DHEA use in women- is this true? products?

[nikegurl]

I've been doing a lot of research on ph use in women. (I'm currently using M4OHN) Of course when you read on various forums you see postings by well informed people and people who don't have a clue...

Here's something I extracted from a thread at bb.com. The poster was quoting Dave Plumbo (not sure who he is)

"I have noticed that women have more side effects from porhormones than they do from synthetic anabolic steriods like Anavar, Winstrol and Primobolan. In my opinion, the best muscle building hormone like supplement for women to take is DHEA. Released from the adrenal glands, DHEA is the main anabolic hormone in a woman's body. At a doseage of 25-50mg DHEA per day, a woman can expect to experience significant changes in body fat levels, immune system function and lean muscle gains."

What do you all think? Would DHEA be helpful in increasing lean body mass and reducing fat levels in a woman in any significant way? If so- what form of DHEA would be best? 7-OXO? Something else? Does it need to be cycled or can it be taken continuously. The reviews I've read on DHEA don't show people to be very impressed. I've heard there is an issue of bioavailability. Is there any reason to believe this supplement would be more beneficial to women than to the men who have taken it?

Any suggestions on specific products?

 

[Brodus]

Most of the people commenting on DHEA have been men, and have been disappointed b/c it converts to test at a very,very low rate, while increasing estrogen. I have read nothing specific to women, though. I wonder where the guy who gave the quote you referenced is getting his information...or if he just works for a company that sells DHEA!

As far as thermogenisis goes, 7-OXO is great, works very well.

 

[nikegurl]

yep - i wonder the same thing (where he got that info and what his motivation is) i've not found anything else anywhere to support it and i haven't found any feedback from women agreeing with him based on their experience with the supplement. i'm skeptical...but curious. thanks Brodus!

 

[prld2gr8ns]

I have never heard of anybody raving about a dhea only cycle. (men or women) It might possibley be benificial to older adults at 60+ years of age. The couple of studies I "glanced" over state positive results with this age bracket, but at that age any increase in testosterone would be positve.

 

[Brodus]

Yeah, a lot of us use 7-OXO DHEA for PCT, or as part of a cutting cycle. It's definitely a good addition--you can get 7-CORT for around $20. Don't use an oral version, as very little will make it through the stomach/liver. It's cheap and it works.

 

[nikegurl]

when you say it works...what would you expect it would do if used outside of pct? mainly aid fat loss? any impact on lean muscle gains? as a fat loss aid is it one of those "mildly effective" prodcuts or does it really make a noticeable impact? is it something you'd cycle on/off?

i appreciate all the help.

 

[Brodus]

7-OXO is the same thing as 7-KETO DHEA, and is the active ingredient in FL7 and Ab-Solved by Avant Labs. There are quite a few threads about it. This one is great, has research, etc.:
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11002&highlight=7-keto

Here's a good article by David Tolson @ 1fast:
http://www.1fast400.com/?articleID=92


Basically, to quote BOBO, these are the benefits:

"1. Decrease in cortisol levels.

2. Increased thyroid output that helps with extra calories post cycle.

3. Nutrient partitioner."

From the above thread:

Conclusions: The results of the study suggest that 7-oxo-DHEA combined with moderate exercise and a reduced-calorie diet significantly reduces body weight and body fat compared with exercise and a reduced calorie diet alone. In addition, 7-oxo-DHEA significantly elevated T3 levels but did not affect TSH or T4 levels, indicating that it does not adversely affect thyroid function in the short term.

Abstract posted with permission of the publisher from Kalman, et al, Current Therapeutic Research Vol. 61(7), and pp 435-442, Copyright 2000 by Excerpta Medica, Inc."

Most people say the effects are more noticable with higher body fat.


Also, did you ever try MDien? I really liked it.

 

[nikegurl]

thanks. m4ohn is the only one i've tried. have you used it? i'm asking in hopes you can compare the two.

 

[Brodus]

Yep, I've used M4OHN up to 32mg. ED. I used it after my Mdien cycle (@8mg. ED). I noticed more positive body comp. change from the MDien, but also more sides, especially in terms of emotional changes and natural test. supression. By contrast, the M4OHN made me feel great and actually made me recover from my Mdien cycle (I base this on my testicles swelling back to normal size, emotional balance, and return of confidence...blood test be damned, those are good parameters for me, and I do PCT afterwards anyways!)

The emotional effects on Mdien were so strong that I actually was going to start 4AD or something, even though it's not recommended w/ Mdien, b/c I felt like I had absolutely 0 testosterone in my body.

I plan on running M4OHN in the future. I have become a fan of the milder but effective PHs-->I think rapid change always has a price, somewhere. Your body is a contained biological system, its basic science.

 

[Brodus]

That's all for now--gotta get back to work! It's hard not to get busted in cubicle land when you're avatar looks as ridiculous as mine!

 

[prld2gr8ns]

...blood test be damned, those are good parameters for me, and I do PCT afterwards anyways!)QUOTE]
:nono:...... :lol:

 

[Brodus]

Well, I know it's heretcial, but it's true...I run my PCT correctly and take time off everytime following a cycle. I dose my ancillaries properly year round.

A blood test for liver panel would be a worthwhile endeavor, but adding the cost of a testosterone assay would be superfluous...we all know the androgens are going to shut us down, and that PCT is necessary. Since PCT is mandatory for me, I'm younger, and I don't run long-ass cycles of anything, I don't run the high risk of "permanent shutdown" For me to pay for a testosterone test after running PCT and taking time off would be like paying someone to check my oil right after an oil change.

I've yet to read a thread by someone who decided to postpone his 1AD cycle because four weeks after PCT he spent $50 for a testosterone test and determined he was 30% off baseline and needed to wait.

In the anabolics forum, where the chances of heavy shutdown are much worse considering cycle length, dosing, and products involved, people consistently say "it shut me down HARD," or " I recovered quickly," and they almost ALWAYS are using ball size as an indicator.

I'm all for blood tests to check Chol./liver/glucose, etc...but the extra cost for a testosterone test seems pointless to me if all systems are go and you did your PCT correctly. You know it will shut you down, you know you need to take time to recover...why blow another $100 per cycle?

The theory about not being able to "feel" your test levels is flawed, I believe. Can a person discern between 400 and 500? Highly doubtful. But there is a HUGE difference between 3 (after a few days on M1T) and 800 - 1000. When you wake up with an erection everyday, have to clean the pipes 4x daily, feel like blowing up over little things, acne has created a topographical map on your back, and your nuts are like avocados, yes, you have high test levels...no need for a DR to tell you that.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Agreed, just joshing you Brodus, but damn your a mad man on the keyboard.

Back on topic now. This guy quoting that women have more side effects from PHs then they do doses of Winny leads me to believe he's not to bright. Winny=Highly Androgenic=not good for ladies.

 

[Brodus]

Yeah, homeboy is trying to bat home runs with a whiffle bat.

I find it funny when people just pull dosages completely out of their a$$-->like all of the crap in the mags about MDien dosages...2mg ED putting 20lbs on an experienced lifter...what a lie.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

I find it funny when people just pull dosages completely out of their a$$-->like all of the crap in the mags about MDien dosages...2mg ED putting 20lbs on an experienced lifter...what a lie.

Welcome to product advertising, the seeds of sin......and horse ****.

 

[SJA]

I bought some DHEA (not 7-keto) for my G/F to use for raising her libido. She misread the label and was taking about 12 times what she should have (I'm going from memory but I believe that 50mg is a high dose for women and she was at 600mg). After 5 days, I noticed a LOT of strength improvement (and libido....and temper). I got suspicious and checked the bottle which was emptying very quickly. When I asked her how much she was taking, she told me and I freaked out. So she dropped the dosage and all the effects diminished.

So, I know for a fact that at very high doses, it works....but I would be careful of virilization.