Osta Suppresive Effect - How long to go back to normal
- 05-14-2016, 08:53 AM
Osta Suppresive Effect - How long to go back to normal
I started reading things about osta and its recomp effect. So my idea was to take this **** with some fat burning supp to lose fat and gain muscle, + cardio deficit diet + special workouts.
The thing is that this suppressive effect honestly scares the **** out of me. When I ordered the Osta, the website offered me a free botttles of Testoshred, I guess because of the suppressive effect.
My question is, after a 4 weeks cycle at 25mg, can I hope to get my testosterone level back up by itself ? Or do I really have to take other products after ?
(PS : I perfectly know i'm a newbie, don't start insulting and **** please...)
Thanks very very much guys
- 05-14-2016, 09:18 AM
SARMs - What are they?
Selective androgen receptor modulators or SARMs are a novel class of androgen receptor ligands. They are intended to have the same kind of effects as androgenic drugs like anabolic steroids but be much more selective in their action,allowing them to be used for many more clinical indications than the relatively limited legitimate uses that anabolic steroids are currently approved for.
ELI5: These are drugs that are designed to have the same effects of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids but with less side effects. They work by up-regulating or boosting the action of the Androgen Receptors by attaching to it and stimulating it.
Should I be taking them?
If you have been training seriously for 2-3 years and have a good grasp of proper training and nutrition, and want a boost without making the jump to injecting Testosterone and AAS then SARMs are an option.
If you have much less than 2 years experience in the gym you need food and training, not drugs. Performance Enhancing Drugs are not shortcuts to amazing magazine bodies, if you don't have enough time training you likely won't be able to get full potential out of PEDs to begin with. So no you probably shouldn't be taking SARMs in the Authors opinion.
TLR; Low side effects. Good for maintaining muscle mass. Suppressive at longer cycles and higher doses. Good for healing tendons. No aromatisation so low gyno risk.
Low: 3mg (Study dose)
High: 50mg (Diminishing returns thereafter)
Developed by GTx and Merck. A less potent SARM that was used for treatment of muscle wasting diseases.
This SARM is less potent than LGD. Similar profile otherwise with side effects well tolerated.
Has been shown to help increase the rate of collagen synthesis and builds tendons while also increasing bone density.
Common side effects: Acne, Headaches, Low Testosterone sides as suppression starts.
PCT - Do you need it?
SARMs suppress your FSH/LH and Testosterone, that is a fact. The reasoning here behind no PCT is the fact that it suppresses them and doesn't cause a shutdown. Therefore your body can (normally) naturally recover fine as your FSH/LH typically still remain within the normal acceptable range.
As you up your dose you will cause more suppression. If you are doing 10mg doses for 12 weeks you will more than likely put your FSH and LH to levels below normal, so PCT would be recommended. Studies on the 1mg doses showed after 30 days the subjects FSH and LH levels recovered. But these were at 1mg doses, we all take closer to 5mg so we can expect more Testosterone and HPTA suppression than those studies.
A general rule of thumb similar to steroid cycles is applicable. If you do not PCT, you should take time off equal to your time on. i.e. at the end of a 8 week cycle for 5mg you should then spend 8 weeks with no drugs in your system to let your body recover back to baseline.
If you are doing longer cycles (12 weeks+ of higher doses i.e. 10mg LGD). PCT would be advised unless you don't mind a longer recovery.
DAA is not PCT. It does not do anything to stimulate restarting your HPTA into producing more testosterone. It has been shown to cause a short term spike in LH but this is not enough for what we regard as PCT.
DAA is useful for infertile men as it has a more apparent effect. Adding it in to the end of your SARM cycle cannot hurt though and it may make you feel a bit less suppressed.
Natural PCT Supplements and Other Test Boosters available online
If you are going to PCT then you must use a real compound that can stimulate your HPTA, such as a SERM. If you can get a hold of SARMs you can get a hold of Nolvadex/Clomid... Over the counter PCT such as 'HCGenerate' are close to useless and more expensive than actual PCT drugs.
Liquid Clomid/Torem/Nolva are fine (from reputable sellers of course).
Avoid shill websites such as evolutionary.org as they have one agenda in mind, and that is to sell their stock. They will never say anything bad about any SARM or supplement they sell
Precautions Before Cycling
While most studies suggest SARMs have low sides and do not aromatise into etrogen, there have been cases of Gyno from these compounds. This could be either from hormone imbalances causing E2 levels to rise or receiving something spiked with a prohormone. Generally the risk is very low and you don't need to worry unless you have had gyno before or are very sensitive to it.
You should always have a SERM and AI on hand before starting a cycle. You may unknowingly receive a prohormone.
Early signs of Gyno are typically itchy or burning sensitive nipples. This is when you should start taking an low dose AI.
If your nipples are swelling, painful, lactating, are really puffy or you feel lumps under the nipple you are developing Gyno and you need to start taking a SERM.
Puffy nipples alone does not indicate Gyno. Puffy nipples can be caused by fat and water. Do not scare yourself into thinking you are getting Gyno just because your nipples aren't hard one day.
If you do not have an AI or SERM on hand and are starting to feel Gyno symptoms, you should stop taking any drugs.
Stacking SARMs (actual SARMs, not MK, GW etc..) is unnecessary at this point. They all seem to have similar MOA's and similar side effects but with different strength so the only thing you're doing by stacking them is risking even more suppression. Although you may stack them if you wish, but it may be wiser just to take a higher dose of the stronger SARM
05-14-2016, 09:29 AM
I do not have a lot of experience on the sarms yet, but I am 7 weeks under on my LGD cycle and tbh, I would not take the suppression of ostarine for 4 weeks of gains / fat loss / recomp effects. Definitely if you are going to get supressed, do it properly, which means run the compound at least 8 weeks and do a proper PCT.
Only guessing but, at least on LGD 4 weeks I would say quite safely that you would bounce back without proper SERM, but this is totally 110% individual dependant opinion, so only a guess that one can/will/could bounce easily from osta as well.
But like I have stated, there are a lot of good combos of recomp/fat burning stacks without the supressive sides which you could run and get gr8 results. But if you seriously wanna jump on the ostarine band wagon, like I said, I would do it properly and take all the benefits and run it AT LEAST 8 weeks + proper PCT SERM, which means Clomid/Nolvadex which are pharmaceutical drugs, not OTC PCT Products.
I know you stated it yourself that you are "newbie" as I am myself as well. But a newbie still can and SHOULD read about what he is going to do and learn from them. I can tell from your post that you have not done your research. So go do your homework first, and think twice what you're doing.
05-14-2016, 09:30 AM
Tons of info above. Read up on that, check out some osta logs on here in the supplement logs section and I believe theres acouple info threads on here to.
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05-14-2016, 09:32 AM
05-14-2016, 10:35 AM
Thanks a lot for all your answers
If I may, what do think about when you say, Hemavol, that "here are a lot of good combos of recomp/fat burning stacks without the supressive sides which you could run and get gr8 results"
I was also thinking about a yohimbin + fat burner stack...
Thanks a lot guys, i'm going to read what Socalmk6gti post
05-14-2016, 11:26 AM
Anabeta Elite by PES
Arimistane (OG Erase Pro example)
OL Products like Strength
11-Andro (11-Ketotestosterone not to be mixed with 11-oxo)
And these are just examples of good lean bulk / recomp products for beginner to start from.. and no fear of suppression after getting off. If your goal is just to lose fat, there are a lot of good fat burning products as well.
Example of recomp stack:
Alphamax Elite, 11-andro, Anabeta Elite
Also some background information would be nice.. how long have you trained? How many times a week? How old are you? What is your height/weight?
If you allrdy have bought the osta, there is nothing wrong going that route, I am just saying that you should read about these things more.. So things wont come as a surprise and you will go into a (Scare mode) and in worst case scenario you quit the cycle in the middle. Have you bought any test base products? It is recommended with sarms to use one, example dermacrine/andro products. Sarms are not supplmenets, they are drugs and should be taken seriously and also they are research drugs, so there is very little of actual research behind them for human consumption.
05-14-2016, 12:21 PM
I have trained for 3 years but not always really seriously. I used to wait 120kg pure fat, 4 years ago, now i'm 85 with good muscles and still some fat (belly mostly). I am 24 years old also for 1.80
Honestly I know it's stupid but I wanted to rush things a bit because i'm sick of that fat belly...
I have also bought Yohimbine, Lean Xtrem and Dexaprine. I think maybe I should start with stacking these products, because honestly I think I rushed things a bit by buying this Ostalean product and now i'm stressed a bit by the consequences
Thanks for your input guys, a lot !!
05-14-2016, 12:51 PM
05-14-2016, 01:01 PM
05-14-2016, 07:55 PM
smith_69 recommended sticking to the plan, as it was my first cycle. Anyway, I did bloods before starting PCT, to see if I required a SERM or if I could do OTC and my T came back as being below the normal range, in the clinical deficiency range. You can see the values in my log: First Osta cycle
The initial dose of 25mg was because the Osta I bought came in 25mg capsules. I have since picked up some OL Osta, which is 5mg capsules, so I now have more flexibility in what I can do. Most likely my next Osta cycles will likely be 20mg for 8 weeks and/or 15mg for 12 weeks. If you look at my log you will see a post by @sanmarino that details these as cycles he has run successfully. But basically it will be a lower dose over a longer period.
05-17-2016, 07:33 AM
Hey guys !
So I have received the product and before that i also read stuff about the gyno effect of Ostarine...
So now I'm thinking of taking the pills like this : 12.5mg / day during 6 weeks.
Do you think with this dosage I can avoid the side effects (low testo and Gyno) but with still some of the benefits ?
Thanks again guys
05-17-2016, 07:42 AM
05-17-2016, 07:45 AM
Thanks for your quick reply mate.
I just hoped I could try this product for a few weeks then go back natural without issues or complications :/
05-17-2016, 08:57 AM
I am going to lay this out for you to think about it. To be honest, what you are planning or thinking does not make any sense to me..
If we are considering a cycle of osta or what ever drug that is not a supplement... first we have to know what is the goal. Probably it is gaining muscle, recompping, losing fat or a combination of those. Once we know the goal, we have to have a plan, so we can reach the goals. Same thing applies in many areas in our lives. At the moment, you do not have a plan, or your plan is half-assed plan. If we think about using steroids / drugs / hormones or what ever, you cannot / should not even consider a half-assed plan because it is a waste of time, it is bad for your health and you will not succeed.
So taking all these facts in consideration, you have to have a successful plan for a successful cycle. And following issues has to dealt with if you want to succeed:
- Time -> If you really want to get results, you need time. 4 weeks, is a REALLY short time to get successful results, what ever your goal is. So forget your 4-week or what ever plans, it is waste of your time to even think about it. To be honest, I would say 8 weeks is a total minimum and tbh I would have enough of the desired product on hand to even continue from there. What if the cycle really treats you well and you are not getting any sides, why would you quit on the exact 8 week mark, if you could do 10? Once you are under a drug that is affecting your body also IN a NEGATIVE way, I would at least personally take all the positive effects I can out from it. So again I am saying, forget those 4 week plans....
- You need a proper test base -> If you want to have a successful cycle, I really recommend you to have a proper test base. If you cannot use something like Trest (which I am not definitely recommending to you since you lack the knowledge) I would at least have some andro products stacked with the osta. It will help you to battle the possible lethargy. OF COURSE you can do a cycle without a test base, but there is always a possibility to get really bad lethargy sides, which you may not be able to handle. This is your first SARM cycle (I assume) so, you do not know how the Osta will affect you.. You cannot ask people from here (how it affected your testosterone).. you are a individual...
- You need a proper cycle support -> This is not a must, but this is suggested to have. And no I am not talking about liver support since I guess that is not needed... I am talking more or less about your lipid support / blood pressure support. I would at least grab couple bottles of some hawthorne berry extract for the bloodpressure support.
- You need a PCT (SERM) -> Yes, you need a PCT. You are playing around with your hormones here... do you want to be impotent or feel like **** all the time after your cycle? Do you want to keep any of those gains you just made in the past weeks/months? I thought so.... SO you need a real PCT and commonly they are either Nolvadex or Clomid or both combined and those are again.. DRUGS. Supplement companies are selling products with the word PCT in them, but they are not a proper PCT products. These kind of products definitely can be added to your PCT stack, but as a standalone, they will not properly bounce you back. (Search youtube -> PCT Explained).
And of course you need to train hard and eat correctly. There is no reason to do a cycle without doing it properly and following proper guidelines... it is a waste of time and can be really harmful for you if you do not do it properly.
I do not want to be an ass here... but there are so many young guns who buy these products with zero knowledge and think they can use it 4 weeks like they would use D-aspartic acid and get free massive gains and keep them all without proper guide lines..
Open your google, open your youtube and do yourself a favor and learn...
05-17-2016, 09:07 AM
You made me realize that this stuff is not for me... yet
Honestly its hard being a newbie in this area... You have to understand that I spent a lot of times reading things on the internet. But for every guy telling me to be careful with this stuff, there is 2 other guys saying that this **** is safe, no side effects at low dose etc.
So I won't test my luck and just don't use this product
Thank you very very much, I won't up this post anymore
05-17-2016, 09:46 AM
I do not wanna be a party poopper here, I am just trying to help you out. You do not need to dump the whole cycle idea, but you can post pone it and start planning it properly and get all the positive things out of it
If you are planning to do a cut before summer, I would recommend you to pick up example andro11 and lean extreme and do them for 6 weeks.. no pct needed, no cycle support needed and you can get awesome results with them if you have a proper diet and workout plan on hand.
05-17-2016, 04:04 PM
Hemavol wrote, this stuff is safe if you are careful and you educate yourself first. It has nothing to do with luck.
It's like driving. Is it dangerous? Well, if you have no idea how to drive, yes. If you educate yourself and get a license, no, but you still have to be careful.
Can there be bad effects? Yes, but you could also walk out of your house and get hit by a truck. Or take a Tylenol and get intestinal bleeding.
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