What does natural bodybuilding mean to you?
- 12-21-2016, 08:49 AM
What does natural bodybuilding mean to you?
Everything is relative. After joining this forum I began realizing what a nebulous term "natural" is. There are many different perspectives for what makes a natural lifter. For example, I was offended one day when my lifting buddy said he was natural and I'm a "supplement guy" when someone asked us about our habits. I take glutamine and whey protien isolate, and I always thought of myself as natural. But I could see that in his eyes, that isn't natural, whole foods. He's quite the purist.
I've also noticed many folks here have their own standards. For example, I personally don't consider ephedrine natural, but noticed plenty of folks discussing it in the natural bodybuilding subforum.
So, is there and accepted and agreed upon definition of natural bodybuilding? If not, what does natural mean to you? Where do you draw the line?
For me, I am OK with protien, bcaas and vitamins. Too much past that I don't consider natural anymore, but who the f*ck am I?
What does natural mean to you?
- 12-21-2016, 09:15 AM
What they can't detect from testing.
It's a good question. Natural is what is permitted to compete in a natural BB competition.
I'm pretty sure you are safe and your buddy is a bit too pedantic.BLACK LION RESEARCH
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12-21-2016, 09:51 AM
Yeah he sounds like a natural purist just being difficult lol. In my opinion natural means that you have never used anything hormonal. I would even go as far as to say that if you've been off gear for an extended period of time (like maybe 3 or more years) I would probably still consider you natural. My thinking is that once you are off for that long, you will probably just return to your max genetic potential. Whereas cycling allows one to surpass the body's "natural" genetic limitations. Maybe this is a flawed view but oh well. I also consider ephedrine still natural. You could for sure achieve the same body fat levels without it, it just speeds up the fat loss rate in my opinion.
12-21-2016, 11:09 AM
A comment/question: You mention natural being where you are at your max genetic potential and that ephedrine doesn't take one past that.
How does one know they could have achieved the same results without ephedrine? Or myself without glutamine for that matter, in the eyes of my training buddy.
Or another example: there are plenty of folks who have used roids but not surpassed genetic potential due to not having put in the work over time, which is the main ingredient to any physique. How does one know their "natural" training potential if they haven't maxed it out before trying less natural methods?
Anyways, thanks again for the great response! I hope to hear more people share.
12-21-2016, 11:12 AM
12-21-2016, 11:53 AM
To answer your second question, it's very difficult to determine ones natural potential as genetics are obviously different for each individual. It takes a lot of guesswork and speculation and few people will ever be able to be 100% certain of what they can achieve naturally because most get frustrated with the slow progress of training natty and just hop on gear at some point. But just for kicks, take myself for example. I am 5'6" and currently weigh ~ 157lbs and am ~15% body fat. I naturally have a smaller frame and lightning fast metabolism, so I know that I will never be able to get to 200lbs lean. Now 170lbs lean is another story. I know my body, and I know how I respond to training, and if I had to take an educated guess, I would say that 170lbs at around 10% body fat would be very near my natural potential. Keep in mind though this is all jus speculation and to be taken with a grain of salt. Bottom line is, don't let any concerns about what your natural potential is drive you crazy because odds are you haven't achieved it. Just train hard and eat right and if at some point you want to use gear, that is a personal decision one has to make for themselves.
12-21-2016, 01:45 PM
Awesome question, and I appreciate the previous responses. Its definitely a hard question to answer, especially now with prohormones and natural anabolic products flooding the market. The term 'natural' is clear as mud.
My personal take on the term 'natural' include any products that are not exogenous hormones, or products that convert to hormones in the body (prohormones). In my opinion, even a product that is studied to increase natural testosterone production naturally is a natural product. If it isn't a steroid derivative that is converting to a hormone in the body, then I don't see it being unnatural.
With that being said, I would consider ephedrine a natural supplement, but that is a very trick example. Even clenbuterol, although its illegal, still doesn't flag as an unnatural product IMO. To each his own, but that's my personal stance on the matter.
12-21-2016, 07:11 PM
Agreed. Tough question. I actually kind of agree with @justhere4comm sarcastic answer at the beginning. If it's not on WADA's, NCAA's, etc's list, then it's good to go! Even that stance for me is somewhat pragmatic and driven by necessity rather than philosophy. Purely philosophically speaking, where can we actually draw the line in the modern world? We are all a lot taller and bigger than our ancient ancestors. Even our not so ancient ones. Why? Modern agriculture, immunizations, pharmacology, etc. all of which are not "natural". In my mind, humans are tool makers. The ultimate ones really. We are always looking to enhance performance whether it be new shoes, better training techniques or better molecules. That's what comes "natural" to us as a species. But alas, that is not the viewpoint of the world's various governing bodies. Therefore, if it's not on the list, it's "natural" ;-)
12-24-2016, 11:26 PM
ARA/ Evomuse Log.... Follow and laugh at my mediocre results http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/282586-evomuse-ara-log.html#post5403818
12-25-2016, 08:54 PM
not being on anything hormonal. not even trt. I used to be natural and I got big and strong naturally without any hormne. I started competing in a naty NGa organization and found out the competitors were using prohormones, etc anything that was over the counter and legal, alot more was legal in 2009, when I competed so i just switched to the NPC and used legal prohormones. Could I kept doing NGA? yes but I didnt really feel right about it since the rules were so ambiguous
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12-26-2016, 08:39 AM
Both me and my buddy believe that being as natural as possible can benefit a person greatly because we feel unnatural/synthetic things may interfere with the bodies ability to function the way it developed to function. So for example, supplementing melatonin regularly may signal your body that it doesn't need to make its own melatonin.
For myself it is also part of the fitness experiment experience. I want to see what my body is capable of. There are so many people claiming natty and observers can only guess the truth. We've all heard people claiming physiques as "unrealistic" that most could achieve with work and dedication. We also know there are people roided up claiming natty and full if **it. So how do you learn what works? By testing your own body over time, you get to know what you can achieve and every variable along the way. My buddy has blown up like a balloon. He gets told regularly he's on roids and we laugh cuz he's Mr. Purity.
At the end of the day, every body is unique. Being as natural as possible is the price I pay to see what I am truly capable of. I also don't judge people if they have a less natural lifestyle. I just want folks to be honest about what they do. If you are on roids, just don't claim natty. Or be honest about what natural is to you. If someone is on ephedrine and tells me they are cutting and lost x amount of weight in x amount of time, knowing they were on ephedrine allows me to note I may not achieve those results as quickly since I am not. If I don't know I might feel I'm doing something wrong with my cut and go crazy trying to figure out what's not right.
But I don't judge anyone on how they do this as long as they're honest. We are all our own experiment and that's what's the coolest part. But the less honest people are about their own experiment, the less I can learn from them.
12-26-2016, 08:49 AM
12-26-2016, 03:11 PM
It's tough today to be a clean natty guy. BTW I didn't say that's impossible but I'm sure that even the most dedicated guy will take something to enhance his body some time soon.
Natty to me means that you don't take anything that will enhance your natural performance(recovery,strenght endurance) drastically (hormonal or not)
01-01-2017, 11:53 PM
This is a great question/debate. I've heard many say natural bodybuilding requires not manipulating your hormones or taking banned substances. That's tricky, because you can manipulate your hormones with many currently legal substances. Also, what's legal today might be illegal tomorrow. For me, I hate to hear that "natural bodybuilders" are taking prohormones. I had this friend once back in school who claimed he was natty. "No steroids" he said. Yet he cycled M1T like every month because you could buy it legally back then. He went to from 220 to 260 in a year's time, was built like a brick ****house, but he was considered "natty" by many. So in my opinion, anything beyond the staple supps, you know the usual suspects that you'd read about on Bodybuilding.com, probably isn't natty. That's just my opinion tho.
04-08-2017, 10:18 PM
Natural is generally just off pharmaceutical grade products such as steroids/GH/SARMs etc.
"Natural" more broadly is just what self-righteous gym novices with 14 inch arms on youtube obsess about, meanwhile they're taking the supplement laundry list of creatine/whey/pre-workout crack blend/beta alanine/ etc. etc.
04-09-2017, 07:44 AM
04-09-2017, 09:14 AM
04-29-2017, 02:45 AM
Obviously level of assistance is going to play a part in determining how much effort you've had to put in on your own part.
09-04-2017, 07:17 AM
09-13-2017, 09:18 PM
To me, NOT using anything hormonal or that plays with any hormonal levels. Maybe not even using OTC Test boosters since they could have an effect, albeit maybe not very powerful.
09-13-2017, 09:45 PM
Training & everything else log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/275307-bam-bam-goes-30.html
09-13-2017, 09:47 PM
09-13-2017, 09:57 PM
09-13-2017, 10:09 PM
09-13-2017, 10:37 PM
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