TRT restart question

[atlien2488]

I haven’t posted in awhile and have been on TRT since last March. I am thinking about coming off to try a natural restart just to make sure It is my only options. TRT has helped with many symptoms however, it has inexplicably hurt my erections. (recent estradiol and prolactin have come back within normal range so I’m not sure what is causing it.). But long story short I’m wondering if it is even worth the bother of eating super healthy, meditating, healthy fats and a restart protocol or if my numbers just warrant me staying on.
I am 30, weigh about 220, 15 percent bodyfat, have been eating healthy for a long time , previous illicit drug use, mostly in college, no steroid cycle history before TRT. Below are my numbers of some tests I had before I started TRT. I realize that I should have had FSH and t3, t4, etc tested, but it didn’t happen.
My question is, do you think after 10 months, I could give myself a chance to restart my natural T? I’m fear that after a few years, it will be impossible to do and I’m worried about some of the health issues I’ve read including heart issues, fertility issues and raised cholesterol. Another issue is that sometimes I don’t have the same hardness of erection as I used to which is a huge problem. I know certain studies are inconclusive, but I would like to give the natural route one more chance possibly…Do you think with my test results, this is possible or are they so low that I should really just be on it? Thanks.
About:
160 mg test weekly, hcg 400 mcg twice a week (cycled every couple months to prevent possible desensitized leydig cells) and 6.25 mg of aromasin. Here are some of my tests done in the months following up to deciding to go on trt. Most were under 300 ng/dl. In general, the testosterone has helped me with confidence and energy but has hurt erection quality and I fear about being able to come off if health issues arise later in life. My doctor had said that my estradiol was so low, that it was unlikely that a clomid restart would work. I have many recent tests but the main numbers I’m posting are numbers I had prior to TRT.
Nov 7th 17: total t: 282 ng/dl
nov 16th 17: total T: 421 ng/dl (highest I’ve seen it)
feb 2018: total T: 379 ng/dl. Free t: 8.3 (9-27)
march 18, 2018:
Total T: 291 (264-916)
free T: 9 (9.3-26.5)
LH: 2.2 (1.7-8.6)
Prolactin: 5.1 (4-15.2)
estradiol: 6.4 (7.6-42) Low
SHBG: 32 (16.5-56)
TSH- .473 (.45-5.0)
CMP:
Glucose: 81 (65-99)
Urea Nitrogen: 12 (6-20)
Creatinine: 1.09 (.76-1.27)
EGFR (non black)- 92 (>59ml/min/1.73)
EGFR (black)- 106 (>59ml/min/1.73)
BUN/Creatinine Ratio- 11 (9-20)
Sodium- 141 (134-144)
Potassium 4.0 (3.5-5.2)
Chloride- 102 (96-106)
Total CO2- 25 (18-29 mmol/L)
Anion GAP 14 (10-18)
Calcium- 9.0 (8.7- 10.2)
Protein, TOTAL- 6.2 (6.0-8.5)
Albumin, S 4.3 (3.5-5.5)
Globulin 1.9 (1.5-4.5)
A/G 2.3 (1.2-2.2) High
Bilirubin 0.5 (0.0-1.2)
Alkptase 38 (39-117)
AST (GOT) 19 (0-40 IU/L)
ALT (GPT) 23 (0-44 IU/L)
CBC:
WBC:5.8 (3.4-10.8)
RBC: 4.77 (4.14-5.80)
HGB: 14.9 (12.6-17.7)
HCT: 42.3 (37.5-51%)
MCV: 89 (79-97)
MCH: 31.2 (26.6-33)
MCHC: 35.2 (31.5-35.7)
RDW: 13.4 (12.3-15.4)
Placelet CT: 216 (150-379)
MY Lipid profile is skewed because I accidently ate before this particular test. My doctor said my values were normal considering how soon after I took it
:
Cholesterol: 193 (100-199)
Triglyceride 164 (H) (0-149)
HDL Cholesterol:37 (L) (>39mg/dl)
VLDL: 33 (5-40)
LDL Cholesterol : 123 (H) (0-99)
CHOL/HDL Ratio 5.2 (H) (0.0-5.0 units)

 

[BBiceps]

I came off successfully after 3 yrs with Clomid and HCG. I was 7 yrs older than you when I came off. I been off now for 3 yrs and feel great, the only thing I miss is the “look” but otherwise than that it was mostly annoying to be on TRT, weekly shots and overly horny, saying that, I will go back on when I need it.

 

[atlien2488]

You were on TRT for 3 years and came off? Or you took it and 3 years later you feel normal? I'm wondering some of the details of how bad it felt when you stopped taking it or how long it took to be at your best...

 

[yaron369]

You were on TRT for 3 years and came off? Or you took it and 3 years later you feel normal? I'm wondering some of the details of how bad it felt when you stopped taking it or how long it took to be at your best...

You feel like death when you come off
Worst feeling in the world

 

[atlien2488]

damnn its really that bad? Even with clomid and HCG.....How long do you think it would take after a year of TRT. Pretty subjective but maybe someone has something similar goin on.

 

[yaron369]

damnn its really that bad? Even with clomid and HCG.....How long do you think it would take after a year of TRT. Pretty subjective but maybe someone has something similar goin on.

Prob 4-8 weeks of light clomid dose as long as your using HCG your good to go
Yeah you loose a lot of the benefits it gave you and you go back to super low t which sucks

 

[Steeleydan]

You mentioned "no previous steroid use before trt". Have you cycled or " blasted" since you have been on trt? If so, what were they and how long? I ask because if you have been using other compounds while on trt then those could be huge factors

 

[RickyBlobby]

I came off successfully after 3 yrs with Clomid and HCG. I was 7 yrs older than you when I came off. I been off now for 3 yrs and feel great, the only thing I miss is the “look” but otherwise than that it was mostly annoying to be on TRT, weekly shots and overly horny, saying that, I will go back on when I need it.

How did you utilize the clomid and HCG?

 

[atlien2488]

I did a lil blast of test and tried a sarm last year. Not much over a month. I don’t think it had an impact. Don’t get me wrong, mentally it’s made me feel better and more confident.....but there’s that voice in the back of my head wanting me to go the natty route one last time to see if I can get my t up to a good level. It might just put me in a world of pain and be a terrible idea lol I guess we’ll see if I do it.

 

[danielvp]

I was on TRT for 5 years and successfully came off using only HCG. You should definitely try a restart if you want to, I am a couple years younger than you, but only being on for 10 months, I like your chances of a successful restart.

As far as your low estradiol, couldn't you just lower or eliminate your aromasin dosage?(under your doctor's supervision ofcourse) Then your estradiol should be in a range where your doctor will prescribe you a pharma SERM to attempt your restart.

 

[yaron369]

If it’s helped you there’s no point of coming off you’ll just go back to normal

 

[atlien2488]

Yaron, kinda what I’m thinking.....I’m also wondering if any amount of healthy eating/supplementation could get me in a high normal range after being under 300 ng/dl

 

[yaron369]

Yaron, kinda what I’m thinking.....I’m also wondering if any amount of healthy eating/supplementation could get me in a high normal range after being under 300 ng/dl

Honestly it won’t
Pre trt my dr said I have something wrong with my diet and I need to start working out harder...
Dude I was eating sooooo healthy, and I worked out so hard but couldn’t see anything happening
Now on trt I eat healthy and ****ty but I’m still loosing weight. I’m also 3x my size pre trt but that’s Bc I also throw in like 10mg dbol and var preworkout. The slowest method is always the best imo
My point is, if you were feeling like **** pre trt then why go back

 

[BBiceps]

You feel like death when you come off
Worst feeling in the world

Not true

 

[BBiceps]

You were on TRT for 3 years and came off? Or you took it and 3 years later you feel normal? I'm wondering some of the details of how bad it felt when you stopped taking it or how long it took to be at your best...

I took for 3 years and came off, felt fine the whole time, lost a few pounds of muscle and a little strength but nothing crazy. Been off for 3 years now, have been feeling as good as I always do, I’m very confident and have always been.

The biggest difference is, I don’t have the “steroid look” anymore (bad thing) and I’m not overly horny anymore (good thing)

 

[BBiceps]

How did you utilize the clomid and HCG?

I think 50mg Clomid for the first week or 2, then 25mg for the remaining 6-8 weeks, HCG at 250mgx2 week for the first month.

Went from zero sperm to making babies during this.

 

[atlien2488]

Yea I want to just stay on but being on it for 50 years or however long I live seems like a long time.....I’d like to hear from others who have been on forever how their health has been? Most of those people I’m guessing also probably aren’t on the anabolic minds forum ��

 

[yaron369]

Not true

Depends how you felt pre trt

 

[BBiceps]

Yea I want to just stay on but being on it for 50 years or however long I live seems like a long time.....I’d like to hear from others who have been on forever how their health has been? Most of those people I’m guessing also probably aren’t on the anabolic minds forum ��

My dad (he’s a superhuman so it’s not like this for everyone) is 60 now and have been on trt for the last 30 yrs, he have no health issues and still one of the strongest guys around, for example he did 3 reps on 405 in floor press a few months ago and can rep out muscle ups like nothing. He is and have always been all about training and having a good diet, if you live a healthy lifestyle I’m sure you’ll be fine.

 

[atlien2488]

Damn if that’s true that’s really encouraging for me, thanks dude....I know that there is a lot of testosterone misinformation but I figured that some of them might be true in terms of cardiac issues. One thing I heard in a study is that it can lead to artery plaque In a % of people but a lot of the prostate cancer theory and heart attack risk are largely unfounded. I’d rather live happily then cloudy headed and depressed like I was, it’s just a big thing to know you’re pinning yourself for life and can’t really get off after a certain amount of time, that’s why I feel indecisive about it

 

[yaron369]

Damn if that’s true that’s really encouraging for me, thanks dude....I know that there is a lot of testosterone misinformation but I figured that some of them might be true in terms of cardiac issues. One thing I heard in a study is that it can lead to artery plaque In a % of people but a lot of the prostate cancer theory and heart attack risk are largely unfounded. I’d rather live happily then cloudy headed and depressed like I was, it’s just a big thing to know you’re pinning yourself for life and can’t really get off after a certain amount of time, that’s why I feel indecisive about it

IMO you will be overall healthier on TRT if you are eating right and working out, rather than living on low t

 

[LMuscle]

I'm going to try a restart next month, I'm just tired of how hit or miss trt has been for me. It truly has made a mess of my libido and erection ability/quality since I've been on it, and I've been on it for almost 10 years! A week before my final shot, I'll start hcg 500iu 2x a week for a couple weeks, then 50mg Clomid with 20mg tamox for a week, after that 25mg Clomid and 20mg tamox for a month or two. Then blood work to see where I'm at.

 

[LMuscle]

My dad (he’s a superhuman so it’s not like this for everyone) is 60 now and have been on trt for the last 30 yrs, he have no health issues and still one of the strongest guys around, for example he did 3 reps on 405 in floor press a few months ago and can rep out muscle ups like nothing. He is and have always been all about training and having a good diet, if you live a healthy lifestyle I’m sure you’ll be fine.

He's no superhuman if he's on trt lol Being 60+ and being able to throw around the weights is common if you're on trt. My dad's 71, never been on trt or anything, just hard manual labor all his life, naturally big boned, still strong as an ox, and has crushing grip strength. My best friend's dad is 68, and he can't even do a pushup lol Look at old farmers who have thrown 200lb hay bales around all day since their teenage years, THEY are super men.

 

[BBiceps]

He's no superhuman if he's on trt lol Being 60+ and being able to throw around the weights is common if you're on trt. My dad's 71, never been on trt or anything, just hard manual labor all his life, naturally big boned, still strong as an ox, and has crushing grip strength. My best friend's dad is 68, and he can't even do a pushup lol Look at old farmers who have thrown 200lb hay bales around all day since their teenage years, THEY are super men.

Well, I just gave an example you nerd. I’m pretty sure your farmers is no super men either, or maybe they are in your comic book world.

 

[Old Witch]

Why would you want to go from favorably high T to unfavorably low T? If you’re expecting that after almost a year of being on steroids that you’re somehow going to not only restart hpta but at a higher, more favorable rate, then you’re living in a fantasy.

 

[Old Witch]

If you’re going to manage to make your testes produce at a higher rate after coming off then obviously you never needed trt to start with.

 

[LMuscle]

Well, I just gave an example you nerd. I’m pretty sure your farmers is no super men either, or maybe they are in your comic book world.

I guarantee a farm boy that's never been to a gym in his life would destroy you, you have no idea tough guy

 

[Old Witch]

Well, my dad is 66 and he can still lift an engine block by hand. never been a farmer, not on trt. Vietnam veteran, AO exposed, Hepatitis A cured, lifelong drinker and smoker.

 

[Old Witch]

My dad can beat up your dad.

 

[LMuscle]

If you’re going to manage to make your testes produce at a higher rate after coming off then obviously you never needed trt to start with.

That's what I'm thinking, I was stronger naturally than I am on trt. Naturally I was 225lbs 8% bodyfat, and could strict curl 90lb dumbbells, and flat bench 170lb dumbells. Now I'm 240lbs 8% bodyfat, and strict curl 75lb dumbbells. I'm sure I could curl 90's again, but it's different, feels like my muscle might tear. I think exogenous testosterone makes muscle and tendons weaker and more prone to injury. The only reason I wanted to be put on testosterone was to have a crazy high sex drive like I've heard it does. (I think my test level was low at the time 422ng/dL because I was depressed from breaking up with a girl I shouldn't have broken up with, and I was drinking heavily for a couple weeks after the breakup, my test level was normally mid 700's) The test injections did just the opposite for me, lowered my sex drive even more. It would be high once in a while, like 1 week every three months, whereas before my sex drive was normal/high. My lab work was always pretty much flawless. I've given trt long enough, it's definitely done more harm than good. I'm ready to feel normal again.

 

[Old Witch]

That's what I'm thinking, I was stronger naturally than I am on trt. Naturally I was 225lbs 8% bodyfat, and could strict curl 90lb dumbbells, and flat bench 170lb dumbells. Now I'm 240lbs 8% bodyfat, and strict curl 75lb dumbbells. I'm sure I could curl 90's again, but it's different, feels like my muscle might tear. I think exogenous testosterone makes muscle and tendons weaker and more prone to injury. The only reason I wanted to be put on testosterone was to have a crazy high sex drive like I've heard it does. (I think my test level was low at the time 422ng/dL because I was depressed from breaking up with a girl I shouldn't have broken up with, and I was drinking heavily for a couple weeks after the breakup, my test level was normally mid 700's) The test injections did just the opposite for me, lowered my sex drive even more. It would be high once in a while, like 1 week every three months, whereas before my sex drive was normal/high. My lab work was always pretty much flawless. I've given trt long enough, it's definitely done more harm than good. I'm ready to feel normal again.

Sounds like you’re getting decreased performance from the increased nitrogen retention. The pump is killing your lifts.

 

[LMuscle]

Sounds like you’re getting decreased performance from the increased nitrogen retention. The pump is killing your lifts.

Actually I used to get a better pump before trt lol it's really had weird effects on me. I was way stronger on creatine monohydrate.

 

[Old Witch]

Actually I used to get a better pump before trt lol it's really had weird effects on me. I was way stronger on creatine monohydrate.

Well yeah... high creatine vs almost no creatine, pretty big difference. Why did you stop the creatine?.

 

[atlien2488]

Yeah I don’t get it. Almost everything including the gym, my mood and the way I feel are better on trt. I think my dick actually grew lol. The only problem is the quality of erections is not great. And that’s a huge problem. All my labs including, shbg, prolactin, e2, test, etc. are normal. So I don’t get it.....biggest double edged sword I’ve had to decide on.

 

[LMuscle]

Yeah I don’t get it. Almost everything including the gym, my mood and the way I feel are better on trt. I think my dick actually grew lol. The only problem is the quality of erections is not great. And that’s a huge problem. All my labs including, shbg, prolactin, e2, test, etc. are normal. So I don’t get it.....biggest double edged sword I’ve had to decide on.

Mine looks like I just got out of a cold pool after trt! Erections didn't shrink, but it sure does shrink when I'm not hard now. Never did that before trt. I called my doctor the day after I started trt and complained about it, he said that should never happen, and I was like well, it happened so...

 

[atlien2488]

If you’re not big when not hard it Shouldn’t matter right? Lol wish I was in your boat

 

[Renew1]

Mine looks like I just got out of a cold pool after trt! Erections didn't shrink, but it sure does shrink when I'm not hard now. Never did that before trt. I called my doctor the day after I started trt and complained about it, he said that should never happen, and I was like well, it happened so...

Sorry if you already answered this.... Any idea how your DHT levels are?

 

[atlien2488]

I don’t think I have. I haven’t had any dht related hair issues but maybe that is a factor? There’s just so many variables

 

[danielvp]

I feel stupid for asking this, but if everything is better on trt except for erection quality, have you tried cialis or viagra?

 

[atlien2488]

I tried some I got from a lab didn’t work that great....but yeah next step Is a doc script. I just wish I didn’t have to resort to that I’m only 30.

 

[danielvp]

Well hopefully you will get better results from a scrip, but I can appreciate you not wanting to head down that path this early.

 

[Renew1]

I had done a little reading recently (I think some of it was on this site) about some people adding DHT to their TRT, for better overall results. I'll try to remember where I was reading. ... If it rings a bell to anyone, please feel free to chime in.

 

[Renew1]

I had done a little reading recently (I think some of it was on this site) about some people adding DHT to their TRT, for better overall results. I'll try to remember where I was reading. ... If it rings a bell to anyone, please feel free to chime in.

Here's some....

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/306307-adding-dht-trt.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/264762-dht-gel-andractim.html

.... And there are more, but I was thinking of an article or post with a lot of info on this. According to the article, it really added a lot of pluses to some people's TRT.

 

[atlien2488]

Yeah, not losing my hair was one of the wins so far, adding dht seems slippery, but yeah I’m gonna get my levels checked and such.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah, not losing my hair was one of the wins so far, adding dht seems slippery, but yeah I’m gonna get my levels checked and such.

It's a trade-off for sure. It can give sides, but it also has physical benefits (including sexual), and is a feel-good hormone for many.

If you get it checked, I'd be interested in hearing the results either way.

 

[BBiceps]

I guarantee a farm boy that's never been to a gym in his life would destroy you, you have no idea tough guy

Lol, I bet you that he or you for that matter would not stand a chance, and yes, I am a tough guy, especially compared to a nerd like you.

 

[atlien2488]

That’s good to know. I’ll definitely keep you posted. Thanks for the info....it’s funny I’m on these other forums dedicated to trt and “health and longevity.” But people seem to know/care more about helping others on anabolic minds then other places

 

[Renew1]

That’s good to know. I’ll definitely keep you posted. Thanks for the info....it’s funny I’m on these other forums dedicated to trt and “health and longevity.” But people seem to know/care more about helping others on anabolic minds then other places

This is a great forum (overall lol).

 

[LMuscle]

Lol, I bet you that he or you for that matter would not stand a chance, and yes, I am a tough guy, especially compared to a nerd like you.

How much would you like to bet? Lmao I don't mean to brag, but I'm 6'6 240lbs 8% bodyfat, I've trained/fought in Muay Thai for almost 20 years, and trained BJJ for almost 5 years. Pretty confident I can more than handle a piss ant such as yourself. Move along kiddo....

 

[BBiceps]

How much would you like to bet? Lmao I don't mean to brag, but I'm 6'6 240lbs 8% bodyfat, I've trained/fought in Muay Thai for almost 20 years, and trained BJJ for almost 5 years. Pretty confident I can more than handle a piss ant such as yourself. Move along kiddo....

Lol, maybe you would survive for a few seconds then, your boxercise training will not be taken too seriously for someone that fought on the highest level, I used to be world ranked, you can’t win this nerd.