ESTROGEN AND FLUID RETENTION IS IT COMMON ?

[miniarnold]

​

I gather excess fluid retention (external) can be caused by to much estrogen in the body, is this generally mostly caused by increasing test levels through again otc supplements or drugs/steroids or being on trt

And is it quite common for men to have naturally elevated estrogen 24/7 causing a high aromatise conversion even without taking anything to boost test levels ?

is elevated estrogen only possible with higher T levels, or could to much estrogen be possible with normal or even low T, by again a high aromatise conversion ?

Suspect i MAY have always carried some excess fluid retention regardless if im heavy or light possibly, caused by a higher aromatise conversion i dont know


Thoughts ?
Thnx

 

[The Matrix]

I gather excess fluid retention (external) can be caused by to much estrogen in the body, is this generally mostly caused by increasing test levels through again otc supplements or drugs/steroids or being on trt

And is it quite common for men to have naturally elevated estrogen 24/7 causing a high aromatise conversion even without taking anything to boost test levels ?

is elevated estrogen only possible with higher T levels, or could to much estrogen be possible with normal or even low T, by again a high aromatise conversion ?

Suspect i MAY have always carried some excess fluid retention regardless if im heavy or light possibly, caused by a higher aromatise conversion i dont know


Thoughts ?
Thnx

GET TESTED and do not play guessing games. Your body may be having higher levels of T which is is just getting used to.

 

[jonko]

I carry a little extra fluid, moreso on TRT. I mean, my ankles aren't swollen, but if I eat a salty meal, like I did yesterday I will feel like my shoes are a little tighter the next morning, or puffy under my eyes. My E2 last check was 65 and normal is under 45. Would a mild elevation like 65 cause water retention?

 

[ohiostate2827]

Yes

 

[jonko]

How do you know this? I mean, 65 is not much of an elevation

 

[warsteiner]

I don't know about 'much of an elevation'. If the normal level is under 45 and your level is 65 then this is 45% above the normal level so you should expect estrogen side effects such as water retention.

 

[The Matrix]

I don't know about 'much of an elevation'. If the normal level is under 45 and your level is 65 then this is 45% above the normal level so you should expect estrogen side effects such as water retention.

as high 25-30 can cause issue with people provided the proper SHBG levels is available.
So yes to answer your question.

 

[miniarnold]

GET TESTED and do not play guessing games. Your body may be having higher levels of T which is is just getting used to.

No comment on the 1st two queries then

 

[The Matrix]

No comment on the 1st two queries then

Yes miniar I am in the process of testing out a hypothesis which was brought up in a recent meeting of Dr's I stumped then all. When I start explaining my research of the Females Dr popped gave me bit and pieces I further home went and research it and there might be a possible solution for high SHBG which can be clinically proven. Now i need to find it works. Sorry I will report about my findings here because if specific person sees it then they will take credit for it.

 

[miniarnold]

Your either being very sarcastic which is not needed
or not and you have just totally lost me
no worrys.

 

[EasyEJL]

I gather excess fluid retention (external) can be caused by to much estrogen in the body, is this generally mostly caused by increasing test levels through again otc supplements or drugs/steroids or being on trt

doesn't require anything above natural levels.

And is it quite common for men to have naturally elevated estrogen 24/7 causing a high aromatise conversion even without taking anything to boost test levels ?

backwards here. High estrogen is cauesd by higher aromatase levels not the reverse

is elevated estrogen only possible with higher T levels, or could to much estrogen be possible with normal or even low T, by again a high aromatise conversion ?

definitely possible, I was right around top of scale on e2 with below bottom of scale on total testosterone.

Suspect i MAY have always carried some excess fluid retention regardless if im heavy or light possibly, caused by a higher aromatise conversion i dont know


Thoughts ?
Thnx

why guess? If you think your levels are off, get tested. Puffiness + water retention have other causes as well too, and plenty of people think they are leaner than they are so maybe it wasn't retained water.

 

[The Matrix]

Your either being very sarcastic which is not needed
or not and you have just totally lost me
no worrys.

minarnold did't you have High SHBG at only time?

 

[jonko]

as high 25-30 can cause issue with people provided the proper SHBG levels is available.
So yes to answer your question.

Matrix I know you talk a lot about the liver, what is your opinion regarding meds like A-Dex and fatty liver? I was reading somewhere that Tamoxifen and the like caused fatty liver. I am assuming in women, since it probably wasn't studied in men.
this is why I'm reluctant to take A-Dex; for fear that it may damage my liver

 

[miniarnold]

doesn't require anything above natural levels..

Thanks for your answers Easy,
guess i was tryng to establish if estrogen can be to high naturally and possibly causing fluid retention even if one does or hasnt used ph steroids or tboosters (just a natural high conversion to e)
and you answered it

 

[miniarnold]

minarnold did't you have High SHBG at only time?

Yes it was pretty high, does high shbg affect estrogen negativly thus causing fluid retention?
can lower than normal levels of T also cause fluid retention think i read this somewhere?
Thnx

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks for your answers Easy,
guess i was tryng to establish if estrogen can be to high naturally and possibly causing fluid retention even if one does or hasnt used ph steroids or tboosters (just a natural high conversion to e)
and you answered it

Generally it is mostly that way with obesity but there are other things that could cause it

 

[miniarnold]

does high shbg affect estrogen negativly thus causing fluid retention, higher estrogen higher shbg i believe ?
can lower than normal levels of T and low T also cause fluid retention i recall reading this somewhere?

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix I know you talk a lot about the liver, what is your opinion regarding meds like A-Dex and fatty liver? I was reading somewhere that Tamoxifen and the like caused fatty liver. I am assuming in women, since it probably wasn't studied in men.
this is why I'm reluctant to take A-Dex; for fear that it may damage my liver

Reason why this happen is not because of the drug, but driving the e2 too low will reduce ones ability to burn fat since some estrogen helps in lipolyisis and decrease insulin sensitivity. Understanding the interaction of hormones is crucial when dealing with these issues because every thing effects other hormonal pathways and receptor sensitivity. It all about proper bioindividuality and BALANCE !! If one is scare then have an ultra sound done then have your DR monitor liver function via blood. Fatty liver I am finding is brought upon major dysbiosis as well as impact in the livers abiity to burn and process fats. This is probably due to the rise in SHBg due to its impact in NASH. I am getting closer and closer for explaination of this anomaly. in 90% of people with SHBG I have found to have major dysbiosis or candida which lends to the idea of back to increase of endogenous waste which is over burden the liver. I bet you Dr mouton would agree with me on this.

 

[jonko]

Reason why this happen is not because of the drug, but driving the e2 too low will reduce ones ability to burn fat since some estrogen helps in lipolyisis and decrease insulin sensitivity. Understanding the interaction of hormones is crucial when dealing with these issues because every thing effects other hormonal pathways and receptor sensitivity. It all about proper bioindividuality and BALANCE !! If one is scare then have an ultra sound done then have your DR monitor liver function via blood. Fatty liver I am finding is brought upon major dysbiosis as well as impact in the livers abiity to burn and process fats. This is probably due to the rise in SHBg due to its impact in NASH. I am getting closer and closer for explaination of this anomaly. in 90% of people with SHBG I have found to have major dysbiosis or candida which lends to the idea of back to increase of endogenous waste which is over burden the liver. I bet you Dr mouton would agree with me on this.

Very interesting thoughts.
I have had numerous ultrasounds over the years, last one about 16 months ago, showed mild fatty liver. A few years ago when I like to have a few drinks at night I had moderate fatty liver with hepatomegaly. Hhat cleared up when I stopped drinking. Had plenty of blood work, most recent one 3 weeks ago, checked liver, prothrombin time, Platelets, ferritin study etc, all normal.
But I am very cautious with anything that could aggravate the liver.
Last blood test my E2 was 63 and Total T 950
I have the A-dex but still haven't taken it.
I am getting re-tested next week and if the E2 is still high I will start a low dose.
Im on the pellets, so its almost 3 months and I'm due for a new round. I can feel my T levels receding now so I'm assuming my E2 should be a little lower.
I had one doctor tell me he doesn't treat with A-dex unless E2 is over 75

If I do start the A-Dex it will be 1/4 pill every 4 days and see how that goes. I know its minimal when compared to people taking 1 pill every day! so hopefully there will be no negative effect on the liver. But perhaps the high E2 is worse for the liver

 

[miniarnold]

does high shbg affect estrogen negativly thus causing fluid retention, higher estrogen higher shbg i believe ?
can lower than normal levels of T and low T also cause fluid retention i recall reading this somewhere?

bump

 

[kingdong]

T

Your either being very sarcastic which is not needed
or not and you have just totally lost me
no worrys.

This dude is a real doctor with real advice. Trust me hes the man!

 

[jonko]

Matrix regarding "dysbiosis"
What do you think about products like Align?
I have been taking this at the suggestion of my gastro doc and I feel better in more ways then bowel movements.

Funny you mention candida, I have a lot of dandruff and dermatitis

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix regarding "dysbiosis"
What do you think about products like Align?
I have been taking this at the suggestion of my gastro doc and I feel better in more ways then bowel movements.

Funny you mention candida, I have a lot of dandruff and dermatitis

In the cases I deal with does not scratch the surface..If it works for you great !!
Now I am dealing with heart wrenching cases of autistic children which make dealing with hormones issue look like a walk in the park..

 

[jonko]

Is there a particular probiotic your would recommend?

 

[The Matrix]

Is there a particular probiotic your would recommend?

Depends on the case I am working with. Different ones for different cases which if not used properly can cause major issues. I would not recommend going over 20 billion (multi strain 8-16 organism) per day with out knowing what you are doing. If a person has an immune imbalance which goes against the norm or if a person has weaken adrenals then giving a person more then 20-30 billion per day can end up causing major health complications. I had it happen to me and it was not pretty.

 

[miniarnold]

does high shbg affect estrogen negativly thus causing fluid retention, higher estrogen higher shbg i believe ?
can lower than normal levels of T and low T also cause fluid retention i recall reading this somewhere?

Bump bump

 

[miniarnold]

Matrix regarding iodine supplements/sea kelp for thyroid support and functioning,
are they safe and how much can be taken daily at a maximum in a supplement form?

Cant seem to find out the max daily dose and if its actually safe to take iodine/sea kelp
Thnx

 

[The Matrix]

T

This dude is a real doctor with real advice. Trust me hes the man!

No.i'm just a guy who give drs something to.think.about it when they do.not no where to turn. I am just a researcher who.assists drs into.making better choices for their.patient. The real suggestions come from years of.dealing with bs of incompetence of what is not taught to.medical professions.. I am.just a valuable resource tool.who deals with clinical cases along with the drs. We work as a team. I.have been through 90% of same issues so.know.the.pitfalls.and short cuts to getting people well.

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix regarding iodine supplements/sea kelp for thyroid support and functioning,
are they safe and how much can be taken daily at a maximum in a supplement form?

Cant seem to find out the max daily dose and if its actually safe to take iodine/sea kelp
Thnx

kelp is loaded in possible heavy.metals.
One needs to.know if there is a clinical deficiency first through proper testing.
One.needs to know if.hashimotos is.present.or.heavy metals and.other toxic halogens.

Men 6.25 to 50 mgs per day is used

NO but majority.of.cases.with.high shbg can.be traced back.to.gi or.liver issues.

 

[miniarnold]

kelp is loaded in possible heavy.metals.
One needs to.know if there is a clinical deficiency first through proper testing.
One.needs to know if.hashimotos is.present.or.heavy metals and.other toxic halogens.

Men 6.25 to 50 mgs per day is used
QUOTE]

50 mgs being the maximum?
May give it a go, whats best a pure iodine supplement or sea kelp?

Cheers

 

[The Matrix]

kelp is loaded in possible heavy.metals.
One needs to.know if there is a clinical deficiency first through proper testing.
One.needs to know if.hashimotos is.present.or.heavy metals and.other toxic halogens.

Men 6.25 to 50 mgs per day is used
QUOTE]

50 mgs being the maximum?
May give it a go, whats best a pure iodine supplement or sea kelp?

Cheers

I error on side of caution and suggest people 12.5 mgs which is deemed safe for long term use if there are not other factors present. Knowing the whole person history is crucial

 

[miniarnold]

I error on side of caution and suggest people 12.5 mgs which is deemed safe for long term use if there are not other factors present. Knowing the whole person history is crucial

What is that equivelent to in mcg as most supps state the amount in mcg?
And is pure iodine better or sea kelp, i assume they are both different forms?

Thank you

 

[The Matrix]

What is that equivelent to in mcg as most supps state the amount in mcg?
And is pure iodine better or sea kelp, i assume they are both different forms?

Thank you

50,000 mcgs = 50 mgs

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

How has the Align made you feel better besides bowel movements?

 

[miniarnold]

NO but majority.of.cases.with.high shbg can.be traced back.to.gi or.liver issues.

What question was this in reply to?

 

[miniarnold]

50,000 mcgs = 50 mgs

Thanks, so kelp and iodine are the same thing in supplement form, and either is ok to use at that dose?

 

[miniarnold]

How has the Align made you feel better besides bowel movements?

What is this, a strong probiotic/ digestive aid?

 

[The Matrix]

What is this, a strong probiotic/ digestive aid?

Works in some not in others. Actually very weak..

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

I like UDO'S Choice

 

[The Matrix]

I like UDO'S Choice

It goes rancid in a few weeks turning into.a poison. Wrong combo for fats

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

what brand do you recommend then?

 

[The Matrix]

what brand do you recommend then?

Depends on the case and organisms I am trying to balances, as well as pre existing condition plays a huge part in the selelction
For average person <20-30 billion per day 8-16 strains should be fine.

 

[fanzdslpwr1]

wow my UDO'S brand has 6 strains. I guess I should find a different brand. which brand is good for candida?

 

[miniarnold]

50,000 mcgs = 50 mgs

Thanks, so kelp and iodine are the same thing in supplement form, and either is ok to use at that dose?

bump ?

 

[miniarnold]

I like UDO'S Choice

as in a efa source or a probiotic?

 

[The Matrix]

50,000 mcgs = 50 mgs



bump ?

What at what dosage be specific?

 

[miniarnold]

kelp and iodine are both the same thing in supplement form ?
and they are both safe at a maximum amount of 12.5mgs daily for long term use?

Thnks

 

[The Matrix]

kelp and iodine are both the same thing in supplement form ?
and they are both safe at a maximum amount of 12.5mgs daily for long term use?

Thnks

12.5 mgs kelp you are risking heavy metal toxicty amount other things.
Again long term studies are not published, but japanese people have been consuming it for centuries with no issues with lowest rate of cancers. I always suggest people when on 12.5 mgs for 3-4 months check their TSH and thyroid to be safe..

 

[EasyEJL]

kelp and iodine are both the same thing in supplement form ?

no, kelp is natural, and as the matrix has said may have issues with contamination. on the other hand straight iodine through something like iodoral
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Iodoral.htm

wouldn't have the same issue.

 

[miniarnold]

up to 1000mcg of either pure iodine or sea kelp daily or more, is ok ?

just looking for a maximum amount thats safe for daily use with pure iodine and amount for sea kelp?

Cheers.