The YOUNGER you are, THE HIGHER your dosage of Hormones should be!

[mmorpheuss]

Don't BAN ME!!!

I don't really think that, but supposedly some people do, especially with GH.

This is completely contrary to anything I've ever experienced, witnessed, or been taught.

If this is actually true and I am wrong, I need some of the more experienced cats to help me out.

Does being younger mean you need higher doses of GH, or test for that matter?

I feel like I'm losing my mind here.

 

[Beelzebub]

eh, within reason, i believe so. older males really notice significant changes when using as little as 250mg/test per week where as a younger fella may hardly notice it. the way that i worked it out in my head is it all comes down to what your baseline is. it's well known that younger adults have higher testosterone levels than older ones, so this is their baseline. 250mg's to an older guy may be well above his normal test level, but for a younger guy, it's not as drastic - due to each of them having a different starting point. same can be said with GH. i've read countless feedback from older males having great results at 2iu's ed, where as the younger generation is having mediocre gains at 4iu's ed. JMO on the matter.

 

[cromwell]

Don't BAN ME!!!

I don't really think that, but supposedly some people do, especially with GH.

This is completely contrary to anything I've ever experienced, witnessed, or been taught.

If this is actually true and I am wrong, I need some of the more experienced cats to help me out.

Does being younger mean you need higher doses of GH, or test for that matter?

I feel like I'm losing my mind here.

There anecdotal claims of that nature but physiologicaly they make little sense. You should be less inclined to use when you are younger because it will compromise some of your natural ability.There may be a few factors at work here however
1) There may be more or at least more Active receptors present than in an older individual
2) you may be able to cope with some of the sides better, this is dependent of what is causing them however
3)this is biologically a time of great growth to begin with

That being said this is a foolish idea. If you start out with high dosages where do you go from there? Even higher?
Finally high dosage GH has a plethora of nasty side effects particularly in those under 40 or so. Some of them are not transitory in nature either. A bad idea imo:hammer:
better to push the limits naturally then be efficient about what works. In the long run this is better-long run =consistency, less shutdown and managable cycling. Keep in mind that everyone is different in terms of reaction to said substances both positive and negative
all the above is purely hypothetical discussion, I am not condoning anything here
best of luck

 

[mmorpheuss]

That being said this is a foolish idea. If you start out with high dosages where do you go from there? Even higher?
Finally high dosage GH has a plethora of nasty side effects particularly in those under 40 or so. Some of them are not transitory in nature either. A bad idea imo:hammer:

That's what I'm saying. This seriously sounds crazy to me.
Assuming there is going to be even a short period before shutdown, it doesn't seem like the younger person would need as much.

After shutdown, aren't the two on even ground, with the only difference being the younger person may have higher levels of yet other hormones that were not affected?

I've really never heard this before. I see at least Beelz has though. This is weird.

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

 

[Beelzebub]

don't take me too far out of context though. some of the dosages i've read for the younger guys are ridiculous. i've come to believe that exceeding past 1G of combined substances per week is uncalled for, regardless of age. again, this is nothing more than my opinion on the matter. there may be some studies out there that totally contradict what i'm implying, but it makes sense to me.

 

[jomi822]

I would have to say i am not quite sure what to believe.

it has been said that pro-bodybuilders use up to 5 grams of combined test a week. that is simply an insane number and i do not have any idea how any more than 1/4 or 1/5 of that actually make it to the receptors. as for HGH there is an indivudal at my gym that uses hgh (i am not sure what dosage) and his arms are the greater majority of the distance down to his knees and his hands are absolutely huge. Why ANYONE would use more than 4 or 5 iu's of the stuff is beyond me.

 

[Beelzebub]

lol, a competitor at my gym is cruising with 7.5G's a week of test right now. that's right, i said cruising. he bumps to 15G's when it's 'go time'. he knows it's not smart but he's 34 now and the way he sees it, he's only got 2 or 3 more tries for a pro card so he's going all out. he's a monster to behold but if you have to take that much to be one, i'd rather be small.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Thats insane. But who's stronger, him or you?

 

[Beelzebub]

lol, me. but not by much. he's a bb'er though so it's not fair to compare.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Of course it is

I'd rub it in his 15 gram a week face every chance I got.

 

[Apowerz6]

15 grams !!! :WTF: that is outrageous !!! un called for, and i def cannot say that is not use but abuse... I am with you use but in that context it is not worth it...

 

[mercedesdd]

15 grams !! Geez thats just uncalled for IMO.. Would like to see the long term damage that could inflict!!! That like shooting 6 bottles a week of test.. Dam !!!( 6 -10 ml bottles.. if the test is 250 /mg).. Thats seems like overkill to me. Does he get bad sides when using that dose??

 

[jminis]

lol, me. but not by much. he's a bb'er though so it's not fair to compare.

Beelze that's is the most insane dosage I've ever heard. That man will not live long at that pace.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Beelze that's is the most insane dosage I've ever heard. That man will not live long at that pace.

Yea, be really nice to him and get yourself put into his will.:hammer:

 

[CHAPS]

Not even Coleman uses that much, i think the dosages you we all hear that are STUPID high are the guys who have mediocre genetics and think that they need to use boatloads of gear. I'd use 2g's of Test a week tops though, 3g's if it's a short 4-6 weeker. To be using those amounts a week he must have started out high, I mean these guys who use a 1g of test on their first cycles! I dunno if anyone has ever heard of that video by Tom Platz Professional Bodybuilding Secrets uncovered I believe. Well he interviews like 10 of the top guys and most of them have their faces blacked out except Lee Priest. Well a guy on another board wrote down coleman's stack from the 1998 olympia i believe and it just listed the drugs not the doses, but it said combined he runs 5grams a week of stuff and that he LOVES insulin as well as theramax i believe it was.

Also avoid using any cycle by Paul Borreson that guy's books must have killed thousands of bodybuilders. I mean 7g's of test a week along with 100iu's of slin! WTF?

 

[Beelzebub]

yeah, i thought he was bullsh!tting the first time he mentioned it. then we had a serious discussion about 2 weeks ago and he said he went through (3) 10ml bottles a week currently but has gone and will go to 6 after september. so, when you do the math - 15G's of just test. he's been using since he was 15........on a side note, his bloodwork checks out fine, go figure.

 

[Beelzebub]

Of course it is

I'd rub it in his 15 gram a week face every chance I got.

well...i do sometimes

 

[CHAPS]

since he was 15? what a retard. The guy has absolutely no base. He could grow fine off of like 2g's of test. Tell him to spend more of his money on food and supplements.

 

[Beelzebub]

far from a retard and probably one of the most intelligent guys i've met when it comes to diet and getting ready for a competition. he's fully aware of what may happen with his extreme dosages and he's taking that chance anyway. i don't agree with it at all but it's his life, his decision.

 

[cromwell]

don't take me too far out of context though. some of the dosages i've read for the younger guys are ridiculous. i've come to believe that exceeding past 1G of combined substances per week is uncalled for, regardless of age. again, this is nothing more than my opinion on the matter. there may be some studies out there that totally contradict what i'm implying, but it makes sense to me.

I basically agree, other than a very large individual. If there are pros out there using 5g + per week (and i am sure someone is) This tells me three things
1) genetically not gifted. You should not need this amount to succeed, but thats your choice. And while some things are'nt quite as bad as they are made out to be rest assured they are not vitamins either.Be smart
2)they are likely not using the correct ancillary drugs some of which make a huge difference and are less toxic
3)they are ****ing cluless in terms of training and nutrition. Yes, there are going to be exceptions but seriously:trout:
Using 15 grams a week is just plain stupid, no offense intended. It is not so much the health aspects so much as the fact that past a certain point more does NOT= more.
you know I am just a 40 year old 185ib shrimp. (at 6'1) with a small bone structure (7"wrists), ya know one of those guys that started out at a buck forty.My goals right now are to get back to 195 or so and lose about 3% more bdy fat. For me I could accelerate that but I don't belive its worth it, I will get there any way . Other people have different goal and abilitys. I would hope theya lso have several years of hard training an d correct nutrition before they consider this road. I have trained and trained with many and seen the "assistance " aspects of it. The people I have seen who were successful at any level were intelligent and methodical in their use. They also knew how to train, I wonder how many people now know how?
Best of luck, just make informed decisions:thumbsup:

 

[Beelzebub]

1) all pros are genetically gifted, regardless of how much they take.
2) not following you here
3) agree for the most part

15G's a week is 'stupid' to some but i try not to use that word so loosely. you ask the average U.S. citizen about our lifestyle and they would consider us the 'stupid' ones. ask them about any steroid usage and we're drug addicts no different than heroin users. again, it's all in what you want and how far you're willing to go. is it wise? definately not and i believe he's compensating for something that is lacking elsewhere, whether it be in diet or training.....hell, maybe even in his brain housing group. he will pay for it eventually, whether it be physically, mentally, etc. but again, it's his choice and walking in someone elses shoes ain't my cup of tea.

 

[CHAPS]

Well that's good to know that he's got his diet and training in line, but 15g's is just excessive. So you said 15g's of test alone? Does that mean he stacks more gear along with all this? And how much does he weigh?

 

[CHAPS]

I'll take back my earlier comment, he's not retarded but he is taking a senseless risk. He should just use Chad Nichols' or Author L. Rea's services. God can you imagine the sex drive off of 15g's of test! LOL

 

[Beelzebub]

he's 5'8" ish at 260lbs, maybe 8% at his highest. i'll give him that, he's always lean. he doesn't really like other gear, screws around with orals about twice a year and the rest of the time, just test.

here's a pic from his last contest, taken off flex. i think he was around 220lbs here.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Nice.

Should give people an idea of why he's taking the risk. Obviously he's worked his ass off already, and see's any risk worth it to fufill his dream.

 

[Beelzebub]

that's the way i see it too. he's made his choice and he's going all out for it.

 

[jrkarp]

he's 5'8" ish at 260lbs, maybe 8% at his highest. i'll give him that, he's always lean. he doesn't really like other gear, screws around with orals about twice a year and the rest of the time, just test.

here's a pic from his last contest, taken off flex. i think he was around 220lbs here.

Damn.

 

[Irish Cannon]

if he looks like that after using gear since 15 and is now in his mid 30s and often runs at 15g of test, im not even somewhat impressed. forgive me if the comment offends anyone. im not saying hes a small guy by any means, hes massive...but, with all things considered, it sickens me.

 

[mmorpheuss]

if he looks like that after using gear since 15 and is now in his mid 30s and often runs at 15g of test, im not even somewhat impressed. forgive me if the comment offends anyone. im not saying hes a small guy by any means, hes massive...but, with all things considered, it sickens me.

Ohhhkay, I'm getting the feeling you're the type of character that puts too high of a premium on chemical enhancement.

Physiques like that are build with dedication and discipline. Unwaivering adherance to training and diet for quite a long time.

Steroids may account for, what? 5% of what you see there?

He may be a little obsessed I'll grant people that, but this is coming from a self confessed obsessive, so I understand where his mind is at completely.
I think anyone thats been anywhere near where that cat is right now... at the very least knows where he's coming from.

 

[Beelzebub]

Ohhhkay, I'm getting the feeling you're the type of character that puts too high of a premium on chemical enhancement.

Physiques like that are build with dedication and discipline. Unwaivering adherance to training and diet for quite a long time.

Steroids may account for, what? 5% of what you see there?

He may be a little obsessed I'll grant people that, but this is coming from a self confessed obsessive, so I understand where his mind is at completely.
I think anyone thats been anywhere near where that cat is right now... at the very least knows where he's coming from.

word :goodpost:

 

[jrkarp]

if he looks like that after using gear since 15 and is now in his mid 30s and often runs at 15g of test, im not even somewhat impressed. forgive me if the comment offends anyone. im not saying hes a small guy by any means, hes massive...but, with all things considered, it sickens me.

15g is a ton of test to be sure, but the bottom line is that no matter how many chemicals you pump into a body, it takes hard work and (most importantly) damn good genetics to get to that point. Some people could never get to that physique, no matter how many grams of test they do per week.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Some people could never get to that physique, no matter how many grams of test they do per week.

You know, I was going to say that..

But I didn't want to SHATTER ANYONES DREAMS.

WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU???? :toofunny:

 

[Irish Cannon]

Ohhhkay, I'm getting the feeling you're the type of character that puts too high of a premium on chemical enhancement.

Physiques like that are build with dedication and discipline. Unwaivering adherance to training and diet for quite a long time.

Steroids may account for, what? 5% of what you see there?

He may be a little obsessed I'll grant people that, but this is coming from a self confessed obsessive, so I understand where his mind is at completely.
I think anyone thats been anywhere near where that cat is right now... at the very least knows where he's coming from.

thats not at all what i meant. i understand completely that your dedication to diet, training, and recovery are the keys to building size. im sorry if my post came across that i put so much emphasis on it, thats not the case. but think about it, if cuttler (who is around the same age) takes maybe 8 or 9g of combined products a week and this guy is taking 15g in test alone, i would expect him to look a little better than that (i guess you can throw genetics into the factor though); however, thats not even what im saying sickens me. the thought of someone being on that much gear to me is so beyond overkill. the fact that someone has the mentality of not caring if they croak in three years simply because they want to be barried in a big coffin. thats what sickens me. i enjoy seeing pro bb'ers; looking at how massive someone can become, but i do however think what they are doing to themselves is terrible. like many of you have said, to each his own. to me, that is not dedication or obsession, i see it as a disease. ive taken gear, and still plan on, but at what i feel are reasonable doses. guys like this and the pros (not to mention the attitudes that some of themselves carry with them) is the reason why i will never refer to myself as a bodybuilder.

and, just to add, when you are using that much substance to gain size, it plays much more than 5% in where you are. at a reasonable dose, 5% sounds about right. with pro bb'ers...more like 15%.

 

[mmorpheuss]

I understand where you are coming from, everyone draws their line in a different part of the sand though bro, your ideal and anyone elses is most likely not to match than to match perfectly.

I disagree on the 15% though. In comparison to the sacrifice involved to garner the excess gains on that level, I think 5% is a more than generous consideration to give to a bottle of test.

Juice doesn't do squat without all of the other things being in painstakingly proper working order.

 

[Beelzebub]

anyone know what cutler takes or what any pro takes for that matter? or are we just repeating what some board types out for us to read? i highly doubt anyone has an idea of what any pro takes, it's all speculation and i would guess we're estimating real low. and these percentages that are getting thrown out are getting rather ridiculous. gear counts for 5-15%? where the fvck is this coming from? point being that it doesn't count for much. i know a sh!tload of users that look like they don't even workout. and most of them are using way more than what we consider 'safe' on the boards.

 

[Beelzebub]

lol, just thought of this quote from the guy we're talking about "i've yet to see 10ml's of test squat anything."

 

[mmorpheuss]

anyone know what cutler takes or what any pro takes for that matter? or are we just repeating what some board types out for us to read? i highly doubt anyone has an idea of what any pro takes, it's all speculation and i would guess we're estimating real low. and these percentages that are getting thrown out are getting rather ridiculous. gear counts for 5-15%? where the fvck is this coming from? point being that it doesn't count for much. i know a sh!tload of users that look like they don't even workout. and most of them are using way more than what we consider 'safe' on the boards.

Exactly, there are too many of those guys walking around for the general populace to think that Muscles=Juice.

It trips me out when I hear people at work talking about "this baseball player must be on Steroids" and "That baseball player can't be on Steroids..just look at him, he's not big enough"

Total F'n crock that so many people think you have to be on drugs to meet any good fitness goals.

 

[CHAPS]

Agreed steroids are only a small amount of the equation. As for what pro's use that video i mentioned earlier apparently is legit so if anyone is interested pick that up, but most have their faces blacked out. From hearing Lee Priest speak and he really hase no reason to lie he sticks with Parabolan, Winny, Primo, Deca and possibly Eq. Apparently test have never done much for him at all.

 

[CHAPS]

Beezle ask your body how he feels on that much Test, i bet he feels like a friggin god, lol.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

anyone know what cutler takes or what any pro takes for that matter? or are we just repeating what some board types out for us to read?

I know they're not colemans or cutlers, but I know a few nat'l level bbers and their dosages. search "sourinthemind" he'll give you his doses. At the time I thought he was insane because the other guys I talked to weren't even taking that much, but 15g is just "wow". but, if his bloodwork is fine then I guess we can't trash him too much--he obviously cares enough to check.

I knowa guy who was running 5g/wk. He took some time off (his timeoff = 500mg/wk) and then jumped back up to a 1.5g dose and his gains were off the chart for him. Maybe that's all your buddy needs. At 15g he just seems scared to lose anything.

He's a biiig boy though, lol.

 

[Beelzebub]

yeah, i remember sourinthemind now that you mention him. sounds like he cycles his dosages from when i talked to him last (yesterday), he goes from 1.5G's - 3G's - 5G's - 7.5G's - 15G's, then pyramind back down, back up, etc. still ridiculous, lol. even the low end is something i haven't tried yet.

 

[Beowulf]

For what your buddy takes in 1 week, I could do 2 15 week cycles :jaw:

 

[Apowerz6]

thats not at all what i meant. i understand completely that your dedication to diet, training, and recovery are the keys to building size. im sorry if my post came across that i put so much emphasis on it, thats not the case. but think about it, if cuttler (who is around the same age) takes maybe 8 or 9g of combined products a week and this guy is taking 15g in test alone, i would expect him to look a little better than that (i guess you can throw genetics into the factor though); however, thats not even what im saying sickens me. the thought of someone being on that much gear to me is so beyond overkill. the fact that someone has the mentality of not caring if they croak in three years simply because they want to be barried in a big coffin. thats what sickens me. i enjoy seeing pro bb'ers; looking at how massive someone can become, but i do however think what they are doing to themselves is terrible. like many of you have said, to each his own. to me, that is not dedication or obsession, i see it as a disease. ive taken gear, and still plan on, but at what i feel are reasonable doses. guys like this and the pros (not to mention the attitudes that some of themselves carry with them) is the reason why i will never refer to myself as a bodybuilder.

and, just to add, when you are using that much substance to gain size, it plays much more than 5% in where you are. at a reasonable dose, 5% sounds about right. with pro bb'ers...more like 15%.

Beg a pardon guy??? I do not know your credintials as a lifter nor your stats,and I am by far a novice, but your comment is very condesending, and holy than thou... You juice to get big or cosmetically enhance yourself whatever, but this man although largely dosed and scary, knows what is working for him... And you are right, your attitude makes you no better than those pros you are taling about. And until you jump on stage and diet for 16 weeks and dry yourself out etc, you should have nothing negative to say about him IMHO... BB'ing is a lifestyle, and you are in it for the looks guy, so I would'nt even want you to join the brotherhood...

 

[CHAPS]

I'd read an article about a guy that would do 5g's of test at a time and it got to the point that he couldn't function normally because he'd get insane pumps from just walking, LOL. No to mention the sex drive.

 

[cromwell]

1) all pros are genetically gifted, regardless of how much they take.
2) not following you here
3) agree for the most part

15G's a week is 'stupid' to some but i try not to use that word so loosely. you ask the average U.S. citizen about our lifestyle and they would consider us the 'stupid' ones. ask them about any steroid usage and we're drug addicts no different than heroin users. again, it's all in what you want and how far you're willing to go. is it wise? definately not and i believe he's compensating for something that is lacking elsewhere, whether it be in diet or training.....hell, maybe even in his brain housing group. he will pay for it eventually, whether it be physically, mentally, etc. but again, it's his choice and walking in someone elses shoes ain't my cup of tea.

You have and excellent point and i agree. It is'nt stupid, but it is an unnessary risk in terms of payoff imho, but I am a far cry from a pro bb'der, still I have seen great results in atheletes and bb'drs wresters whathave you at far lower dosages.My point with genetics is geared towards the marginal, I should Have specified that I did not mean pros (although its interesting to see photos of some of them when they started out-eg Dorian Yates) I have always contented that some people respond far better to drugs than others. I wish your friend the best of luck, obviously he is a very good bb'der, and understands the risks.
By ancillarys I mean things that work well with anabolic steroids, and also things that ease or minalize shutdown. i dont mean to be coy but I think you do know some sf the things I refer to you are obviously knowledgeable. I don't want to be the guy that post name then some 18 year dummy goes and trys it. I see to much of that already, and some of these guys barely look better than me for gods sake. Your friend is different he is very good-elite, I just don't get guys that have NO shot doing that. That would be like me using heavily to be a powerlifter and try to beat your lifts-lol
but we all make our choices and take our risks

 

[Beelzebub]

ahh, those ancillaries. yes, he uses the ones that he deems necessary. he doesn't have gyno issues though and when asked about shutdown, his response was "i don't want any more kids so fvck it." i have no doubt that his gains would be incredible at a far lower dose but like i said before, he's viewing it as a 'i'm running out of time' situation and that's why his dosages are so ridiculously high. i'm more curious as to how he's going to look and feel when he's 60 something, if he makes it that long. bloodwork may show up all good and happy, but 15G's of test is still 15G's of test.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I would like to bring up again how much of this test is reaching the receptors. I don't see how it's possible for 15g a week to be used by your body. Wouldn't it act the same way as with creatine...once the cell is saturated, the rest is wasted? Or is that totally off? I know they are two totally different things but I don't see how your body can go from producing and using at the most 250-300mg of test a week to using 15grams.

 

[CHAPS]

I don't think genetics pay as big a part as they used to, now hang on before you start flaming. What i'm saying is that it's possible now for someone with average genetics to become quite big and freaky with excellent conditioning. Now i'm not saying they could make it to the Mr O but with the advances in diet, training and drugs i believe literally anyone could be a ripped 250lber. Chemical Muscle Enhancement was the first book to ever mention this and yes it's a bold statement but i really do believe it. Bodypart won't grow? Use some site enhancement oil (correctly mind you), to stretch out the fascial tissue and gain inches on a bodypart that wouldn't normally grow anymore. Got a fair amount of bodyfat to lose before your in contest shape? Use some DNP, you'll be burning fat literally sitting on your ass. Please don't mistake what i'm saying for the "well if I used all the drugs he did i'd look like Ronnie coleman too!". All i'm saying is that when you combine today's modern training, eating, supplementation and drug techniques your going to create a monster, period.



*I'm not promoting or condoning the use of any illegal and or dangerous substances that i have mentioned.*

 

[CHAPS]

And since we are talking about mega-doses does anyone remember a really old article on here about a guy saying he was going to try out a Dan Duchaine theory and triple his dosages? If i remember correctly he put on 35lbs in like 8 weeks. Dan's theory was that it wasn't enough to just double your doses to see double the results it had to be atleast triple, i believe it was in the 4g+ weekly dosage ranges. And he believed that at that point the steroids started to work through other unexplained pathways. No one that i know has proven this theory but it could explain why someone would make amazing gains off of 15g's of test.

 

[Beelzebub]

lol, i posted that.

take note that the guy who originally wrote that feedback died shortly afterwards. had to do some digging to find that out. supposedly not AAS related, but who can say that for sure. no autopsy.