DIM as anti-estrogen?

[Jricefrank]

I’ve recently started a cycle of a pro hormone. It was recommended that I stack it with an estrogen blocker so as to decrease estrogen conversion and avoid side effects such as gyno. The salesperson at the supplement shop recommended I take DIM. Will this do the job?

 

[Georgiepecker]

As for blocking estrogen. No. It will however help balance it, and in my experience works VERY well to keep things in check! IE....I went from pre TRT 400 test 23 estrogen, to TRT 863 test and 22 estrogen! I take 250mg a day as I bought the biggest dosage I could find. It really does work for me, but no it will not block it really as an AI would. If you can get by using DIM, fantastic. Doubt it’s going to help you when your test reaches 5000 and begins converting to estrogen! Just my opinion though.

Give it a try? Yes.

 

[CatSnake]

I’ve recently started a cycle of a pro hormone. It was recommended that I stack it with an estrogen blocker so as to decrease estrogen conversion and avoid side effects such as gyno. The salesperson at the supplement shop recommended I take DIM. Will this do the job?

I believe that it's supposed to help with estrogen metabolism, but have never seen any data on how much it affects E2 in healthy men....

https://examine.com/supplements/diindolylmethane/

 

[Jricefrank]

Thank you for that insight! So do you advise I purchase an AI or do you think the DIM by itself should keep my levels normal?

 

[nubioso]

Always have an AI on hand.

 

[MrKleen73]

Before any of that can you tell us what the hormone you are running is. You may not have ANY reason to get an AI. All of this nonsense about get an ai for everyone and everything when so much stuff doesn't even require one and using one would actually lessen the gains off of the cycle.

So, what are you going to be running, let us see if you actually need an AI or not.

DIm effects how the E2 is metabolized and directs more of the metabolization toward the positive and healthier estrogen metabolite. So you get more of the positive effects of estrogen and less of the negative effects. IE... it optimizes your estrogen metabolization.

 

[Jricefrank]

Thank you for your response. I’ve been running 4-Andro the past month. And will finish with another one month cycle of 4-Andro stacked with 1-Andro. (Or maybe doubling up the dosage and making it a 2 week cycle)

 

[HAMinTheTrap]

never trust "the dude at the store"

 

[210LBS]

Before any of that can you tell us what the hormone you are running is. You may not have ANY reason to get an AI. All of this nonsense about get an ai for everyone and everything when so much stuff doesn't even require one and using one would actually lessen the gains off of the cycle.

So, what are you going to be running, let us see if you actually need an AI or not.

DIm effects how the E2 is metabolized and directs more of the metabolization toward the positive and healthier estrogen metabolite. So you get more of the positive effects of estrogen and less of the negative effects. IE... it optimizes your estrogen metabolization.

I don't understand the obsession with everyone running these hardcore AIs all the time on this board. If we're talking about some very wet high aromatizing compounds then OK, but it's becoming a bit too common I think.

I also don't understand why people are now running AIs in their PCT. Unless you need it, why would you run an AI in PCT? Aren't some of these pharma AIs actually suppressive and not suitable for PCT?

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Before any of that can you tell us what the hormone you are running is. You may not have ANY reason to get an AI. All of this nonsense about get an ai for everyone and everything when so much stuff doesn't even require one and using one would actually lessen the gains off of the cycle.

So, what are you going to be running, let us see if you actually need an AI or not.

DIm effects how the E2 is metabolized and directs more of the metabolization toward the positive and healthier estrogen metabolite. So you get more of the positive effects of estrogen and less of the negative effects. IE... it optimizes your estrogen metabolization.

I've been looking for something to keep estro in balance while on a 200mg / 1170 TT cruise. I knew any usable [ able to cut a pill] would crash my estro so I was dosing a few caps of Maca but this sounds like a more effective way of keeping it balanced because I don't have any real estro signs except it seems like I'm holding a bit of fat in the overall pec area, not gyno but prepubescent man boob lol.

 

[MrKleen73]

Thank you for your response. I’ve been running 4-Andro the past month. And will finish with another one month cycle of 4-Andro stacked with 1-Andro. (Or maybe doubling up the dosage and making it a 2 week cycle)

Okay, 1 Andro is not going to aromatize, and you would have to be running 4Andro pretty high to need to worry about it being an issue...

I don't understand the obsession with everyone running these hardcore AIs all the time on this board. If we're talking about some very wet high aromatizing compounds then OK, but it's becoming a bit too common I think.

I also don't understand why people are now running AIs in their PCT. Unless you need it, why would you run an AI in PCT? Aren't some of these pharma AIs actually suppressive and not suitable for PCT?

An AI can definitely help in a PCT, especially if it is an OTC PCT, like for something like the andro runs if not too high. Lowering estrogen tells the pituitary to create more testosterone which results in LH and an increase in test. Someone running a SERM though, they really shouldn't need one, but they can be beneficial for stopping an estro rebound if someone was just running nolva or something for estro management on cycle. There are very specific uses, and people here about them and while applying the kitchen sink protocols add everything in.

I mean the supplement companies sold them on needing it and got everyone on the board to say they are needed for a reason. So they can make money... Selling fear of side effects, or lost gains will motivate a lot of people and the longer and more it is repeated the more it is accepted as fact that an AI should be in every cycle.

I've been looking for something to keep estro in balance while on a 200mg / 1170 TT cruise. I knew any usable [ able to cut a pill] would crash my estro so I was dosing a few caps of Maca but this sounds like a more effective way of keeping it balanced because I don't have any real estro signs except it seems like I'm holding a bit of fat in the overall pec area, not gyno but prepubescent man boob lol.

Meh... I think the fat under the pecs is more of a genetic thing. I have had that all of my life. Now it could be a genetic predisposition to high estrogen or estrogen sensitivity but I have it and all of the females in my family have huge breasts. I think it is just a propensity to store fat in that area... I would think DIM would probably make you feel healthier and with no other estro sides I wouldn't worry about managing it with an AI. You may not need it at all. A lot of people don't need an AI even running 500mg of Test a week.

 

[Masterzen]

Every1 is different, and why some may get no estro sides from grams of gear other get estro sides from 5mg ostarine.

It doesnt really hurt to have a AI on hand, just in case.
Better safe then sorry !

 

[210LBS]

An AI can definitely help in a PCT, especially if it is an OTC PCT, like for something like the andro runs if not too high. Lowering estrogen tells the pituitary to create more testosterone which results in LH and an increase in test. Someone running a SERM though, they really shouldn't need one, but they can be beneficial for stopping an estro rebound if someone was just running nolva or something for estro management on cycle. There are very specific uses, and people here about them and while applying the kitchen sink protocols add everything in.

I mean the supplement companies sold them on needing it and got everyone on the board to say they are needed for a reason. So they can make money... Selling fear of side effects, or lost gains will motivate a lot of people and the longer and more it is repeated the more it is accepted as fact that an AI should be in every cycle

Yeah if it's OTC then I completely understand. I'm talking more along the lines of stuff like exemestane or letro. A SERM should serve much better for PCT than an AI, but yeah, I guess if you're worried about an estro rebound then it makes sense to run it in PCT as well.

I actually picked up a couple bottles of formestane, which some people say is great on cycle for milder estro risk cycles, and others say is better suited for PCT. Any thoughts on it? I prefer to only use a pharma AI if I notice any estrogen sides or if it comes in high on the hormone panel.

 

[MrKleen73]

Every1 is different, and why some may get no estro sides from grams of gear other get estro sides from 5mg ostarine.

It doesnt really hurt to have a AI on hand, just in case.
Better safe then sorry !

Ostarine does not aromatize at all... E2 can creep up on longer cycles due to lower levels of SHGB once the person shuts down but anyone saying they got estro sides from 5mg has some serious issues, or is a placebo minded mofo... Congrats to them, they should run some Natty mass gainers they really believe in...

See what I mean... if repeated long enough and by enough people it will become a necessity in peoples minds to have on hand... better safe than sorry gets a lot of unneeded AI's purchased...

I have seen it way too many times.

"Hey guys, I am about to run this Epistane cycle, what kind of AI should I get?" then everybody and their uncle chimes in with their favorite brand. Nobody even paying attention to the fact that Epistane is a steroid that is basically an anti-estrogen and competes with estrogen for the estrogen receptors and has a higher affinity to them than estrogen does.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah if it's OTC then I completely understand. I'm talking more along the lines of stuff like exemestane or letro. A SERM should serve much better for PCT than an AI, but yeah, I guess if you're worried about an estro rebound then it makes sense to run it in PCT as well.

I actually picked up a couple bottles of formestane, which some people say is great on cycle for milder estro risk cycles, and others say is better suited for PCT. Any thoughts on it? I prefer to only use a pharma AI if I notice any estrogen sides or if it comes in high on the hormone panel.

I am using it now with my current lower aromatization run. I am on 300mg of test e and 600mg of Eq a week. I use 50mg a day right now and have zero estrogen sides. I am not a huge fan of it in PCT unless just as spot control for rebound. It converts into an androgen so depending on dose I wouldn't think it would be extremely conducive to recovery. However it takes a pretty high concentration to get much of a concentration of the androgen so I think it would be fine in the 100mg and under range but probably not any higher.

 

[210LBS]

I am using it now with my current lower aromatization run. I am on 300mg of test e and 600mg of Eq a week. I use 50mg a day right now and have zero estrogen sides. I am not a huge fan of it in PCT unless just as spot control for rebound. It converts into an androgen so depending on dose I wouldn't think it would be extremely conducive to recovery. However it takes a pretty high concentration to get much of a concentration of the androgen so I think it would be fine in the 100mg and under range but probably not any higher.

I think my pills are 60mgs each. So 1 tab per day could suffice and 2 should be plenty then. Thanks

 

[MrKleen73]

I think my pills are 60mgs each. So 1 tab per day could suffice and 2 should be plenty then. Thanks

Oh... wait they are oral, the bioavailability of formestane orally is much lower. I don't remember exactly how much though but it was significant. You should check into that first. I am using a transdermal solution myself.

 

[210LBS]

Oh... wait they are oral, the bioavailability of formestane orally is much lower. I don't remember exactly how much though but it was significant. You should check into that first. I am using a transdermal solution myself.

Yeah I looked for the transdermal and I saw Brawn Nutrition had some but it was discontinued. Unfortunately I had to go with the oral (Estro Strike). I've heard the TD had better bioavailability but I took what was in front of me. I'll look into it.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah I looked for the transdermal and I saw Brawn Nutrition had some but it was discontinued. Unfortunately I had to go with the oral (Estro Strike). I've heard the TD had better bioavailability but I took what was in front of me. I'll look into it.

It seems like I remember something like 50% as effective per mg when dosed orally. So probably 2 caps a day for the same results.

 

[210LBS]

It seems like I remember something like 50% as effective per mg when dosed orally. So probably 2 caps a day for the same results.

Oh ok.. that's not too bad at all if that's the case. If I can I may even pick up some more bottles as I'm finding it harder and harder to come across formestane.

 

[Godstrength]

Oh ok.. that's not too bad at all if that's the case. If I can I may even pick up some more bottles as I'm finding it harder and harder to come across formestane.

If you find a place for this please pm me

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

If you find a place for this please pm me

Same with me

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Okay, 1 Andro is not going to aromatize, and you would have to be running 4Andro pretty high to need to worry about it being an issue...

An AI can definitely help in a PCT, especially if it is an OTC PCT, like for something like the andro runs if not too high. Lowering estrogen tells the pituitary to create more testosterone which results in LH and an increase in test. Someone running a SERM though, they really shouldn't need one, but they can be beneficial for stopping an estro rebound if someone was just running nolva or something for estro management on cycle. There are very specific uses, and people here about them and while applying the kitchen sink protocols add everything in.

I mean the supplement companies sold them on needing it and got everyone on the board to say they are needed for a reason. So they can make money... Selling fear of side effects, or lost gains will motivate a lot of people and the longer and more it is repeated the more it is accepted as fact that an AI should be in every cycle.



Meh... I think the fat under the pecs is more of a genetic thing. I have had that all of my life. Now it could be a genetic predisposition to high estrogen or estrogen sensitivity but I have it and all of the females in my family have huge breasts. I think it is just a propensity to store fat in that area... I would think DIM would probably make you feel healthier and with no other estro sides I wouldn't worry about managing it with an AI. You may not need it at all. A lot of people don't need an AI even running 500mg of Test a week.

EDIT when you say under the pec are you referring to the lower portion of the pec not underneath the muscle right? . It is bad enough that if I miss WO for 5 days it starts to make the whole pec look saggy. I believe that I'm probably have a high sensitivity to estro. I will have faint estro sides while on cycle like water retention, bit moody, low sex drive. when this happens I start taking or updose my AI and then 2 weeks later I have crashed my estro. Last cycle this happened when I was running Adex then I took a break on AI then switched to some underdosed Asin that came in a pharmy box... but PCT BW showed high estro. What would you suggest to limit this. My biggest issue is that I don't have a sex drive, everything still works, but I only want sex if the girl is kissing and grinding on me then I get down.

 

[BlockBuilder]

I have bioresponse DIM 150 can be dosed at 300 mg. Very good company and product

 

[MrKleen73]

EDIT when you say under the pec are you referring to the lower portion of the pec not underneath the muscle right? . It is bad enough that if I miss WO for 5 days it starts to make the whole pec look saggy. I believe that I'm probably have a high sensitivity to estro. I will have faint estro sides while on cycle like water retention, bit moody, low sex drive. when this happens I start taking or updose my AI and then 2 weeks later I have crashed my estro. Last cycle this happened when I was running Adex then I took a break on AI then switched to some underdosed Asin that came in a pharmy box... but PCT BW showed high estro. What would you suggest to limit this. My biggest issue is that I don't have a sex drive, everything still works, but I only want sex if the girl is kissing and grinding on me then I get down.

Not under the muscle just fat below my pecs, aka sags unless I am very lean then it finally tucks up under. I would try DIM first before using an AI to see how that works out for you. You also may find that for you for some reason you might need to run Nolva instead of an AI so that you are not crashing E2.

Also what type of cycle are you referring too. If you mentioned before, my apologies we have had a weekend away from the board since then. What you are running can have a big effect on your libido and other issues.