides what we need now is a little solidarity". A butchered quote from Reservoir Dogs. Peace.

 

[windwords7]

Originally posted by labrad
Sorry, but I for one do not see the point in fighting with
BB.com.


"Sides, F*ck sides what we need now is a little solidarity". A butchered quote from Reservoir Dogs. Peace.

Agreed, but people keep on coming over and picking them!