Why do some orals take a week to start working?

[jdeity]

I'm on maybe day 7 of halodrol. I've put on about 1.5lbs (tough to be precise, i stopped creatine when i started halo).

Anyways, this seems to be normal, you use it for 4 weeks, and the first week you don't see anything. What is the reason for this?

Seems to me that you should be in the same anabolic environment on day one as you are on day 25, but it totally seems that isn't the case, and i cannot figure out why. If i didn't know better i'd assume that you'd gain 1/4 of the total weight each week evenly, not a slow first/second week, then a good third/fourth. Any insight would be appreciated, this is bugging me

 

[BigMattTx]

It takes time for the hormone levels to build up and reach their peak.

For me, I always notice orals in the first couple days. Usually you get an enhanced pump or something to that effect but after a week or so the full benefits are noticed.

1.5 pounds in a week is pretty good. Usually I lose a couple pounds when coming off creatine so your probably really up 3-4 pounds.

 

[Skye]

The full actions of hormones are not instantaneous. For instance the effects of dbol start pretty much the same week you start it. But the full effect takes about 2 weeks. Given dbol’s half life the build up takes only one day. The rest of the time is simple the amount of time it takes your body to start responding and for the effects of drug to become noticeable. Another one is EQ, you can frontload the hell out of it and it still takes a few weeks to really kick in, that is for effects to become evident.

You could if you wanted to actually list the effects of most steroids by columns starting with immediate effects, mid range, and long term. For instance test can provide a nice pre workout boost on day one (transdermal), noticeable strength gains after the first week to the 2nd or 3rd week, and noticeable muscle growth starting around this time. After a few weeks you could use a blood panel to see some of the longer term items taking effect, (most of these would fall under side affects but they are still an action of the hormone.) These can actually last long past the duration of the cycle. Running a short oral cycle is not really any different except in the details.

 

[xtraflossy]

Just out of curiousity,.. if one were to front load an oral,. .while not a common pratice (on an oral only cycle) would it accomplish reaching substancially higher concerntration that way too?
Ex: First day or two, of an H-50 cycle,. if you dosed 100mg (in 2 doses), then dropeed to normal suggested dosing, would that provide ANY bennifit?
I know that the noticable effects of H-50 take weeks to kick in,.. but would this apply to other orals as well?

 

[Skye]

Just out of curiousity,.. if one were to front load an oral,. .while not a common pratice (on an oral only cycle) would it accomplish reaching substancially higher concerntration that way too?
Ex: First day or two, of an H-50 cycle,. if you dosed 100mg (in 2 doses), then dropeed to normal suggested dosing, would that provide ANY bennifit?
I know that the noticable effects of H-50 take weeks to kick in,.. but would this apply to other orals as well?

I doubt it. It would stress your liver though.

 

[somewhatgifted]

Just out of curiousity,.. if one were to front load an oral,. .while not a common pratice (on an oral only cycle) would it accomplish reaching substancially higher concerntration that way too?
Ex: First day or two, of an H-50 cycle,. if you dosed 100mg (in 2 doses), then dropeed to normal suggested dosing, would that provide ANY bennifit?
I know that the noticable effects of H-50 take weeks to kick in,.. but would this apply to other orals as well?

Im not sure about this, could work, but with my luck it would only kick start the shutdown.

 

[PumpingIron]

Think about front loading it this way...you're basically trying to spike your hormones, quite drastically and then level them out at a higher than normal but much lower plateau...

Doesn't sound very good at all...

The reason designers take a while to kick in is that they need to build up in your body. As soon as you take a pill, it's not going to work, you need to give it a few days...

 

[xtraflossy]

Just a thought :icon_lol:

Thanks!

 

[jdeity]

Think about front loading it this way...you're basically trying to spike your hormones, quite drastically and then level them out at a higher than normal but much lower plateau...

Doesn't sound very good at all...

The reason designers take a while to kick in is that they need to build up in your body. As soon as you take a pill, it's not going to work, you need to give it a few days...

So we ARE assuming half lives at over a day then? If half life is less than a day i don't see how 'building up' is possible really.

 

[Big BAMA]

I didn't really see anything from my halo-50 cycle till the middle of the second week but then it kicked in and the last three have been pretty good. I am in my first week of PCT but still gaining.

 

[PumpingIron]

So we ARE assuming half lives at over a day then? If half life is less than a day i don't see how 'building up' is possible really.

Well I am speaking from personal use. True half lives are short in these designers but I think it has much to do with that fact that they need to build the hormones up. Taking one pill won't spike them overnight, it will take days to build up those levels.

 

[jdeity]

sorry if i'm coming off as dumb, but i can't make sense of your answer. If we agree that our natural test is extremely suppressed, then we should be in agreement that our hormone activity is being taken up by the halodrol. If the halodrol is taking the role of being our chief male hormone now, then its levels in our system are what keep us anabolic. If these pills have, say, a 5 hour half life, then a pill will last under a day, and the levels of this pill would be hte same on day one as they are on day 30.
sorry if your answer answers what i just asked, but i am still not getting why it would be different. I'll compare this to caffeine, which has maybe 5 hr half life. Surely we agree you don't need to use it 4 days in a row to get it to 'optimal' levels. Rather, it just gets there once you use it. I'm not getting why halodrol would differ.

 

[PumpingIron]

sorry if i'm coming off as dumb, but i can't make sense of your answer. If we agree that our natural test is extremely suppressed, then we should be in agreement that our hormone activity is being taken up by the halodrol. If the halodrol is taking the role of being our chief male hormone now, then its levels in our system are what keep us anabolic. If these pills have, say, a 5 hour half life, then a pill will last under a day, and the levels of this pill would be hte same on day one as they are on day 30.
sorry if your answer answers what i just asked, but i am still not getting why it would be different. I'll compare this to caffeine, which has maybe 5 hr half life. Surely we agree you don't need to use it 4 days in a row to get it to 'optimal' levels. Rather, it just gets there once you use it. I'm not getting why halodrol would differ.

I see exactly what youre saying. But in the case of caffiene you aren't replacing anything it is introducing a new compound. Halodrol is changing the way your body works in a sense that it is replacing other hormones to put you in that anabolic state.

But I guess maybe my theory on this could possibly maybe kinda sorta be a bit off. I'm going to do a little more reading into this...

 

[jdeity]

keep me posted, i'm very curious about this.

 

[BigMattTx]

Do some reading up on just what exactly the half-life of a compound means.

Half-life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The levels drop off at an exponential rate. So, lets say something has a 6-hour half-life. You take one cap and 6 hours later, half of it is still floating around. Then, 12 hours later 1/4 of it is still floating around but by that time you are taking another dose. The effect caries over for much longer than just its half-life which is why it takes time for levels to reach their peak.

 

[jdeity]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

wow thanks, dunno why the hell that wasn't obvious when i was thinking of this earlier. That makes lots and lots of sense. If i wasn't so lazy i'd be trying to map out how long before you're at peak blood levels, given a rough estimate of half life, but i think the anecdotal '1.5-2 weeks in' will have to suffice. That actually suggests a pretty decent half life then, much more than 5 hours right? (for instance, 5 hour half life, seems it would take ..... wait a sec, i just started mapping out a 5 hour half life, and that would have you at full blood levels in a couple days. Anyone good with math here? I can't figure out how to make a formula for it, can only do long-hand. If someone's good at math, how long of a half life would you need to have a compound needing at least, say, 7 days to be at full strength in the blood?)

 

[BigMattTx]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

wow thanks, dunno why the hell that wasn't obvious when i was thinking of this earlier. That makes lots and lots of sense. If i wasn't so lazy i'd be trying to map out how long before you're at peak blood levels, given a rough estimate of half life, but i think the anecdotal '1.5-2 weeks in' will have to suffice. That actually suggests a pretty decent half life then, much more than 5 hours right? (for instance, 5 hour half life, seems it would take ..... wait a sec, i just started mapping out a 5 hour half life, and that would have you at full blood levels in a couple days. Anyone good with math here? I can't figure out how to make a formula for it, can only do long-hand. If someone's good at math, how long of a half life would you need to have a compound needing at least, say, 7 days to be at full strength in the blood?)

some things that are correct on paper don't pan out in real-life results. I normally feel the effects of an oral by day 1 but I do not feel the full effects until 7-10 days have elapsed.

 

[PumpingIron]

Thanks MH, I haven't had a chance to look anything up yet.

But that makes sense to me.

 

[aspire210]

Do some reading up on just what exactly the half-life of a compound means.

Half-life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The levels drop off at an exponential rate. So, lets say something has a 6-hour half-life. You take one cap and 6 hours later, half of it is still floating around. Then, 12 hours later 1/4 of it is still floating around but by that time you are taking another dose. The effect caries over for much longer than just its half-life which is why it takes time for levels to reach their peak.

Did you actually do the extended math on the half life of something with a 6 hour half life? Its basically non-existant in 48 hours. Everyone needs to forget about the half life idea and focus on what skye said. Its not really that the blood levels need to be peaked, as much as it just take time to build real muscle. I am attaching a spread sheet with formulas on it where you can put in the half life of something and the dosage, then watch what happens every 12 hours for 30 days. The blood levels tend to peak fairly quickly for these 4-12 half life orals. You tend to reach peak, or near peak within 3 days. If I made a mistake in the formulas let me know, but I don't see one right away. Lets please put the idea of "high blood concentration" being what it takes for orals to be effective. This is true for much longer acting compounds, but not for orals. It just takes the body sometime to start working with the chemicals.

Edit: there was a small error in the forumla that has been fixed.

 

[TeamSavage]

Did you actually do the extended math on the half life of something with a 6 hour half life? Its basically non-existant in 48 hours. Everyone needs to forget about the half life idea and focus on what skye said. Its not really that the blood levels need to be peaked, as much as it just take time to build real muscle. I am attaching a spread sheet with formulas on it where you can put in the half life of something and the dosage, then watch what happens every 12 hours for 30 days. The blood levels tend to peak fairly quickly for these 4-12 half life orals. You tend to reach peak, or near peak within 3 days. If I made a mistake in the formulas let me know, but I don't see one right away. Lets please put the idea of "high blood concentration" being what it takes for orals to be effective. This is true for much longer acting compounds, but not for orals. It just takes the body sometime to start working with the chemicals.

Agreed. For onset of action, half-life only matters when you're talking about a compound with a half-life of a few days or more.