Trt and E2 help

[saltlife717]

Hey guys I need some help. I started on trt about a year ago, I am currently on 240 mg of test cyp a week taking bi weekly injections. I am extremely E sensitive if my numbers get in the 40's my work flops with high E symptoms and can only get erection with cialis. I have been doing fine for the past six months or so.... Cut to a few weeks ago I went in for visit and refill my previous labs had shown high hemoglobin so I gave a unit. My test was 1390 and my E2 was 43 three days after I lost erection but could function with Cialis. Changed by dosage of Arimidex to .5 every other day for two days then back to .25 ( previously been taking .25 every three days) I must have blown past the sweet spot and went to low because a few days later I couldn't get an erection even with the cialis. I stopped the Arimidex all together a week ago last Friday, have had sex several times with the aid of that lil pill of course but I'm still not right! And never know if it's going to rise or not, the strange thing is in the mornings I'm good and the first part of the day I feel normal hangs like it suppose to feels as though I can summons it at will, how it's suppose to be but my mid afternoon I'm drawled up again and have that disconnected feeling down there !!! I am waiting on blood work now to find out exactly where my E 2 is now ... This is my first round with things going this far out of sorts thought maybe someone had some insight...

 

[napalm]

There's a reason you're having these issues: the dose you are currently on. Who are you seeing to get your prescriptions, PCP, endo or anti aging clinic? I have a feeling I already know the answer.

I can't think of any reason you need to be at ~1400. That right there is the cause of your e2, erection and hemoglobin issues.

Lower your dose, the other stuff will prolly take care of itself...

 

[saltlife717]

Anti aging clinic of sorts , that blood was drawn around two days after injection so it may not actually be that high but either way it is around 1100 I know for sure from previous labs. I lowered my injection on my last injection day to 200mg instead of the 240. I'm trying to find the right dosage to get around 700-750, that is where I felt the best. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[kisaj]

Your test dose is extremely high for TRT and yet another story on why clinics suck so bad. I take 60mg e3.5d and my levels are consistent in the 650-700 range on the day of injection, so I am riding in the 700-850 range most of the 3.5 days.

 

[saltlife717]

You have a point about the clinics, I began this with my doctor and it began with the gel... It's was horrible for me it actually dropped my numbers by almost a 100 in ninety days. He would not switch to injections and only wanted my test at 500 tops. I live in a rural area so I have to drive an hour and a half to get to an area that has more options ( clinics and there are several) my test has been at different ranges throughout this process and when I was at 755 and 20 E2 I felt the best I have in years maybe ever! However that lasted about three months my test went to 1050 and my E2 went to 42 and I started having the ed issues so I went on arimidex. Well the rest of it is in my previous post. I do however feel like I am on my own other than having access to the script and labs other than that I have to figure out where my spot is at. Thanks for the feedback, I know everyone is different what is good for one may not translate the same for another but it gives me some idea if where I may need to be injecting. I was started on 200 mg a week since I began with the clinic.

 

[saltlife717]

With 60mg every 3.5 d where is your E2? Are you on Ai?

 

[kisaj]

It's ok to be on your own to some degree as most of us that have been doing this a long time only rely on our docs for the scripts and labs now. We have all figured out our own protocol. You are going to feel better going lower on that dose and breaking it up.

 

[saltlife717]

I have to do an injection today I will drop it down again and follow that twice a week and follow up with labs in a few weeks to see where that puts me. Thanks again for the help.

 

[kisaj]

With 60mg every 3.5 d where is your E2? Are you on Ai?

e2 is in low-mid 20s. I use Formeron because it brings me into the low-mid teens, which makes me feel even better.

 

[napalm]

Start at 50 every 3.5 days, wait a couple weeks and get labs drawn. Adjust from there.

You shouldn't need an ai if you are doing it correctly. Don't chase numbers, learn how your body reacts and adjust accordingly...

 

[SweetLou321]

e2 is in low-mid 20s. I use Formeron because it brings me into the low-mid teens, which makes me feel even better.

How much formeron?

 

[kisaj]

2 pumps

 

[Driven2lift]

Another vote for Formeron, 2-4 pumps try 2 to start

http://www.orbitnutrition.com/cart/black-lion-research-formeron.html

 

[saltlife717]

I got some of the labs back today, E2 is high 45. Now that I am cutting my dosage of test by more than half what should I do about the E2? Arimidex .... Nolvadex.... Until I get stable at the lower dosage or nothing at all and just ride it out?

 

[kisaj]

One thing at a time so you know what is working. Drop the test levels and allow them to level out where you want them. Check e2 and then if you are not feeling good or numbers are not where you want them, consider an AI. Chances are that you will start to feel a lot better with the lower levels. 45 is high and I would feel like complete **** because once I get into the 30s I notice my mood sour and I feel lazy and fat, even if I am not actually lazy and fat.

At least that is how I would approach it.

 

[saltlife717]

That's exactly how I feel along with the ED!! Which makes it that much worse! Thanks for the help again..

 

[SweetLou321]

2 pumps

So I have noticed almost everyone except I think blr has stopped production on their form products. I see this works for you and have considered using it for my trt and.get blood work while on it. However what will you do if it gets banned? As I am sure you know with trt. Once you find something that works you don't want to change it lol.

 

[kisaj]

There will always be an AI option if needed. Until then, I continue to stock up on Formeron and have about 15 bottles in my stash.

 

[SweetLou321]

There will always be an AI option if needed. Until then, I continue to stock up on Formeron and have about 15 bottles in my stash.

Is there any reason you don't use arimistane, exemestane, or arimidex?

 

[kisaj]

Yeah, it crushes my e2 and I like Formeron. I don't think there is an AI that can touch it and I would only go the script route if necessary. My e2 is well within comfortable levels without anything, but it is nice to have the drying effect and extra boost from dropping 10 or so points.

 

[SweetLou321]

Yeah, it crushes my e2 and I like Formeron. I don't think there is an AI that can touch it and I would only go the script route if necessary. My e2 is well within comfortable levels without anything, but it is nice to have the drying effect and extra boost from dropping 10 or so points.

I had some issues going on when I tried it before and after I heated it up per bigts suggestion it seemed much better. I will give it another go. Any way you prefer to dose and how do you get 100 if 1 pump is 75mg?

 

[SweetLou321]

Yeah, it crushes my e2 and I like Formeron. I don't think there is an AI that can touch it and I would only go the script route if necessary. My e2 is well within comfortable levels without anything, but it is nice to have the drying effect and extra boost from dropping 10 or so points.

One last thing. Have you tried any other brand other then foremeron?

 

[kisaj]

I had some issues going on when I tried it before and after I heated it up per bigts suggestion it seemed much better. I will give it another go. Any way you prefer to dose and how do you get 100 if 1 pump is 75mg?

I don't get down to the exact mg because there is really no way to know exactly how much you are getting per pump. One pump might give you 10mg more or less. I just stick within the general parameters.

 

[Whacked]

KISAJ: Little help?

Wouldn't this indicate you still have some endo activity going on?

I never understood this concept....

If you are only taking 120 mg of T/week; how are your T levels ~ 700?

Thanks

Your test dose is extremely high for TRT and yet another story on why clinics suck so bad. I take 60mg e3.5d and my levels are consistent in the 650-700 range on the day of injection, so I am riding in the 700-850 range most of the 3.5 days.

 

[napalm]

^^^^ No, everyone reacts differently to any particular dose. I've seen 300 lb dudes get supraphysiological test levels from ~100mg/week and conversely, skinny 150 lb dudes get nowhere on 200/week. 50-60 mg twice a week puts me at ~800 peaks and ~500 troughs.

Everyone is different, the trick is to figure out the minimum dose that gets you to where you need to be. Took me a year to figure that out.

 

[kisaj]

KISAJ: Little help?

Wouldn't this indicate you still have some endo activity going on?

I never understood this concept....

If you are only taking 120 mg of T/week; how are your T levels ~ 700?

Thanks

I am not sure what you mean by endo activity. I know without any AI, my e2 levels are in the low-mid 20s, which is very comfortable and I have no sides from. With the Formeron, I drop about 10 points and that dries me up and I feel a little better. Do I need it, no. Do I like it, yes.

As far as test levels, it comes down to balance on TRT. You need to find the right test levels that you feel good at and to get all the benefits that it offers you. I happen to like to be in the 650-800 range because that is my sweet spot. It took me over a year to figure that out. But like Napalm said, everyone is different and some need more, some less. My body processes a smaller injection pretty well, so 60mg keeps me where I need to be.

I hope that answers what you were asking. If not, please let me know and I will try to say it differently.

 

[saltlife717]

KISAJ and Napalm just wanted to post an update I finished my third injection yesterday at 60 mg hard to tell if I'm feeling better mostly because Ive been on night shift and I always feel drained on those, however my e2 is getting in check because the ed has went away and my drive is coming back. By the way I finally got my testosterone results back Monday and they were 2006???? They were 1398 before I gave blood, the only thing I can figure is that with less blood and same high dose caused a spike.... So that being the case it's no wonder my world got turned upside down fast! Hemocrit was 53.2 and hemoglobin was 17.8. I guess I'll wait till I test again in a few weeks to see if these values drop, if not I'll give another unit. Thanks

 

[kisaj]

Something was wrong with the test, that number is way off the charts. Good to hear that the lowering is helping out, especially in the ED department. That can be the most detrimental mentally.

I am going to recommend looking into naringin. I take it and it keeps my hemo levels in range. It can interfere with some medications, so read up on it, but it is great if you can take it. In about a week or two I started feeling lighter and cleaner. Hard to explain, but you can tell that it is helping circulation.

 

[saltlife717]

I thought the same thing! I can't see how that could be that high but either way I know it was to high and were I need to be so in a few weeks hopefully I'll have a better handle on it.

 

[Beau]

Something was wrong with the test, that number is way off the charts. Good to hear that the lowering is helping out, especially in the ED department. That can be the most detrimental mentally.

I am going to recommend looking into naringin. I take it and it keeps my hemo levels in range. It can interfere with some medications, so read up on it, but it is great if you can take it. In about a week or two I started feeling lighter and cleaner. Hard to explain, but you can tell that it is helping circulation.

Add me to the list of naringin advocates.

As for hemo, I would suggest Baby Aspirin (blood thinning capability but does not actually lower Hemo), and adequate hydration.

That part, drinking water, is important.

As a guideline, try to consume water in the following amount daily (just water): Body weight in lbs * 0.65 = ounces of water.

A 200 lb guy would drink 130 ounces.

 

[grappler22]

One thing at a time so you know what is working. Drop the test levels and allow them to level out where you want them. Check e2 and then if you are not feeling good or numbers are not where you want them, consider an AI. Chances are that you will start to feel a lot better with the lower levels. 45 is high and I would feel like complete **** because once I get into the 30s I notice my mood sour and I feel lazy and fat, even if I am not actually lazy and fat.

At least that is how I would approach it.

Great advice... try one thing at a time that way u know what works.

 

[grappler22]

^^^^ No, everyone reacts differently to any particular dose. I've seen 300 lb dudes get supraphysiological test levels from ~100mg/week and conversely, skinny 150 lb dudes get nowhere on 200/week. 50-60 mg twice a week puts me at ~800 peaks and ~500 troughs.

Everyone is different, the trick is to figure out the minimum dose that gets you to where you need to be. Took me a year to figure that out.

Very, very true. Its a great thing once you figure out what works and what doesnt

 

[jdam]

Another vote for Formeron, 2-4 pumps try 2 to start


2-4 pumps a day? Or twice a day? I am starting formastanzol and it says to use twice daily (minimum 3 pumps each time). Just wondering if 3 pumps twice a day is too much. Thanks

 

[Driven2lift]

The BLR section has a few good threads on Formeron with q&a and lots of talk from experience.

Going above 4 is heading towards anabolic effects and not what you want. For E2 control 2-4 should be sufficient, split into 2 applications.

Brundel is the company owner and very helpful guy who could probably give you suggested dosing for your current E2 levels if you wanted to post there or PM him.

 

[jdam]

The BLR section has a few good threads on Formeron with q&a and lots of talk from experience.

Going above 4 is heading towards anabolic effects and not what you want. For E2 control 2-4 should be sufficient, split into 2 applications.

Brundel is the company owner and very helpful guy who could probably give you suggested dosing for your current E2 levels if you wanted to post there or PM him.

Thanks for the reply-I'll check that thread out.

 

[kisaj]

Another vote for Formeron, 2-4 pumps try 2 to start


2-4 pumps a day? Or twice a day? I am starting formastanzol and it says to use twice daily (minimum 3 pumps each time). Just wondering if 3 pumps twice a day is too much. Thanks

I use two eod on TRT. I think 6 pumps would be overkill as there are guys running high levels on test using 4 with good results.

 

[saltlife717]

Kisaj and napalm,
Hey guys another update I went had blood drawn again Monday. E2 has went down to 38 still not optimal but better than the 46 that is was, however my testosterone is showing 1320, hemocrit and hemoglobin have gone up 18.4 and 54.7. Has been a month since I dropped my dose down to 60 mg biweekly. I am wondering what to do from here I was expecting to see 7-800. This was drawn on shot day also.... Any suggestions on whether it may take longer for my numbers to drop to match the dosage??? What about the E2 think it will continue to drop or should I introduce and A.I.??

 

[kisaj]

Man, you need to see what is happening with those tests. You have run a 2006, 1398, and now a 1320? There is seriously something amiss here. I spike at 1500 at 200mg a week right after a shot.

Based on these total test numbers, I would be reluctant to trust the e2 numbers too.

Are you positive you are using 60mg?

 

[saltlife717]

The 1398 was from my trt clinic lab. That was at 220 mg weekly. The 2005 was from the clinic my work sends labs to that was at 200 mg weekly about a week after giving a unit of blood... Still not sure that is or was a player in that high number I thought it was a bad test. I dropped to 60 by weekly after getting help from you guys a month ago. This weeks numbers are from my work as well or what ever lab they use.. We have dr and rn on site. I'm sure on the dosage test 200 drawing to the third mark on the syringe

 

[saltlife717]

Maybe I need to make the drive back to trt clinic and have them pull and see what their lab says? Like I said I was really suprised by those numbers I thought they would be lower.

 

[saltlife717]

I've heard that if you send blood to five different labs you will get five different results maybe that's true... There is no way the 60 biweekly is giving me that high of a number that's where my numbers run at 200 plus.

 

[kisaj]

Yeah buddy, I would do a little checking. Those numbers are off the charts by the 2 labs I've used and to have that on the day of injection means that 60mg is putting your test levels at around 1500+ after injection. That would be crazy. Also, it doesn't seem to make sense that your hemo went up, unless you were dehydrated.