Rhodiola with Piperine

[muscleupcrohn]

I was doing some reading on rhodiola and came across this first:

Herb-Drug Interactions: Rhodiola | Rhodiola | Medicinal Plants

It said this:

A study in rats found that the addition of piperine, an alkaloid found in pepper, to an extract of rhodiola (SHR-5, containing rhodioloside 2.7%, rosavin 6% and tyrosol 0.8%), unexpectedly reduced the antidepressant activity of rhodiola. The maximum plasma concentration of rhodioloside was reduced by 22%, and the AUC and maximum plasma concentration of rosavin were increased by 33% and 82%, respectively.

That page didn't link to or reference the study, but I was able to find this:

Comparative study of Rhodiola preparations on behavioral despair of rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Which, in the full text, states:

When combination of Rhodiola and piperine containing
extract (RPE) was tested an abnormal dose
dependant effect was observed – the activity of the
preparation is decreasing when the dose is increasing in
the range of doses 10–50 mg/kg RPE, Table 1, Fig. 3.
Combination of piperine with Rhodiola distorts
pharmacological effect of Rhodiola most probably due
to changes of pharmacokinetic profile of rhodioloside
and rosavine (Table 2).
After the administration of RPE the absorption of
Rosavin into the blood is much higher than it is after
administration of RR. The maximal concentration of
Rosavin is increasing in 1.8 times at the 1.4 times dose
increase. The pharmacokinetic of rhodioloside is completely
differently changed, in particular a longer
elimination time. It is also absorbed faster, but longer
eliminated from the blood. However in both cases
apparent volume of distribution is decreased, because of
decreased bioavailability...

Thus, we conclude that combination of Rhodiola
with piperine (RPE) cannot provide predictable therapeutic
effect due to herb–herb interaction in the dose
level of piperine higher of 0.08 mg/kg (in rat, that is
theoretically equivalent to dose of 0.01 mg/kg in human).
Moreover, concomitant treatment of this preparation
(RPE) with other drugs should also be taken
into consideration.

The study was conducted in rats, and used 10-50 mg/kg rhodiola extract (1.25-6.25 mg/kg for humans, or 100-500mg for an 80kg person), and 0.08mg/kg piperine (0.01mg/kg for humans, or 0.8mg for an 80 kg human), both of which seem to be reasonable doses for human supplementation.

With this in mind, what does everyone think of the combination of rhodiola and piperine, which I've seen in a supplement or two?

 

[kisaj]

Based on this, I would say it has an adverse effect, unlike when it is added to other supplements for absorption. I have never come across it added to a rhodiola product, but would assume if it were, it was to help other ingredients in a blend. Unfortunately, it looks like it would be diminishing some of the benefit of rhodiola in the process.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Based on this, I would say it has an adverse effect, unlike when it is added to other supplements for absorption. I have never come across it added to a rhodiola product, but would assume if it were, it was to help other ingredients in a blend. Unfortunately, it looks like it would be diminishing some of the benefit of rhodiola in the process.

I've never seen it added to a rhodiola-only or a rhodiola-dominant supplement, only in supplements that include rhodiola among other ingredients (Conqu3r Unleashed Stim Free, Irwin Sunny Mood, etc). If nothing else, it makes me question the inclusion of piperine in a supplement with the assumption that it will automatically increase the bioavailability of whatever it's added to.

Apparently Sabinsa (who makes BioPerine) states that BioPerine enhances the bioavailiblity of boswellia, ashwagandha, Gingko biloba, and capsaicin, but I haven't seen any studies/paper/data on this.
http://www.sabinsa.com/products/standardized-phytoextracts/bioperine/BioPerine.pdf

 

[kisaj]

Totally agree and why I dislike any blends for the most part.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I figure I'll just use this thread as a general rhodiola discussion thread.

I just read a very interesting article by Dr. Howard Peiper and Dr. Zakir Ramazanov regarding rhodiola. Here are some of the more interesting excerpts (paraphrased, except when quoted, since I can't seem to copy and paste from the PDF):

"Rhodiola rosea is far more than just another adaptogen from Siberia, such as Siberian Ginseng, Aralia or Schizandra. Extracts of Rhodiola Rosea possess a truly extraordinary combination of health benefits, without damaging side effects."

Apparently they state that researchers found that rhodiola was more effective as an anti-depressant than St. Johns Wort, Kava Kava, and, at times, SAMe.

In regards to physical performance, the paper mentions a study using 112 athletes in which 89% of subjects taking rhodiola improved more rapidly in performance in sports such as track and field, swimming, speed skaing, and ski racing. Strength and speed were also improved compared to the control group. Perhaps more interesting, it mentions that 69% of athletes supplementing with rhodiola "displayed accelerated adaptation to climatic and social conditions and 86% demonstrated improved appetite."

Also, interestingly, the paper mentions that "TRUE rhodiola extract contains sufficient standardized levels of its unique active constituents... Salidroside... alone should never be used as the objective standard for Rhodiola rosea evaluation." (it seems that all of the promising studies on rhodiola used either an extract with 3% rosavins and 1% salidroside or SHR-5, which seems to have at least that standardization; it seems wise to use rhodiola standardized for both rosavins and salidrosides).

http://www.chagatrade.ru/pdfdocs/RHODIOLA ROSEA.pdf

 

[johnnyp]

What are the dates on the studies you are mentioning? Because this 2012 article is a good summary Rhodiola rosea for physical and mental fatigue: a systematic review

 

[muscleupcrohn]

What are the dates on the studies you are mentioning? Because this 2012 article is a good summary Rhodiola rosea for physical and mental fatigue: a systematic review

I know that there's at least 1 study since 2012 (2013) in regards to rhodiola and exercise performance:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23443221

As for the PDF I referenced in the post above the most recent human study/trial referenced is 2002, but it seems that a lot of the studies/research mentioned is Russian/Soviet, and isn't referenced/cited very well (although even if it was, I'm not sure I'd be able to actually find anything on the exact methodology and statistics from the studies). There is a similar problem with Russian research on schisandra; there's a lot of it, but mostly only other papers/studies discussing/mentioning their results and briefly touching on the subjects and methodology, but it has to be taken with a grain of salt. With that said, that problem seems to be more significant with schisandra than rhodiola; while there isn't much accessible research/studies on schisandra in humans, there is already a substantial amount of research showing the effectiveness of rhodiola rosea, so the dosing and the effectiveness don't have to be predominantly based on brief references to Russian/Soviet research, although said research is another nice tool/reference.