Patrick Arnold's lab and home raided

[badbart]

Federal agents raid Illinois lab linked to BALCO steroid
Chemist suspected of creating drug called 'the clear'

Mark Fainaru-Wada, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, September 30, 2005


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Federal agents Thursday raided an Illinois laboratory where the steroid that ignited the BALCO scandal is suspected to have been created -- signaling that the three-year investigation is continuing.

In raids led by the Internal Revenue Service-Criminal Investigation division, search warrants were served on the Champaign, Ill., offices and home of chemist Patrick Arnold, who authorities believe produced the steroid that came to be known as "the clear" in the BALCO case.

A spokeswoman for IRS-CI's Chicago office confirmed the agency was on "official business" in Champaign but offered no further details. Lt. Ed Ogle of the Champaign County sheriff's office said his agency had assisted authorities on a raid at Proviant Technologies, Arnold's lab in downstate Illinois. And two sources with knowledge of the raids confirmed to The Chronicle that warrants had been served both on the lab and on Arnold's home.

Both IRS-CI and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration -- the two agencies primarily involved in the raids on BALCO two years ago in Burlingame -- participated in the Illinois actions, according to Kerry Hannigan, a special agent with IRS-CI in Chicago. Hannigan said all documents related to the "official business" were sealed.

Arnold's name has been connected to the BALCO case for some time. During the September 2003 raids on BALCO, owner Victor Conte and vice president James Valente both identified Arnold as the source of the once-undetectable steroid called "the clear," according to government memorandums detailing the interviews. Conte, Valente, track coach Remi Korchemny and Greg Anderson, personal trainer for Barry Bonds, recently pleaded guilty to steroid distribution charges and are awaiting sentencing next month.

Despite the plea agreements, a San Francisco federal grand jury has continued to hear testimony stemming from the BALCO probe, according to two sources familiar with Arnold and the case. In addition, just as they had in the months preceding raids on BALCO, federal agents had been digging through Arnold's trash seeking evidence, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation.

Neither Arnold nor his attorney responded to messages seeking comment.

Even before BALCO broke, Arnold was suspected by anti-doping officials as the man who resurrected the steroid norbolethone, a drug that was manufactured in the 1960s but never marketed to the public. The substance was discovered in the urine sample of an athlete in 2002. Based on e-mails and documents seized in the BALCO case, authorities believe norbolethone was the first generation of "the clear" distributed by Conte to elite athletes.

By the time of the BALCO raids in 2003, "the clear" was a newly designed steroid called tetrahydrogestrinone, or THG.

The various versions of "the clear" were administered by placing a couple of drops under the tongue. A 2001 e-mail from Arnold to Conte appeared to indicate the chemist was sending the BALCO chief the latest version of the substance.

"What I am sending you today is a small sample, about 5 ccs, of the supplement," Arnold wrote to Conte on Feb. 9, 2001. Arnold wrote that he had "made" very little of the substance, but there "should be enough for experimental testing. 2.5-7.5 milligram (whatever that comes out to in cc's or drops), under the tongue should be a decent dosing range."

Within the supplement industry, Arnold is known as the "father of prohormones," most famous for bringing androstenedione to the American market.

Andro, though banned by the National Football League and the Olympics because it was a steroid precursor, was popularized in 1998 when St. Louis Cardinal slugger Mark McGwire acknowledged using it during the season when he broke baseball's single-season home run record. Three years later, Bonds broke McGwire's record, and two years after that the Giants slugger became part of the evolving BALCO scandal.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/09/30/MNGHSF0D211.DTL

 

[fletch_k4]

Man, this is horrible. I hope everything works out for him.

 

[badbart]

Was THG illegal? I thought it was like M1T or SD something that wasn't scheduled at the time.

 

[natedogg]

**** happens. You break the law and you are bound to get caught.

 

[lifted]

Even though I totally despise PA, I'd like to know what exactly they are going after him for? THG was never on the AAS control act then...NOW it is, but again back then it wasn't....so what did he do wrong?

This is the whole reason why the NEW aas act has new laws where you cannot be within so many feet of a pro-stadium, etc. distributing AAS, etc...what a joke.

This whole ordeal, or what the idiots in congress call it the *scandal* is totally baseless with the facts that have been brought forth...

Oh and did anybody else hear that congress wants all four main pro sports to be tested and if the user is caught for just one offense, he's banned for 2 years....a second offense, he's banned for life...the gov't is getting involved where they do not belong...private biz is not the gov't's business.....

 

[Apowerz6]

STOP SNITCHIN

True indeed, do the crime do the time. What I hate is snitching !!! If you administer you are just as guilty as the maker, so why does everbody have to go down?

 

[lifted]

True indeed, do the crime do the time. What I hate is snitching !!! If you administer you are just as guilty as the maker, so why does everbody have to go down?

Yes, but the whole point is that there was no crime committed.

 

[badbart]

Even though I totally despise PA, I'd like to know what exactly they are going after him for? THG was never on the AAS control act then...NOW it is, but again back then it wasn't....so what did he do wrong?

This is the whole reason why the NEW aas act has new laws where you cannot be within so many feet of a pro-stadium, etc. distributing AAS, etc...what a joke.

This whole ordeal, or what the idiots in congress call it the *scandal* is totally baseless with the facts that have been brought forth...

Oh and did anybody else hear that congress wants all four main pro sports to be tested and if the user is caught for just one offense, he's banned for 2 years....a second offense, he's banned for life...the gov't is getting involved where they do not belong...private biz is not the gov't's business.....

It said IRS, I think the Government doesn't like him so they are trying to get him every way possible. I still don't understand the crime.

 

[badbart]

True indeed, do the crime do the time. What I hate is snitching !!! If you administer you are just as guilty as the maker, so why does everbody have to go down?

But was THG illegal? Maybe the IRS thinks he didn't pay taxes on his earnings from Blaco.

 

[CyberMuscle]

But was THG illegal? Maybe the IRS thinks he didn't pay taxes on his earnings from Blaco.

THG wasnt illegal when the so called scandal surfaced, but it is now scheduled. I still dont see how he can be charged for making a designer steroid unless he was still making and distributing it after it was scheduled.

 

[Apowerz6]

Yes, but the whole point is that there was no crime committed.

True indeed, But Victor Cunt did not have to say where he got the creams from.

 

[rhinochaser48]

Yes, but the whole point is that there was no crime committed.

They have watched him closely ever since the first andro supplement, which he sold first. Whether it worked well or not, it is an anabolic steriod.

They want to pin him for designing drugs made to bypass drug testing for professional athletes. And that, they will..... He knew this day would come. He's been involved with the Balco case the whole time. It was just a matter of time before they really dug deep.

 

[badbart]

True indeed, But Victor Cunt did not have to say where he got the creams from.

IRS taxes! Probably didn't pay taxes on his earnings from the sales of THG, under the table profit. When the government doesn't like you they will find a way to get you.

 

[badbart]

They have watched him closely ever since the first andro supplement, which he sold first. Whether it worked well or not, it is an anabolic steriod.

They want to pin him for designing drugs made to bypass drug testing for professional athletes. And that, they will..... He knew this day would come. He's been involved with the Balco case the whole time. It was just a matter of time before they really dug deep.

Probally correct, I didn't know designing drugs made to bypass drug testingknow was illegal.

 

[lifted]

They have watched him closely ever since the first andro supplement, which he sold first. Whether it worked well or not, it is an anabolic steriod.

They want to pin him for designing drugs made to bypass drug testing for professional athletes. And that, they will..... He knew this day would come. He's been involved with the Balco case the whole time. It was just a matter of time before they really dug deep.

Yeah, that would be my guess...some kind of conspiracy charge.

 

[Apowerz6]

IRS tax evasion- thats how they got Al Capone, since they had nothing on him that would stick...

I just hate that Bitch ass Bush and congress are going after **** that does not matter to the safety of America. And i had the chance to meet PA at the jr nationals here in Chicago, he is def a douche bag quite full of himself. It was funny he had an entourage around him. BUT STILL No reason he should go down for helping people have the edge...

 

[size]

This was lead by the IRS so it is a tax issue first.

 

[CDB]

So the basics are: a guy who probably didn't commit a crime is getting harrassed and probably prosecuted, and will end up paying huge fines and maybe even getting jail time. Since there was most likely no crime committed, the government is basically doing this because they have an aesthetic objection to his existence. In other words because they don't like him. And what allows them to do this is the complete idiocy of the majority of the public in allowing their reps to pass hundreds of thousands of laws, or more to the point allowing unelected, unaccountable agencies make regulations that have the status of laws, and then using those laws/regs to target people they just don't like. Arnold's business and life are likely to be destroyed.

And I remember one poster recently stating he pitied me because I was living in fear of the government. Bottom line is any one of us who similarly displeases the government, either in the form of a 'scandal' with wide coverage like this one or if a local DA, cop or other enforcement official takes a disliking to us or wants to build up his career, we're just as if not more fucked. And we've hurt no one, stolen nothing, damaged no property. We've just engaged in behaviors or used substances people just don't like. And for that your life can very easily end up ruined.

If you can't do the time then don't do the crime is pure nonsense when we're talking about situations where there's an absolute lack of a crime or someone getting prosecuted for something that should not be a crime.

 

[bioman]

Exactly CD. The bottom line is that BALCO, Conte and PA fucked with SPORTS. The government has a vested financial and aestetic interest in SPORTS. You **** with SPORTS, they end your life.

 

[joecski]

So the basics are: a guy who probably didn't commit a crime is getting harrassed and probably prosecuted, and will end up paying huge fines and maybe even getting jail time. Since there was most likely no crime committed, the government is basically doing this because they have an aesthetic objection to his existence. In other words because they don't like him. And what allows them to do this is the complete idiocy of the majority of the public in allowing their reps to pass hundreds of thousands of laws, or more to the point allowing unelected, unaccountable agencies make regulations that have the status of laws, and then using those laws/regs to target people they just don't like. Arnold's business and life are likely to be destroyed.

And I remember one poster recently stating he pitied me because I was living in fear of the government. Bottom line is any one of us who similarly displeases the government, either in the form of a 'scandal' with wide coverage like this one or if a local DA, cop or other enforcement official takes a disliking to us or wants to build up his career, we're just as if not more fucked. And we've hurt no one, stolen nothing, damaged no property. We've just engaged in behaviors or used substances people just don't like. And for that your life can very easily end up ruined.

If you can't do the time then don't do the crime is pure nonsense when we're talking about situations where there's an absolute lack of a crime or someone getting prosecuted for something that should not be a crime.

:goodpost: Awesome post would have been more appropriate. Earlier in the thread, lifted said

the gov't is getting involved where they do not belong...private biz is not the gov't's business.....

Everything is the government's business. There is nothing you do that does not have a touch of government control. Think about it, I was sitting here typing on my computer and watching TV. Now, I am taxed on my DSL line that runs the taxed computer I am using. If the government decided I shouldn't have DSL or a computer, how would they control this? They would raise the taxes so high I couldn't afford those items. Would this ever happen? Ask the tobacco industry. Also, everything I see on TV is directly controlled (censored) by the government (FCC). Why do you think TV sucks so bad?

Anyway, PA is an 'enemy of the state' because he is a ringleader in the 'war on steroids' (I'm amazed someone in congress didn't start using this already). He's probably being lumped in with other anti-american types, after all, PA is destroying our youth with his vile drugs. He must be taken down to preserve our way of life.

I'm not a PA fan, as others have already stated he is a big enough fan of himself that there is not room on the bandwagon for anyone else. Still, this is another example of the way our government operates - we are in the middle of the hurrican tragedies, we are fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and our cities are under the constant threat of terrorism. Hey, let's go after PA as priority #1 and have months of steroids hearing in Congress. This is a media circus and totally absurd.

 

[KD1]

I doubt he gets any jail, but this will cost him bigtime $$$.

I wonder if we will ever see "Cell Juice" now.

 

[ss01]

GREAT post, CDB.

But, the way you are wording things, it gives the reader the idea that democracy and freedom aren't ruling the day.

When the liberty of expression is the only thing left, is it still freedom?

 

[lifted]

Everything is the government's business. There is nothing you do that does not have a touch of government control.

Yes, I know what you mean, I was just saying that I don't think that it's moral or any of their business to get involved with a private biz like this....

 

[natedogg]

Even if it wasn't a controlled substance at the time, he still supplied it to athletes who's organization did not allow for this type of supplementation. And how is this a media circus? If not for this forum I probably would have never heard about this. I don't know about you, but I watch the news every day and I have heard nothing but hurricane this and Iraq that.

 

[Cuffs]

From what I see is this. They government is running out their resources to tie up loose ends from the BALCO scandal/investigation. Especially with all the steroid talks with MLB. They want to keep things in the headlines to show people they are taking a tough stand and are not backing away, or letting it just die down. For the most part, they were probably looking for computer records and such. The IRS was more than likely brought in so they could do a financial study on the monies and records, and maybe run into something foolishly left behind to possibly drum up another indictment.

 

[BigVrunga]

And I remember one poster recently stating he pitied me because I was living in fear of the government. Bottom line is any one of us who similarly displeases the government, either in the form of a 'scandal' with wide coverage like this one or if a local DA, cop or other enforcement official takes a disliking to us or wants to build up his career, we're just as if not more fucked. And we've hurt no one, stolen nothing, damaged no property. We've just engaged in behaviors or used substances people just don't like. And for that your life can very easily end up ruined.

Couldnt agree more. The government this country is run, mostly, by a bunch of pinheaded morons who are in the business of personal gains and notoriety than they are for defending our inalienable rights. Which, I might add, they find more and more ways to chip away at with every passing year.

And the Justice system? If the amount of money you have is the determining factor in whether your life will be destroyed for exercising what should have been your inalienable rights - well then I guess democracy and freedom are in fact going down the shitter little by little.

One thing is for sure - we all need to start voting. I'm ashamed to say it, but I've never voted - mainly because I never really liked anyone who was on the ballot. But the more people like us let things go, the more people like them get control.

BV

 

[size]

The IRS was more than likely brought in so they could do a financial study on the monies and records, and maybe run into something foolishly left behind to possibly drum up another indictment.

IRS has been involved with the BALCO scandal since the beginning due to tax evasion.

 

[Cuffs]

IRS has been involved with the BALCO scandal since the beginning due to tax evasion.

Very true. But, it's a crutch LE uses to get information they may not be able to obtain through a regular search. This way, while they look at financial documents, they may run across other information leading to additional crimes.

 

[CDB]

GREAT post, CDB.

But, the way you are wording things, it gives the reader the idea that democracy and freedom aren't ruling the day.

When the liberty of expression is the only thing left, is it still freedom?

Nope. Freedom of expression has never been enough to ensure continued freedom in a broader sense. Hence, the second ammendment. And, to be blunt, I regard democracy as the greatest destroyer of freedom. It turns government into a war machine used by some to wage wars on other citizens for aesthetic reasons by all who can gain enough power to enfoce their will on others. Some great reads, books and articles, and lectures by Hans Herman Hoppe on this subject can be found on the Mises Institute's site. He makes a very compelling argument, which I happen to agree with, that social democracy is the biggest threat to liberty. Public ownership of the government leads to a tragedy of the commons on a massive scale, with everyone looting the country for what it's worth while they can, and passing hundreds of thousands of ridiculous laws against behaviors that don't fit any classical definition of a crime, but make those in power believe they are moving the world toward being a more pleasing place by their standards.

What people don't realize is you can't make an imperfect world (in their view) perfect by passing laws against imperfection and enforcing them. Very few people want to hear the opposite approach, live and let live, and as long as you're not being harmed in any way, mind your own business.

 

[CDB]

Even if it wasn't a controlled substance at the time, he still supplied it to athletes who's organization did not allow for this type of supplementation.

Last I checked those sports organizations were not branches of the US government, and their rules did not count as laws. Therefore breaking those rules, while possible grounds for a civil action, is absolutely not grounds for criminal prosecution.

 

[diamonddave]

I'm pasting a post from bb.com where PA addresses the reason for the IRS involvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weightsanyway
I thought that the CID dept. of the IRS dealt with primarily financial crimes(ie: tax fraud, etc.). I'm NOT accusing Ergo/Pat of this of course, but does anyone know why he would have been pursued by the IRS, and not someone like the ATF, espeically if the govern. wanted to make a "statement"? Pat did you forget to claim one of your b@stard children on your taxes???

the IRS led the investigation from the beginning in SF cuz it all started with money laundering. so of course they came

The FDA also came because any potential charges would be FDA charges (sale of misbranded drug etc)

 

[natedogg]

Last I checked those sports organizations were not branches of the US government, and their rules did not count as laws. Therefore breaking those rules, while possible grounds for a civil action, is absolutely not grounds for criminal prosecution.

Last time I checked the government was making steroids in sports their business. Anyways, PA has been tiptoeing that fine line for some time now. It was going to catch up to him eventually.

 

[CDB]

Last time I checked the government was making steroids in sports their business. Anyways, PA has been tiptoeing that fine line for some time now. It was going to catch up to him eventually.

They have been. That's not say they should be, or more to the point have any right to be making it their business. I don't buy the line that tiptoeing should be necessary, and that not getting harrassed by the government when you're not breaking any laws and not hurting anyone or doing anything that isn't mutually consentual is some kind of desirable privilege and not a right that should be demanded is all. As a result I tend to ask different questions than most people and see things from different angles.

 

[Pioneer]

So the basics are: a guy who probably didn't commit a crime is getting harrassed and probably prosecuted, and will end up paying huge fines and maybe even getting jail time. Since there was most likely no crime committed, the government is basically doing this because they have an aesthetic objection to his existence. In other words because they don't like him. And what allows them to do this is the complete idiocy of the majority of the public in allowing their reps to pass hundreds of thousands of laws, or more to the point allowing unelected, unaccountable agencies make regulations that have the status of laws, and then using those laws/regs to target people they just don't like. Arnold's business and life are likely to be destroyed.

And I remember one poster recently stating he pitied me because I was living in fear of the government. Bottom line is any one of us who similarly displeases the government, either in the form of a 'scandal' with wide coverage like this one or if a local DA, cop or other enforcement official takes a disliking to us or wants to build up his career, we're just as if not more fucked. And we've hurt no one, stolen nothing, damaged no property. We've just engaged in behaviors or used substances people just don't like. And for that your life can very easily end up ruined.

If you can't do the time then don't do the crime is pure nonsense when we're talking about situations where there's an absolute lack of a crime or someone getting prosecuted for something that should not be a crime.

ill bite the bullet and go against the grain on this one. in particular the statement i have in bold i have to disagree with.

the government no matter how much you want to believe cant go in without reasonable cause that a crime has been committed. if youre going to bring up the patriot act it implies more to if not fully to suspected terrorist activity. go government agencies cant get warrents without some reasonable evidence.

also you state "something that should not be a crime"; whether you or PA thinks it shouldn't be a crime or not, it is a crime, and those crimes carry penalties, the one breaking those laws is going to have to deal with them.

"dont do the crime if you cant do the time" is perfectly sensible.

 

[Nabeshin]

"dont do the crime if you cant do the time" is perfectly sensible.

This statement enrages me. I always try to conduct myself civily in debate, so if I should fail to do so, know that it was not for lack of effort.

Those who believe in the inalienable rights enumerated in our constitution should immediately see the fallacy in this logic. For instance, if a law were to pass which required all Jews to wear yellow stars in public, on penalty of death for violation, this would be a violation of liberty. It would not be reasonable to do the time for this "crime."

On the other hand, those who believe in the supremacy of democracy will agree with the parent poster's sentiments.

In my eyes, democracy is the tyranny of the majority.

 

[joecski]

This statement enrages me. I always try to conduct myself civily in debate, so if I should fail to do so, know that it was not for lack of effort.

Those who believe in the inalienable rights enumerated in our constitution should immediately see the fallacy in this logic. For instance, if a law were to pass which required all Jews to wear yellow stars in public, on penalty of death for violation, this would be a violation of liberty. It would not be reasonable to do the time for this "crime."

On the other hand, those who believe in the supremacy of democracy will agree with the parent poster's sentiments.

In my eyes, democracy is the tyranny of the majority.

Which is why our country was founded as a republic and not a pure democracy. It is the reason we have a two house congress with equal state representation in the senate and representation based on population in the house. It is why the president is elected by the electoral college and not direct vote. These measures were set up to protect against a pure majority rule situation. Madison spoke strongly in the Federalist Papers about this concept, and about the dangers of factions and their ability to overtake our nation. Now, at a time when about 50% of our population votes, the factions seem to have taken over, and mob rule seems to be beginning.

 

[BigVrunga]

In my eyes, democracy is the tyranny of the majority

Which would work just fine if 'the majority' respected and were tolerant of other people's viewpoints and ideals. But they're not. They'll make a part of your lifestyle illegal to the point to where - if you engage in it and get caught doing so - your life (as you know it, anyway), is destroyed.

What if bodybuilders ruled the earth, and made being a wussy fatass a crime punishable by a hefty fine and a prison sentance? I think filling yourself with hydrogenated oils and refined sugars does far more damage to the human body than an 8 week cycle of testosterone.

 

[TUCKER]

i cant see pat keeping anything that could get him in trouble in his lab or house...when you know youy are being watched, you get rid of ANY evidence

 

[Nabeshin]

Which is why our country was founded as a republic and not a pure democracy. It is the reason we have a two house congress with equal state representation in the senate and representation based on population in the house. It is why the president is elected by the electoral college and not direct vote. These measures were set up to protect against a pure majority rule situation. Madison spoke strongly in the Federalist Papers about this concept, and about the dangers of factions and their ability to overtake our nation. Now, at a time when about 50% of our population votes, the factions seem to have taken over, and mob rule seems to be beginning.

As Ben Franklin said, "You have a Republic, if you can keep it."

 

[jmh80]

Just another sign that the end is near....

 

[CDB]

the government no matter how much you want to believe cant go in without reasonable cause that a crime has been committed. if youre going to bring up the patriot act it implies more to if not fully to suspected terrorist activity. go government agencies cant get warrents without some reasonable evidence.

The government doesn't need the Patriot Act. Jack booted thugs with badges have been throwing flash grenades into yards and busting down people's doors in this country for a good while now with nothing more than the suspect word of a known criminal that another 'criminal,' a drug user or dealer, resides there, with the informant usually trading the information so he could plea to a lesser charge or outright walk away himself. In many cases that has been considered reasonable cause to invade someone's home. The problem with reasonable cause is that it is defined to a large extent by the government, the very entity the standard is supposed to restrain. Because of its inconvenience it's been slowly but surely dumbed down over the years, especially in drug cases.

also you state "something that should not be a crime"; whether you or PA thinks it shouldn't be a crime or not, it is a crime, and those crimes carry penalties, the one breaking those laws is going to have to deal with them.

"dont do the crime if you cant do the time" is perfectly sensible.

No, it is not. Nabeshin gave a perfectly good example of how it is not. Crime as defined by justice is an attempt to codify ethics and morality into law. Laws are subject to ethical and moral review, ethics and morals are not subject to legal restrictions. The latter two trump the first. Doing the time for any crime inherently requires an examination of whether or not the action does in fact deserve to be labeled a crime, and if so that the punishment is reasonable. To get away from the Nazi parallel, suppose the punishment for jaywalking was a prison term. Just because most of the public was brought up to believe that steroids and other drugs are evil incarnate and that any punishment for use or possession is justifiable, that doesn't make it so. Extreme examples of prison for jaywalking and death for Jews not wearing stars make this point easier to see, but it applies to all situations involving crime and punishment.

 

[Nabeshin]

On second reading, sorry for the WWII reference guys. CDB's jaywalking example is in much better taste.

 

[Sunder]

"dont do the crime if you cant do the time" is perfectly sensible.

Many people believe this. I don't.

I feel that I am a morally correct person who has humanity's best interest at heart. But there are a decent number of laws that I disagree with.

As an example, I believe oral sex is illegal in certain states. This also happens to be a law that I disagree with.

I also disagree with that law that states if someone breaks into my house, steals my tv, but slips and breaks his neck on my rug - that he can SUE ME for an improper rug installation. (Or slip outside on snow, etc). I also disagree that I can be charged with agrivated assualt (or whatever) when I beat the living **** out of someone who was breaking into my vehicle/house.

Hell, there is a local by-law where I live that makes it illegal for 3 people to be walking abreast on any public sidewalk. You can't make this **** up - it made the front headlines because 3 kids were charged with this a few years ago. Is anyone here a criminal now?

Am I to assume that ALL your software installed on your machines right now are fully licensed and legit? Never copied a movie or taped a tv show? All your workout music is perfectly legal right? Did you know that every single iPod user in Australia that has music downloaded via iTunes is a criminal now? Nobody has been charged yet - but it was enough to make the headlines.
(Unlike U.S. copyright code, Australian regulations forbid copying a CD for personal use. That means ripping a purchased CD for portable play in an iPod (or any other device) is flat-out illegal.)

But yeah, you do the crime, you do the time - no exceptions... BS

PA - best of luck. Goverment - go **** yourself.

 

[Outside Backer]

i think it blows.

its not like this guy was selling vcrack to kids.

heroin to prostitutes

or robbing people to support his habit

he made great athletes better

he made the skinny kid in highschool have more self confidence


as if there arent greater things in this world going on then some guy looking for the next elvel

our priorities are fucked in the country

we cant catch osama bin laden accuesed of killing thousands but we can stick it to joe shmoe real good

 

[VanillaGorilla]

the government no matter how much you want to believe cant go in without reasonable cause that a crime has been committed. if youre going to bring up the patriot act it implies more to if not fully to suspected terrorist activity. go government agencies cant get warrents without some reasonable evidence.

Actually that's not true. A strip club owner was recently charged under the patriot act and it was a money laundering case I believe. There is also a sneak and peek provision in the P act where they don't really need a warrant. The government abuses power all the time. A former member of the IRS who turned into a tax protester was harassed by the IRS repeatedly. I think he just won a legal case against them. Every woman who came forward against or Damn near Bill Clinton was audited by the IRS. So the notion that the government does everything by the books simply isn't true. In many cases getting a search warrant is rubber stamped by a judges. If you piss the right people off you life can turn into a living hell.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

With PA if the IRS in involved they will probably go after him for Tax evasion or money laundering ect. which he could be guilt of.

 

[Cuffs]

So the notion that the government does everything by the books simply isn't true. In many cases getting a search warrant is rubber stamped by a judges. If you piss the right people off you life can turn into a living hell.

For the most part this is true. However, most judges do not want their names rubber stamped on a search warrant. Not to say there aren't some who will do a favor, have a certain belief, or will stretch their imagination to what they are reading. But, all LE needs to obtain a search warrant is "reasonable suspicion" that a felony has been commited, not "probable cause". Big difference between the two. An even easier way is through the Grand Jury, such as the BALCO ordeal.

 

[Rogue Drone]

If the press reports I've read are accurate, that it's the criminal division of the IRS that's involved, he's fucked. They have an very high conviction rate and even if you eventualy win, the legal costs can be crippling and it can kill your business relationships.

I would argue that breaking unjust laws is a necessity for societal progress, but don't cry foul if you are punished, that's the probable result of the game you chose to play, it's the cost of doing rightgeous business.