Topic of the Week: Is Fat Loss only about Calories?

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Given the numerous ways people can lose bodyfat, is it only about calories or do macro's actually matter? Are we just splitting hairs about what actually works or can you achieve the same results with different macros. Is one scienticially better than the other?
 
kbayne

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Depending on insulin sensitivity, comes down to calories in vs calories out (as long as hitting protein intake needs for the day).
 
Driven2lift

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Only?
No

But for the context of the general population just wanting to lose weight its all they need to know
 
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Notice how I asked about fat loss and not weight loss.....Does your opinion change then?
 
kbayne

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Notice how I asked about fat loss and not weight loss.....Does your opinion change then?
Not mine, but once you hit a certain BF%, there can be certain macronutrient (carb and fat) timing and breakdown plays that may lead to greater fat loss.
 

ma70

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From what I've read and noticed on my own personally, calories in vs calories out definitely plays a roll until you get to leaner BF%, then you have to start dialing everything in.
 
Driven2lift

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Notice how I asked about fat loss and not weight loss.....Does your opinion change then?
No, not really
It's still about diet and really all they need to concern themselves with

That said, of course resistance training added will speed body composition changes and more muscle makes fat loss come easier. But I don't trust the average Joe/Jane to jump into training on top of a calorie deficit and do well not coached.


Watching calories is a hell of a better method than looking online at miracle cleanses, diuretics, terribly limiting diet outlines, etc.

If the general population knew how food energy worked and how to track, people who care about their bodies should all be on the right track
 
breezy11

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No. Focusing solely on "calories in vs. calories out" can be effective to some extent and a decent approach for the general population, but that isn't the question.

Obviously, a caloric deficit will lead to weight loss; however, I feel that how a diet is structured (macros and timing/source of those macros) can have an impact on what percentage of that weight is fat vs. muscle (same goes for weight gain). Two diets can have the same calories, but one may favor "fat" loss (and retention of LBM) more than the other.

People are willing to over analyze every last aspect of their supplementation, but when it comes to nutrition, there seems to be a trend of "nothing matters".
 
Driven2lift

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By no means do I, or any bodybuilder here, only use calories

I just feel that's the best first step the general population needs to learn.
It debunks and eliminates a lot of terrible diets and products out there that I'd love to see gone.

Myself,
High protein is a must and carb-load is peri-workout.
Macros certainly matter to me as does timing
 
MidwestBeast

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Simple answer: yes

Legit answer: no



It's all about a caloric deficit or surplus at the end of the day; whether it's by food intake, lack thereof, or exercise or inactivity to create that deficit or surplus. But if you're looking for the legitimate answer, you have to take into account that if my threshold is 2,000 calories for maintenance and I ate 500g of sugar in one sitting (or even 2 or 3), the insulin spikes and effect on glucose levels and the potential for fat storage is going to be different than if I ate a 40/40/20 split or something else.


Basically that calorie mark is what most people need to concern themselves with and in a way we are in fact just splitting hairs beyond that. However, it would be an oversight to just dismiss everything else and not acknowledge the roles that other macronutrients play in the body.

I also believe each individual has his or her own genetic situation that influences all of this (e.g. I know a friend who eats trash and still looks better than 90% of the public).
 
Jiigzz

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To add to what Midwest said, and to take it further - if Calories were all that mattered then you should be able to eat all your Calories from one macro source and get the same results as someone who disperses them between Macros.

If Macros were all that mattered, then you should be able to neglect Calories and eat a special combination of food that promoted fat loss.

Alas, you need distribution between the 3 macros as well as overall awareness of Calorie needs in order to drop body fat.
 
mixedup

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Above 10% for me mainly kcal once single digits I need to begin carb manipulation
 
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Intersted to see if someone actually went lower protein (not extreme low) but lower than whats usually recommened. Lets say a 60-30-10 and if there was any difference. I personally think people consume too much protein.
 

ma70

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Intersted to see if someone actually went lower protein (not extreme low) but lower than whats usually recommened. Lets say a 60-30-10 and if there was any difference. I personally think people consume too much protein.
Agreed. I always consume 1g per lean mass of protein when not dieting, and 1g per lb bodyweight when dieting and it's been fine here.
 
MidwestBeast

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Intersted to see if someone actually went lower protein (not extreme low) but lower than whats usually recommened. Lets say a 60-30-10 and if there was any difference. I personally think people consume too much protein.
I've done it accidentally before lol, but never charted it closely enough or did it consistently enough for me to know.

But I'd wager you're correct; particularly for those who have less total muscle (e.g. I think it would be harder for Big Ramy to go lower on his protein and not have it have a negative impact).
 
Driven2lift

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Even if it didnt benefit my lean mass I would still eat as much protein

Satiety is my best damn friend
+ I love meat
+ higher protein does help preserve lean mass in studies so I figure it can't hurt to go 1g/lb.
 

TheIronAsylum

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the **** if i know lol i hate fat loss or anything involved with cutting . if im hungry im gunna eat and i dont like eating like a female

:dance:
 
xR1pp3Rx

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With the use of a potent drug stack I found no difference between high and low protein, this have stayed low ever since... drug stack ends in a week so I will be going back to high intake very soon.
 
EMPIREMIND

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I personally have found that all calories are not created equal. Calories in/out is time tested for weight loss, but for fat loss and muscle retention, what your calories consist of is very important.
 
The_Old_Guy

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It's a combo of macros mattering some what, and a deficit - but even then, if you want to sacrifice muscle mass as you lose fat (which will make it harder), and I had to pick one, it would be a deficit as most important.

I too think people eat too much protein. In the last 17 months, I've gone from 285 to 215. Reps/Weights kept increasing consuming "just" 1.6g/Kg. Only in the last couple weeks did I stall, so I have now raised it to 2.4g/Kg. My last two workouts on the new intakes (resulting in slightly higher calories - so I may be able to back it back down and just add carbs - still experimenting) resulted in new PRs.

I say figure the deficit needed calorically - solve for protein to maintain or add LBM - add the minimum fat needed for hormonal health - and fill the rest with carbs. Brown Rice or White Sugar may not matter, but you'll be micronutrient healthier using the rice.
 

Akagami

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Given the numerous ways people can lose bodyfat, is it only about calories or do macro's actually matter? Are we just splitting hairs about what actually works or can you achieve the same results with different macros. Is one scienticially better than the other?
For general purposes it probably doesn't matter much. Find what fits your lifestyle and go into a deficit.

For those in the game and who want to achieve long term results (5 even 10+ years of lifting from now on) I'm sure we can make changes that benefit our goals.

Warning: Incoming Broscience Professor

When I hear people talk about how it's mostly "calories in vs out" at the end of the day I can't help but notice how they almost never give thought to the ratio of fat:LBM gained or lost. In my mind, I see calories as the factor that pushes weight gain or loss, but the adjustments we can make, supplements we can take, changes to training, meal timing, sleep etc as the optimization of body composition. For example let's say you diet down to 180lbs/10% BF and now you are maintaining on a relatively active schedule and 2300 calories a day. Without changing your calorie intake there is probably a way to optimize how your body uses the calories you consume. Finding the optimal environment for you may take you 8% on the same calorie intake (yes, these numbers are arbitrary).

Given that our body is in a constant state of breaking down/using fat as energy, storing fat, building muscle, and also breaking down muscle, it would be best if we could find a way for our calories to be used as energy (for movement/exercise) and used in muscle building processes, while minimizing our calories being stored as fat and minimizing the muscle our body breaks down to maintain function.

I mostly see it this way because we know there are people who can keep a fairly lean and muscular body on a certain intake level, while other people will not be able to (and in the worst case, have poor body composition). I don't think that is even debatable. As an organism, some human bodies are incredibly gifted at being lean and muscular and others are not.

The debatable and kind of black box part then is the degree to which we can optimize it or if we are just fighting against our inherited bodies.
 
DirtyWilly

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If it was only about calories in vs calories out then why does every single starvation diet fail terribly? Are all those fat chicks on weight-watchers snacking at night, every one?
 
Jiigzz

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If it was only about calories in vs calories out then why does every single starvation diet fail terribly? Are all those fat chicks on weight-watchers snacking at night, every one?
The body doesnt like to starv. But in order to lose weight a deficit must occur
 
MrKleen73

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Everyone has their own personal and hormonal make up. Certainly for "Weight loss" calories in vs calories out will be the simplest route. However the uniqueness of each person hormones, sensitivities, if they have been fat before, just a ton of factors to be considered to optimize fat loss and composition.

I simple but obvious detractor of this would be someone who is in a huge caloric deficit and has been for a while. Their metabolism slows to a crawl and they stop or stall losing fat. Someone comes in and teaches them to reverse diet in order to increase their BMR they start adding in carbs increasing leptin stores which increases BMR, then begin losing fat again at a higher caloric level due to an increased and healthier BMR.

Obviously you simplify these questions to leave a lot of room for debate or discussion which I love. There really are so many different factors that can be manipulated. The type of reps you perform can completely change the way your body handles carbohydrate. There are too many things to consider and or cover in this thread.

However scientifically it is proven over and over again that the best way to lose fat is one that you will stick with. There is a psychological aspect to it. If certain macro ratios make compliance easier for one person then that is the best situation for them. There is a reason there are so many effective diets out there. So many individuals that fit into certain boxes and the diets they migrate to and are comfortable with they love and latch on to. However the body changes regularly and what nutrition you needed during a Mountain Dog workout is may be a little different than what you may need with doing something with a lot of eccentric lifting. Eccentric lifting lowers the amount of Glut4 and Glut 12 in the muscle (what pulls glycogen into the muscle cells). Explosive lifting with less negatives increases the amounts of those two GLUTs. You could more than likely take in more carbs after training a Meadows program for a few weeks. Just like you may need to lower carbs a little after a while on an eccentric based program since the muscle becomes less efficient at glycogen uptake. How that ties into it is if less of the glycogen goes into the muscle, then it is left behind to possibly be stored in fat cells.

In the end calories in vs calories out works, but when you want to change the composition of the fat loss the other factors come into play for increasing efficiency.
 

ma70

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Everyone has their own personal and hormonal make up. Certainly for "Weight loss" calories in vs calories out will be the simplest route. However the uniqueness of each person hormones, sensitivities, if they have been fat before, just a ton of factors to be considered to optimize fat loss and composition.

I simple but obvious detractor of this would be someone who is in a huge caloric deficit and has been for a while. Their metabolism slows to a crawl and they stop or stall losing fat. Someone comes in and teaches them to reverse diet in order to increase their BMR they start adding in carbs increasing leptin stores which increases BMR, then begin losing fat again at a higher caloric level due to an increased and healthier BMR.

Obviously you simplify these questions to leave a lot of room for debate or discussion which I love. There really are so many different factors that can be manipulated. The type of reps you perform can completely change the way your body handles carbohydrate. There are too many things to consider and or cover in this thread.

However scientifically it is proven over and over again that the best way to lose fat is one that you will stick with. There is a psychological aspect to it. If certain macro ratios make compliance easier for one person then that is the best situation for them. There is a reason there are so many effective diets out there. So many individuals that fit into certain boxes and the diets they migrate to and are comfortable with they love and latch on to. However the body changes regularly and what nutrition you needed during a Mountain Dog workout is may be a little different than what you may need with doing something with a lot of eccentric lifting. Eccentric lifting lowers the amount of Glut4 and Glut 12 in the muscle (what pulls glycogen into the muscle cells). Explosive lifting with less negatives increases the amounts of those two GLUTs. You could more than likely take in more carbs after training a Meadows program for a few weeks. Just like you may need to lower carbs a little after a while on an eccentric based program since the muscle becomes less efficient at glycogen uptake. How that ties into it is if less of the glycogen goes into the muscle, then it is left behind to possibly be stored in fat cells.

In the end calories in vs calories out works, but when you want to change the composition of the fat loss the other factors come into play for increasing efficiency.
Thank you for posting this. Actually learned a bit just by reading it.
 
kirkmorgan

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It's definitely, not about calories.. It's has a lot to do with, how the metabolism and digestive system, are functioning.. How much stress the subject encounters, because the stress hormone cortisol, lowers thyroid levels for one.. Not absorbing the calories eaten properly. Due to low bacteria.. This is just a small part of what can determine successful weight loss.. Hope this helps?
Kirk..
 
Jiigzz

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It's definitely, not about calories.. It's has a lot to do with, how the metabolism and digestive system, are functioning.. How much stress the subject encounters, because the stress hormone cortisol, lowers thyroid levels for one.. Not absorbing the calories eaten properly. Due to low bacteria.. This is just a small part of what can determine successful weight loss.. Hope this helps?
Kirk..
Low thyroid output (not actually that prevelant unless you diagnose yourself) lowers energy expenditure (Calorie useage).

Not ingesting calories (again, not that prevelant unless self diagnosed) reduces Calorie uptake.

In some way they are all Calorie iasues :p

I get what you mean, the puzzle is far more complex but the take home is - Calorie excess precedes weight gain, Calorie deficit precedes weight loss, macro manipulation can alter the % of muscle: fat 'burned'
 
bad rad

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You are what you absorb. As for fatloss it depends on the type of macros while dieting. Full blown keto is fairly insufficient in conversion and you lose calories through ketones that are excreted in multiple pathways if not burned quickly enough.
 
DirtyWilly

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So hypothetical number 2 that we've all seen before...

If I ate 1500 calories of lettuce vs 1500 calories of pizza, everyday... I would lose the exact, identical, amount of weight?
 
Jiigzz

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So hypothetical number 2 that we've all seen before...

If I ate 1500 calories of lettuce vs 1500 calories of pizza, everyday... I would lose the exact, identical, amount of weight?
Thats a lot of lettuce.

Macros play a role but overall intake is requires to induce the weightloss in the first place.
 
kirkmorgan

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Wight gain can occur, due to excess oestrogen intake and chemicals, the body converts the excess to a lesser Estrogen, estradiol, the role of which is weight gain, with out any influence off calories.)
 

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