TRT and longevity

[Brain5ick]

What do you think the long term effects of TRT are? I think about this a lot because I’m only 24 and I hear people talk about having to go off after so long because of health issues. I’m always worried my health will decline in my 40’s/50’s and I’ll have to go off the T.

 

[Renew1]

What are your options? That's a legitimate question. If you believe you have no options but to be on TRT, then worry can only cause you harm.

But from what I've seen and read, it seems that having Test in the middle of the range is best for longevity (for men as a whole). There are health risks caused by low Test, and also high Test.

 

[Brain5ick]

What are your options? That's a legitimate question. If you believe you have no options but to be on TRT, then worry can only cause you harm.

But from what I've seen and read, it seems that having Test in the middle of the range is best for longevity (for men as a whole). There are health risks caused by low Test, and also high Test.

Well my first doctor wanted me on gels. **** that. They did nothing and were super expensive. My levels are at 900ng/dL right now on 200mg cyp per week. Before TRT I was at 172ng/dL and that was at 23. It sucks being that young and you can’t get it up. All the doctors I’ve seen are convinced my levels won’t come back and say I’m perfectly safe for long term aside from having to dump blood occasionally if needed.

 

[Old Witch]

As long as you’re managing your metabolic levels etc no reason you wouldn’t live quite a long time just like anyone else.

 

[Rockslide]

The biggest one at your age is infertility . As said above various disease states are triggered by sub and supra-physiologic levels. Test naturally tapes off with age and it would probably be wise for a 55 year old to reduce their dose to mimic the age adjusted normal test level compared to a 25 year old. Obviously keeping the dose reasonable enough to not influence lipids , hgb, etc is important too.

 

[yaron369]

I’m only 24 and I am on trt
What are your levels at right now?

 

[yaron369]

I’ve also done years of researching before touching trt... have you cycled before getting your levels checked? Have you tried a clomid restart? You gotta try these first before you jump in with trt since it’s not a joke
It’s a life long commitment

 

[Brain5ick]

I’ve also done years of researching before touching trt... have you cycled before getting your levels checked? Have you tried a clomid restart? You gotta try these first before you jump in with trt since it’s not a joke
It’s a life long commitment

My levels are 902ng/dL and my E is 28pg/dL. These are 4 days after 100mg shot of cyp and .5 arimidex, honestly I’d like to get my E lower because I’m prone to emotional sides due to the rise of E. Tried clomid, felt like hell and didn’t respond to it. Only did an Osta cycle before.

 

[yaron369]

Could have been the osta what was ur test levels pre trt?
Usually around 160mg per week will get you about 1200ngdl but everyone is different. What I learned from trt is you need to find what makes you feel better. To me 1200 I didn’t feel too good I felt better at around 600-700
Try adjusting your dose very slightly to see what you feel better on. Also PM me if you have any questions man your in the same position I’m in I’ve never heard of anyone my age having to be on trt

 

[Brain5ick]

Could have been the osta what was ur test levels pre trt?
Usually around 160mg per week will get you about 1200ngdl but everyone is different. What I learned from trt is you need to find what makes you feel better. To me 1200 I didn’t feel too good I felt better at around 600-700
Try adjusting your dose very slightly to see what you feel better on. Also PM me if you have any questions man your in the same position I’m in I’ve never heard of anyone my age having to be on trt

Yeah dude it’s crazy, I don’t run in to many people our age that need it. Pre TRT my T was 172ng/dL and my E was 7pg/dL so I felt like trash. I’m pretty sure what I got wasn’t Osta sadly. I gained 22lbs on it in a bulk and my liver was shot for about a month. I pct’d off of course and felt fine AFTER pct. During pct I felt weak and sad lol but after that I was fine. What’s your estradiol at?

 

[bigbeaph]

My levels are 902ng/dL and my E is 28pg/dL. These are 4 days after 100mg shot of cyp and .5 arimidex, honestly I’d like to get my E lower because I’m prone to emotional sides due to the rise of E. Tried clomid, felt like hell and didn’t respond to it. Only did an Osta cycle before.

You just started a new protocol in the last few weeks right? Looks like it's working out for you. MD has an ask the doc spot on YouTube. This kind of thinking is constantly addressed on the q&a....you should check it out. I think it might answer some things you've been asking around here lately - or at least get ya a good feeling one way or another.

 

[Brain5ick]

You just started a new protocol in the last few weeks right? Looks like it's working out for you. MD has an ask the doc spot on YouTube. This kind of thinking is constantly addressed on the q&a....you should check it out. I think it might answer some things you've been asking around here lately - or at least get ya a good feeling one way or another.

I think it’s Dr. Rand or something like that right? He’s on Jay Cutlers channel and another one I think. I’ve been binging on those videos lately haha. I listen to them during my 3 hour commute. Yeah it’s been working for me but I personally think my estradiol is a little too high, mainly because of a few side effects I’m getting not so much the number although 28pg/dL 4 days after a shot is in range it would probably be near 40-50 range closer towards the shots. Mood swings, less “sensitivity” sexually, no more morning wood until it’s the day before my second shot and the day of so I’m guessing my E is a little too high after my shots initially, I just need to figure out how much more adex to take through the week and when to implement that.

 

[Renew1]

Could have been the osta what was ur test levels pre trt?
Usually around 160mg per week will get you about 1200ngdl but everyone is different. What I learned from trt is you need to find what makes you feel better. To me 1200 I didn’t feel too good I felt better at around 600-700
Try adjusting your dose very slightly to see what you feel better on. Also PM me if you have any questions man your in the same position I’m in I’ve never heard of anyone my age having to be on trt

Most people definitely don't get about 1200 on 160mg per week.

.

If you do... Consider yourself extremely fortunate.

 

[Brain5ick]

Most people definitely don't get about 1200 on 160mg per week.

.

If you do... Consider yourself extremely fortunate.

I figure that may depend on when you take labs and if you shoot the whole 160mg at once or split it. 160mg all at once and doing the labs a day or two later I could see it but not on a trough day or anything. Honestly I want to see how high I can get my numbers without sides because 7 days after 100mg I’m only at 600-700 so I’m wondering where a 150mg twice a week split would make me feel.

 

[bigbeaph]

I think it’s Dr. Rand or something like that right? He’s on Jay Cutlers channel and another one I think. I’ve been binging on those videos lately haha. I listen to them during my 3 hour commute. Yeah it’s been working for me but I personally think my estradiol is a little too high, mainly because of a few side effects I’m getting not so much the number although 28pg/dL 4 days after a shot is in range it would probably be near 40-50 range closer towards the shots. Mood swings, less “sensitivity” sexually, no more morning wood until it’s the day before my second shot and the day of so I’m guessing my E is a little too high after my shots initially, I just need to figure out how much more adex to take through the week and when to implement that.

Dr Rand is good stuff too....and yea, I guess he was on MD a while back..lol. I was actually talking about the newer one with Dr. Thomas O'Connor. Spends a lot, maybe most, of his time speaking more to general health on trt and specifically, longevity. I think they started in early 2018, might be a bit off.

 

[Brain5ick]

Dr Rand is good stuff too....and yea, I guess he was on MD a while back..lol. I was actually talking about the newer one with Dr. Thomas O'Connor. Spends a lot, maybe most, of his time speaking more to general health on trt and specifically, longevity. I think they started in early 2018, might be a bit off.

I’ll check him out! What’re your personal opinions on this topic?

 

[Nac]

Ive seen grandparents endure pain and discomfort throughout retirement. So....

If its a case of either/or absolutes, Id honestly rather lose 5-10years off the backend of my lifespan but live enjoyably due to "trt", than die older but have lower life quality.

Reality isnt quite this neat, and things get further complicated (grey) if one blast-cruises, but I think that is the crux of it. There is no evidence TRT is definitely unhealthy, in the way smoking is, so long as you do all you can to reasonably offset any potential risks: get regular bloods, eat healthy, take some basic health supps, exercise.

Which are pretty much all things we should be doing anyway.

 

[Brain5ick]

Ive seen grandparents endure pain and discomfort throughout retirement. So....

If its a case of either/or absolutes, Id honestly rather lose 5-10years off the backend of my lifespan but live enjoyably due to "trt", than die older but have lower life quality.

Reality isnt quite this neat, and things get further complicated (grey) if one blast-cruises, but I think that is the crux of it. There is no evidence TRT is definitely unhealthy, in the way smoking is, so long as you do all you can to reasonably offset any potential risks: get regular bloods, eat healthy, take some basic health supps, exercise.

Which are pretty much all things we should be doing anyway.

I read a study recently that showed most risk came from short term TRT but when used long term the body is more able to adjust to the demand that high testosterone has which I’m guessing is kind of like a homeostatic thing. The body crashes or adapts depending on how you care for it.

 

[Nac]

I read a study recently that showed most risk came from short term TRT but when used long term the body is more able to adjust to the demand that high testosterone has which I’m guessing is kind of like a homeostatic thing. The body crashes or adapts depending on how you care for it.

If you have a good doctor, half your battle is won.

 

[yaron369]

Yeah dude it’s crazy, I don’t run in to many people our age that need it. Pre TRT my T was 172ng/dL and my E was 7pg/dL so I felt like trash. I’m pretty sure what I got wasn’t Osta sadly. I gained 22lbs on it in a bulk and my liver was shot for about a month. I pct’d off of course and felt fine AFTER pct. During pct I felt weak and sad lol but after that I was fine. What’s your estradiol at?

At 172 your probably feeling like complete trash
I had 255 and I felt pretty ****
Better now 10000x less anxiety but still there
But confidence is a ton more I can tell you that
How are you feeling?

 

[Brain5ick]

Brain5ick and others ... 172 @ 23 years old seems like there must be a process going on in the body to disrupt natural T production, right? I guess I am trying to understand the casues of Low T, especially in young guys. Do the medical comminity have ideas, in general, about why this is - or just theories?

The highest my T has ever been was 474ng/dL. I had a history of drug use, anti depressants, and testicular trauma throughout my life so this isn’t the biggest surprise to myself or others/doctors. Traumatic events from what I’ve read can cause hormone production to drop or cease in some cases as well.

 

[Brain5ick]

appreciate the info.

has the trt made a positive difference for you

Well for awhile I felt better but I think me E sides have been suppressing a lot of positive effects I normally experience. When you feel good, you feel really good. Good energy, muscle gain not so much if you’ve already built a foundation but muscle retention during a cut is noticeable. When I started TRT my girlfriend couldn’t keep me off of her lol I wanted to bang anything with a pulse! Haha. There’s good to it for sure. Bad part is when starting sometimes as you have seen from my posts things can get a little confusing and undesirable if you aren’t used messing with hormones that ARE NOT test and that’s a huge part.

 

[Brain5ick]

besides estrogen, what else are you / your doc trying to dial in so that you get that "feel good" feeling back and consistent?

That’s mainly it. I work with an HRT clinic in Pittsburgh that has been taking pretty good care of me but like any other clinic that does long distance care and mailing, some guess work and blood work is required. We are working on keeping me feeling good by lowering my estrogen by playing with different doses on AIs and frequency. So I’m starting .5mg adex three times a week but may do .25 eod later. Won’t really know until we see how I feel in general.

 

[yaron369]

same question to you, yaron. did your docs have any insight to what was disrupting your process?

also did you try a clomid "reboot"

Yes I’ve also tried everything
Clomid and nolvadex reboot
Got my levels from 260 to 340 but felt like **** on nolva

 

[yaron369]

That’s mainly it. I work with an HRT clinic in Pittsburgh that has been taking pretty good care of me but like any other clinic that does long distance care and mailing, some guess work and blood work is required. We are working on keeping me feeling good by lowering my estrogen by playing with different doses on AIs and frequency. So I’m starting .5mg adex three times a week but may do .25 eod later. Won’t really know until we see how I feel in general.

The lower the adex the better
Try .25 on injection days first then build it up
Do NOT try the other way around you will regret it

 

[yaron369]

I have read that before - does it jack up other values?

Yes your LH levels
Try it if your levels are low could help

 

[JoePaul39]

Subbed.