[neurotic3]

The fact that almost nobody has used oral testosterone stems from its low oral bioavailability; however, taking into account that test is cheap, one might wonder whether it's worth taking test base orally.
Many people has been taking 4AD orally, which is even less effective, for only ~15% converts to test. If you were to take 1gram/day orally it should, if doses are spread evenly throughout the day, be quite similar to injecting 350mg/week.
People have been taking 1-3grams oral 4AD daily with no liver toxicity issues, haven't they? In the same way, given the fact that test isn't a 17AA either, could you take 1 gram daily without worrying about liver toxicity?
My main concern stems from this article ( http://www.endotext.org/male/male2/male2.htm ), from which I quote:

"Oral testosterone

Micronized oral testosterone has low oral bioavailability requiring high daily doses (200-400 mg) to maintain physiological testosterone levels (69). This heavy androgen load causes `prominent hepatic enzyme induction although testosterone itself is not hepatotoxic (225). Although effective in small studies, micronized oral testosterone is little used as it is not commercially available. "

By the way, given its 5% oral bioavailability I think that 400mg would give you roughly four times your physiological levels... I don't understand why the have arrived at the conclusion that you need so much in order to maintain physiological levels...

I'd mainly like to know what you think about the liver toxicity issue.

Thanks.

[Rostam]

I assume the liver toxicity of testosterone and 4AD must be the same (if there is any). But why bother taking it orally? Why would you have 5% bioavailability when you can have 30% bioavailability transdermally?

[neurotic3]

Why would you have 5% bioavailability when you can have 30% bioavailability transdermally?

Because I might be stacking it with transdermal 1-test and my skin just cannot take it all! Besides it's much more comffy taking your oral dosage than spreading that itchy transdermal lotion all over your arms and chest! I guess it's the same with 4AD, people could take it transdermally but chose to take it orally because they were generally stacking it with other transdermal prohormones, or even using 4AD transdermally... they just chose to take it orally also so that they could increase androgen levels without increasing skin irritation.

[kwantam]

Three words, dudes: pin that ****.



-kwantam

[milwood]

I had a bottle of 1T ether powder from kilosports way, way back in the day (well, say 3 years ago maybe). I liked it, and I didn't use astronomical dosages. Did that stuff really work (orally) fairly well, or was I a placebo victim?

[ryanbodybuilder]

buy some cheap ug lab test prop and inject 100mg EOD or even 125 or 150mg EOD and there ya go..

[neurotic3]

I'm afraid the point of this thread is not in discussing whether injecting is better or worse, that would be the topic of another entirely different discussion. What I really want to know is to what degree might be hepatoxic taking those 1000mg/day of test base orally.

[ryanbodybuilder]

sorry about that......it will be hepatoxic regardless....i would think 800mg would be plenty orally though

[neurotic3]

sorry about that......it will be hepatoxic regardless....i would think 800mg would be plenty orally though

More hepatoxic than 4AD? Remember that many people took 1-3gr of 4AD orally daily and no one showed concerns for liver toxicity!

[ryanbodybuilder]

i dont agree with that statement.......i used 1500mg of 4ad orally and always used milk thistle, NAC, rala, and liv.52.......how can you say noone used precautionary measures?

[neurotic3]

I didn't say "precautionary measures" I said "concern"! You can take those measures but don't show concerns as you'd show using high doses of 17AA!

[Fastflight]

I think th elivertoxicty of oral testbase is overrated.It´s even concluded for DHEA,which also is exaggerated in my opinion.

Lozgod had described a sublingual method,which would be the best alternative to me along with test base.

I´ve actually been using a homemade trans-d of test-base and EOH sub-l. and it works.

next step would be cyclo-test,which i´m going to make myself with some other base-powders.

[neurotic3]

Be careful with transdermal testosterone... skin is rich in 5AR (the enzyme which converts T to DHT) and therefore, in passing thru the skin, a part of that testosterone is converting to DHT, which results in a higher than normal DHT conversion or, which is the same, you are using a type of test which is more androgenic than 'normal' test and which is going to give you more hairloss and prostate problems.

[ryanbodybuilder]

i would still have the same concern with that high of a dose as i would with 30mg of dbol

[neurotic3]

i would still have the same concern with that high of a dose as i would with 30mg of dbol

Then I guess all those people who used to take 1-3 grams of 4AD daily should have the same concern as they would have with 30-90mg of Dbol, shouldn't they? I don't recall anyone saying that this 4AD dosages would be comparable to a 17AA steroid.