deciding to do my first injectable cycle please check it out

schwellington

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I have several sources for anything i want


it would be my fourth experience with anabolics previous includes

epistane (twice)

by the time this rolls around an m14add/1-testosterone/pmag bridge
and a summer cut including hdrol


I was thinking



test e 750 mg a week with injections on monday and wens

Kickstart with dianabol at 10 mgs x3 a day



I have held off from doing injectables because i am a recovering IV meth addict therefore I do not like needles(but this is a different case- or so I have convinced myself)

I also held off for moral reasons I am a Christian- I dont think God is going to ban me from the pearly gates because of juice- but my beliefs do tell me to follow the laws of the land and to be honest(whether or not I agree with the laws)


So that being said I am seriously considering this- in fact I will probly do it


please any advice or input welcome

would be a 12 week cycle

dbol week 1-6
test e all the way through

with some nolva on hand in case of armoatase
 
zachmanman

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i think god would be much happier to see that you are doing AAS instead of meth lol
 
schwellington

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I would agree!
 

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A solid first cycle would be:

Test E - 500 mg, weeks 1-12
Dbol - 3 x 10 mg per day, weeks 1-3
PCT (Nolva) - 40 mg, 40 mg, 20 mg, 20 mg, weeks 14-20

I would have arimidex on hand in case of gyno/bloat during cycle. My first cycle I ran Test E standalone for 10 weeks with great results. Looking back, I wish I did 12 weeks with a dbol kick start. The test E will kick in around week 3, so no need to take the dbol any longer than that. You should do a 2 week preload with Livercare before running any orals. You probably already know that since you have oral PH/DS cycles under your belt. Good luck!
 

TheTransforma

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Test only, 500mg/wk, nolva on hand, shoot mon and thurs. Don't go higher. 10-12 wks. Leave the dbol out. Save that for a later cycle.
 
Wudog

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Test only, 500mg/wk, nolva on hand, shoot mon and thurs. Don't go higher. 10-12 wks. Leave the dbol out. Save that for a later cycle.
agreed...if you haven't ran test yet, run it alone. See what it does for you or to you. Not knowing any sides you will get from Test will cause more problems when you run it higher at 750mg, specially since Test E has a long half life.
 
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Schwell:
Test-e: weeks 1-12 750mg per week
Dbol: weeks 1-4 50mg per day
adex: .25mg EOD if needed

PCT:
clomid:50/50/50/50
Nolva:0/0/20/20/20/20

You want to kick test-e, trust me you do.
 
schwellington

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Schwell:
Test-e: weeks 1-12 750mg per week
Dbol: weeks 1-4 50mg per day
adex: .25mg EOD if needed

PCT:
clomid:50/50/50/50
Nolva:0/0/20/20/20/20

You want to kick test-e, trust me you do.
i think im goin with this!
 

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That is just not smart. Start with a test only. Save the stacking for later. You'll gain enough the first time around on test only. 500mg 10-12 wks. Nolva at hand and you're fine to go. Diet and training program need to be in order.

You'll have a side free run @500 mg and quality gains. You up the dose after several cycles when you need to, not earlier.

And if you would want to stack, throw some deca in the same syringe, 400mg/wk. So, test 1 ml (250mg) + deca 1 ml (200mg) twice a week for a total of 500 mg test + 400 mg deca. That will bring much better results than dbol/test as you outlined.

But really, do a test only at first, you'll be more than pleased.

PS: If you're 6'1 and did 4 prohormone cycles and weighing 210 and I see your picture I can only say that you need to start eating, as with those 4 cycles, even if they were only prohormones you'll should have been much bigger already.

Have a look at your diet!
 
schwellington

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I should have made myself more clear

I have done 2 cycles as of now

by the time the injectable roles around it will have been four


and in my pic I was finishing up a three month cut(i had alot of bf from winter)


TO outline my diet

breakfast

7 eggs (2 whole/5 whites)
3/4 cup oats, 1 cup skim milk 1 cup mixed fresh fruits


workout


postworkout
60-70 g simple fast acting carbs
50g whey

1.5 hours afterpwo

6 oz 96% lean hamburger on wheat bun

2.5 hours later- repeat above meal

2.5 hours late 7 oz chicken breast serving natty pb

2.5 hours later serving pb with a whey shake

2.5 hours later several hard boiled eggs and bcaa's
 

TheTransforma

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I should have made myself more clear

I have done 2 cycles as of now

by the time the injectable roles around it will have been four


and in my pic I was finishing up a three month cut(i had alot of bf from winter)


TO outline my diet

breakfast

7 eggs (2 whole/5 whites)
3/4 cup oats, 1 cup skim milk 1 cup mixed fresh fruits


workout


postworkout
60-70 g simple fast acting carbs
50g whey

1.5 hours afterpwo

6 oz 96% lean hamburger on wheat bun

2.5 hours later- repeat above meal

2.5 hours late 7 oz chicken breast serving natty pb

2.5 hours later serving pb with a whey shake

2.5 hours later several hard boiled eggs and bcaa's

Keep your macros 33/33/33, and try to eat alot, not only on, but also off cyle. I would say you should shoot for 4000-4500 ed of Real Food. No shakes, only when really necessary as due to time constraints and such.

Rice
Chicken
Beef
Brocolli
Oatmeal
Fish

Best is to just spend some time on the computer and calculate the diet in Excel. 4000-4500 should be your range. You'll probably will end up somewhere at 240 if your diet is like this and you do 500mg/wk for 10-12 wks. Incorporate cardio depending how fast your metabolism is going to run based on that amount of food. Start off with 20 min/day and later up it to 2 x 20/day if needed.
 
schwellington

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would you suggest that much while off cycle as well? wouldnt i put on bf? (im not worried about a little bf)


I will only use shakes when needed- (at work I just run out to my car smash on the beef and run back in)


I guess i will up cals some
 
GeekPoop

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youll be fine with 500 for a first cycle. i wouldnt use 750 until ya need to.

just do mon / thurs injections or somethign similar tues / fri w/e

250 x 2 x a week. I got a ton of acne on enan, dawn dish soap will be your friend
 
schwellington

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r u serious? Dish soap?
 
GeekPoop

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r u serious? Dish soap?
no joke.

2-3 days your skin is perfectly clean.

kinda red for a couple days cuz hot water n you scrub the siht outta it. but it works wonders
 
UnrealMachine

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The main thing i agree with is that Schwell needs to increase calories substantially. I think cutting and recomping and all that crap is a big mistake when you're still too small to have a solid foundation of muscle and that's a big reason a lot of guys here aren't nearly as big as they should be. They get 75% of the foundation they need but OH NOES 14% bodyfat so they waste months running a cut and lose LBM and come out of it what, 11% bodyfat and at 70% of the foundation they need.... When you start training you just need to BULK BULK BULK and get that foundation.

At 6'1 that foundation comes when you are at around 185 pounds of LBM i.e. 205 lbs and 10% bodyfat.
JUST MY OPINION


Anyway DBOL KICKSTART
----> YES FOR SURE. Why would you not run dbol for the first few weeks? You have 4 weeks of basically 0 gains from the test. There is virtually 0 drug interaction so there's no complications. And the only complications you would run into are estrogen which you counter the same way for each drug. Starting with Dbol you're starting off at least 10 pounds ahead and with a significant strength boost.
WHY would someone recommend 3 weeks... if your liver can't handle 4 weeks of Dbol frnakly you shouldn't be doing any oral steroids because your liver is pathetic... Run 4 weeks (maybe even 5) as that's how long it'll take the test to kick in

TEST DOSING ----> This is simple start at 500 but have enough oil on hand so that you can bump to 750 if you really want to without really limiting the duration of your cycle too much. Is 750 too much? NO some people need more than others. Some people would argue that 500 is too much and that you really only need 300-400 your first time. I think magical #s are all bull**** and you gain the most understanding by playing with your dose. Testosterone is pretty safe to play with, ALL you need to worry about with sides is controlling estrogen with an AI which is fairly simple.
SO it's not like 750 is TOO MUCH or dangerous. People use grams of test a week... it's not like 3g of test has 6x as many sides as 500mg...

Also injection frequency Schwell you said Mon/Wed how does that make any sense? if you are going to shoot twice a week you may as well spread it out properly and do Mon/Thurs. NOT that I think it matters a whole lot with an ester with a half life longer than an entire week but just sayin.


Transforma you really confused me you say that a dbol kickstart and 750mg of test is not smart but adding deca somehow is? With deca you bring in a whole slew of possible prolactin sides which requires a completely different set of counters in order to deal with. Test/Dbol is much simpler to deal with than Test/Deca. Test/Deca you have drug interactions the whole time and you may get gyno and not know what's giving you gyno, estro or prolactin and then if it's deca gyno and deca **** happens you have to drop the deca and wait like 2 weeks for it to clear. Ok i admit that is a worst case scenario! But still Dbol with an incredibly short half life is much, much safer/easier to use.
 
SouthernCharm

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TEST DOSING ----> This is simple start at 500 but have enough oil on hand so that you can bump to 750 if you really want to without really limiting the duration of your cycle too much. Is 750 too much? NO some people need more than others. Some people would argue that 500 is too much and that you really only need 300-400 your first time. I think magical #s are all bull**** and you gain the most understanding by playing with your dose. Testosterone is pretty safe to play with, ALL you need to worry about with sides is controlling estrogen with an AI which is fairly simple.
SO it's not like 750 is TOO MUCH or dangerous. People use grams of test a week... it's not like 3g of test has 6x as many sides as 500mg...
People. Who are the "people"? Do you know the "people"? Do you know the condition of their health?

Excessive amounts of testosterone will raise RBC and hematocrit which is not good for his BP and other organs.

The size and weight and shape of the OP strongly suggest that he is a beginner in many aspects and the beginner dose is 400-500mg. There is nothing in his experience or physical condition to suggest that he do anything other than the bread and butter dose of 400-500mg/w for 12 to 16 weeks.

The use of AI has been shown to negatively effect lipid profiles and not something to take lightly either.
 
SouthernCharm

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The use of AI has been shown to negatively effect lipid profiles and not something to take lightly either.
This is why RYR and coq10, as well as fish oils will forever remain in my supplement stash!
 
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This is why RYR and coq10, as well as fish oils will forever remain in my supplement stash!
So you counter the side effects of one drug with the use of another drug who's side effect needs to be counter with the use of multiple other drugs...and on and on... :think:
 

TheTransforma

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An AI while on like arimidex will kill alot of the gains made. I've tried everything AAS wise. Just hold some nolva on hand just in case you get signs of gyno. Hcg (optional) and nolva (necessary) as PCT.
 
SouthernCharm

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So you counter the side effects of one drug with the use of another drug who's side effect needs to be counter with the use of multiple other drugs...and on and on... :think:
If you want to put it that way I guess. All I meant is that I take fish oil as a staple, and I feel confident from reading up on RYR that it is beneficial to your lipid profiles. However I did find that coq10 levels are depleted while using RYR, so one would supplement coq10 to make up for what's lost. That is all I meant.
 

TheTransforma

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would you suggest that much while off cycle as well? wouldnt i put on bf? (im not worried about a little bf)


I will only use shakes when needed- (at work I just run out to my car smash on the beef and run back in)


I guess i will up cals some
Yes, what the food will do is speed up your metabolism like there is no tomorrow. Just at in a minimal of 20 min/day of light cardio. Increase to 2 x 20 when needed, no more. Combine it with some heavy weight training and you'll be good to go.
 
UnrealMachine

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People. Who are the "people"? Do you know the "people"? Do you know the condition of their health?

Excessive amounts of testosterone will raise RBC and hematocrit which is not good for his BP and other organs.

The size and weight and shape of the OP strongly suggest that he is a beginner in many aspects and the beginner dose is 400-500mg. There is nothing in his experience or physical condition to suggest that he do anything other than the bread and butter dose of 400-500mg/w for 12 to 16 weeks.

The use of AI has been shown to negatively effect lipid profiles and not something to take lightly either.
Thousands of bodybuilders use significantly more than a gram of test... this is well known. I was not trying to suggest it for a first timer, merely showing that in the broad spectrum of dosing, the difference between 500 and 750 isn't extremely large.

All I was suggesting there was that he start at the "standard" 500mg dose but he leaves himself the option to try 750mg. This is important for future reference. If he doesn't get anything more from 750 than sides, great, he knows not to bother with it again next time (and there will be a next time).
If for some reason 750mg provides better gains with no new sides, then he knows that in the future it will be worthwhile to investigate higher doses.

Yes it is true that BP and other things get out of whack on a cycle but this is something you accept because so long as you are at "cycling" doses it's going to happen to one extent or another. There's support supplements to help with this though but frankly so long as your cycle has an end in sight it shouldn't be a big deal.
There are risks everybody accepts when they start this and I have accepted those risks... I think schwellington has accepted them as well. This cycle is a lot better than his proposed 12 week oral cycle he was thinking about several weeks ago lol... :)

So you counter the side effects of one drug with the use of another drug who's side effect needs to be counter with the use of multiple other drugs...and on and on... :think:
Are you saying that fish oil, among the other things SC listed, is a drug? That needs to be countered by other drugs?
 
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Thousands of bodybuilders use significantly more than a gram of test... this is well known. I was not trying to suggest it for a first timer, merely showing that in the broad spectrum of dosing, the difference between 500 and 750 isn't extremely large.

All I was suggesting there was that he start at the "standard" 500mg dose but he leaves himself the option to try 750mg. This is important for future reference. If he doesn't get anything more from 750 than sides, great, he knows not to bother with it again next time (and there will be a next time).
If for some reason 750mg provides better gains with no new sides, then he knows that in the future it will be worthwhile to investigate higher doses.

Yes it is true that BP and other things get out of whack on a cycle but this is something you accept because so long as you are at "cycling" doses it's going to happen to one extent or another. There's support supplements to help with this though but frankly so long as your cycle has an end in sight it shouldn't be a big deal.
There are risks everybody accepts when they start this and I have accepted those risks... I think schwellington has accepted them as well. This cycle is a lot better than his proposed 12 week oral cycle he was thinking about several weeks ago lol... :)



Are you saying that fish oil, among the other things SC listed, is a drug? That needs to be countered by other drugs?
My point is - the thousands of anonymous bodybuilder that are using grams of test are also experiencing adverse negative health effects anonymously as well. You don't and wont hear the message of negative health effects that thousands are experiencing with the use grams a day when they cycle.

Those who are health and longevity conscious ALWAYS recommend a conservative approach when using anything, where the take home message is to use up to the amount that provides the most benefit and least negative sides.

Inherently everyone accepts the risk but I assure you that gleaning a few posts of a reputable message board member does not inform or educate one on the plethora of health risks associated with steroid use. I am not at all suggesting or presenting an anti-steroid message but there is much ignorance within the community of users and the same find comfort in the companionship of said community.

I use f/o regardless. But as SC stated himself the RYR requires coQ10 and on and on. The next thing you know the introduction of an endogenously produced hormone like testosterone in high doses has lead to an AI, which has lead to RYR which has lead to coQ10 and on and on. A low-moderate dose of testosterone would negate all of that counter-supplementation completely.

Moderate and conservative use leads to less adverse health effects and overall greater longevity of use and life.
 
gamer2be08

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My point is - the thousands of anonymous bodybuilder that are using grams of test are also experiencing adverse negative health effects anonymously as well. You don't and wont hear the message of negative health effects that thousands are experiencing with the use grams a day when they cycle.

Those who are health and longevity conscious ALWAYS recommend a conservative approach when using anything, where the take home message is to use up to the amount that provides the most benefit and least negative sides.

Inherently everyone accepts the risk but I assure you that gleaning a few posts of a reputable message board member does not inform or educate one on the plethora of health risks associated with steroid use. I am not at all suggesting or presenting an anti-steroid message but there is much ignorance within the community of users and the same find comfort in the companionship of said community.

I use f/o regardless. But as SC stated himself the RYR requires coQ10 and on and on. The next thing you know the introduction of an endogenously produced hormone like testosterone in high doses has lead to an AI, which has lead to RYR which has lead to coQ10 and on and on. A low-moderate dose of testosterone would negate all of that counter-supplementation completely.

Moderate and conservative use leads to less adverse health effects and overall greater longevity of use and life.
Would you consider 500mg EW a conservative dose?

Also David, some people can take 250mg a week and get estrogen problems, forcing them to use an AI at a really low dose..
Some people will get major BP problems, causing them to get Coq10, RYR, fish oil etc..

People are predisposed to some medical follies..

What is considered high to one individual, may be the conservative dose for another..

There are so many factors..
 
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Would you consider 500mg EW a conservative dose?

Also David, some people can take 250mg a week and get estrogen problems, forcing them to use an AI at a really low dose..
Some people will get major BP problems, causing them to get Coq10, RYR, fish oil etc..

People are predisposed to some medical follies..


What is considered high to one individual, may be the conservative dose for another..

There are so many factors..
400-500mg would be a conservative approach, yes.

Getting hit by a car also has medical ramification. It makes sense then to not play in traffic.

It's one thing to improve your physique but I fear the invincible mentality has overtaken the mindset of many.

Major BP issues suggest that it's not wise to risk your health or life for your physique. When one does so despite the evidence it displays a risk/reward behavior that presents symptoms of deeper issues beyond just physique enhancement.
 
gamer2be08

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400-500mg would be a conservative approach, yes.

Getting hit by a car also has medical ramification. It makes sense then to not play in traffic.

It's one thing to improve your physique but I fear the invincible mentality has overtaken the mindset of many.

Major BP issues suggest that it's not wise to risk your health or life for your physique. When one does so despite the evidence it displays a risk/reward behavior that presents symptoms of deeper issues beyond just physique enhancement.
I am on the same page as you..
 

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my two cents...its his first run on the real sauce. Unless you have someone super knowledgable holding ur hand basically as you do this, I would suggest being on the conservative side as well. From your height and weight, I would jus do 400mg of test a week-injections Monday and Thursday to keep a steady level in your system, and rund the dbol for the first 4 weeks. If you get to your 8th week and your not having any issues bump up the test a 100mg, but honestly on your first go your gonna gain if your gear is legit. Once upon a time I remember my first go, 300mg a week of test-cyp, and dbol for 6 weeks, went from 195 to 230 in 8 weeks.

Your first time is the best bro, meaning that your receptors are fresh and your gonna grow the most. Stay on the conservative side till you see if your body is prone to any adverse reactions. Trust me on that one you want to avoid side effects!!!
 

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Schwell:
Test-e: weeks 1-12 750mg per week
Dbol: weeks 1-4 50mg per day
adex: .25mg EOD if needed

PCT:
clomid:50/50/50/50
Nolva:0/0/20/20/20/20

You want to kick test-e, trust me you do.
I agree with this too, though my test is 350mg/mL, so I'll be doing 700/wk. I get hard reading the newspaper.
 

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Im thinking of runing a low dose 10 week test Cyp cycle at 250 mg a wk starting sept 1 with a Superdrone 4 week kickstart at 20/20/20/20 This will be my first injectable..But i was wondering what type of hormonal issues you guys think i might encounter??? Like temper depression etc from a dose that low?? Also as for acne do you exoperience that on your face or are you refering to back and shoulders? And would you think i would experience much acne on only 250 mg a week???

sorry for the newb questions but again this will be my first inject cycle so I am full of question:) thanks
 
schwellington

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Thousands of bodybuilders use significantly more than a gram of test... this is well known. I was not trying to suggest it for a first timer, merely showing that in the broad spectrum of dosing, the difference between 500 and 750 isn't extremely large.

All I was suggesting there was that he start at the "standard" 500mg dose but he leaves himself the option to try 750mg. This is important for future reference. If he doesn't get anything more from 750 than sides, great, he knows not to bother with it again next time (and there will be a next time).
If for some reason 750mg provides better gains with no new sides, then he knows that in the future it will be worthwhile to investigate higher doses.

Yes it is true that BP and other things get out of whack on a cycle but this is something you accept because so long as you are at "cycling" doses it's going to happen to one extent or another. There's support supplements to help with this though but frankly so long as your cycle has an end in sight it shouldn't be a big deal.
There are risks everybody accepts when they start this and I have accepted those risks... I think schwellington has accepted them as well. This cycle is a lot better than his proposed 12 week oral cycle he was thinking about several weeks ago lol... :)



Are you saying that fish oil, among the other things SC listed, is a drug? That needs to be countered by other drugs?

I agree unreal- im very glad my judgement kicked in and i decided not to run a 12 week oral cycle- was stupid period lol i will admitt it


on another hand- i am going to do this- i am determined- I have been lifting for about 2 years now- but only in the last year really got a firm hold on what it is I should be doing- so one year really

cals are going up started today- im not HUGE but im a husky fellow who is getting there- ive mad eup my mind- when I hit 240- then I will start cutting again- shouldnt take too long


So yes I will start the 500 mg dose- see how the body responds watch my bp a so on- if i feel okay after 5-7 weeks i may bump it up may not- will consult you all


I understand both approaches(unreal's and Dunns) and thank you both for time and input!
 
zachmanman

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if you're a real hardass and you don't want to mess with dbol you can jumpstart with prop or ace for the first 4 weeks
 
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I agree unreal- im very glad my judgement kicked in and i decided not to run a 12 week oral cycle- was stupid period lol i will admitt it


on another hand- i am going to do this- i am determined- I have been lifting for about 2 years now- but only in the last year really got a firm hold on what it is I should be doing- so one year really

cals are going up started today- im not HUGE but im a husky fellow who is getting there- ive mad eup my mind- when I hit 240- then I will start cutting again- shouldnt take too long


So yes I will start the 500 mg dose- see how the body responds watch my bp a so on- if i feel okay after 5-7 weeks i may bump it up may not- will consult you all


I understand both approaches(unreal's and Dunns) and thank you both for time and input!
Sound judgement indeed.

Dude, at your height, with proper training and diet you could easily put on 20lbs of muscle in a year without steroids.

I could easily put 20lbs on your steroid free.

Steroids without the prerequisite of that experience is a waste of steroids.

Best of luck!
 
schwellington

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Sound judgement indeed.

Dude, at your height, with proper training and diet you could easily put on 20lbs of muscle in a year without steroids.

I could easily put 20lbs on your steroid free.

Steroids without the prerequisite of that experience is a waste of steroids.

Best of luck!
What u saying? I have the genetics to gain easily? Makes sense- my older brother was all natural(so he sais) squatting like 800 and benching like 500 i think? I dunno but what im going to do before i run the injects is spend about another year of eating HUGE and training and resting- i will probly use oral designers along the way to help out


But before i start injects i want to be at least up in the middle 200's

Im 213 right now- upped cals gunna hit 218 by the end of 30 days
 

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If you have never used test before, I'd go with 500mg. I ran numerous ph cycles prior to starting injects, and 500mg/wk did wonders. Don't loose out on the gains you can make from 500mg alone.
 
schwellington

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If you have never used test before, I'd go with 500mg. I ran numerous ph cycles prior to starting injects, and 500mg/wk did wonders. Don't loose out on the gains you can make from 500mg alone.
I will do this- espec if i am kick starting with dbol- on another note i upped my cals as reccomended and have already packed on a lb at 214- I want to hit 240 by the end of the winter (feb) I think with m14add/pmag cycle i can hit 230 and keep it at 225- but when i do run an injectable ( a year or so from now due to advice from people here) it will be test e with dbol
 

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Sound judgement indeed.

Dude, at your height, with proper training and diet you could easily put on 20lbs of muscle in a year without steroids.

I could easily put 20lbs on your steroid free.
I call BS I an sorry. 20lbs of MUSCLE in a yr w/o aas!?! Maybe for a newbie but at 6'1" 210+ you have a solid base, even at 15%bf.

I agree moderation is key. Starting at 500mg/wk is a great starting point. Some see great gains at this dose and others need a higher dose. If you want to add an oral kickstart that's the persons choice. Some people hate orals some are willing to take the health risk. Same goes with inj. There are risks to everything.

OP: 500mg test e 12 wks with 4-5am kickstart is fine. Use an AI if you have estrogen sensitivity or sides. Use proper PCT and your good to go.
 

Liftingstud

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Oops 4-5wk kickstart... Damn iPhone lol
 
SouthernCharm

SouthernCharm

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I call BS I an sorry. 20lbs of MUSCLE in a yr w/o aas!?! Maybe for a newbie but at 6'1" 210+ you have a solid base, even at 15%bf.

I agree moderation is key. Starting at 500mg/wk is a great starting point. Some see great gains at this dose and others need a higher dose. If you want to add an oral kickstart that's the persons choice. Some people hate orals some are willing to take the health risk. Same goes with inj. There are risks to everything.

OP: 500mg test e 12 wks with 4-5am kickstart is fine. Use an AI if you have estrogen sensitivity or sides. Use proper PCT and your good to go.
Reps bro. Well said.
 

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