Is there a good way to lower DHT?

[nycjimi]

I have low test but high DHT. Adding test skyrockets my DHT and hair loss and acne ensue.

So what to do?

 

[punxweb]

How are you taking your test? Transdermal or shot? For some, transdermals will increase DHT. For those that it happens to typically switch to shots.

 

[nycjimi]

Test injection. Twice a week. 25 mg per shot.

Serum test is 450 on a range of 305-800
Serum DHT is 105 on a range of 25- 75

 

[punxweb]

Thats a pretty low dose of test to see a large increase of DHT. I know some on this forum suggest having DHT slightly above the reference range. I do not know how far above though. I have heard that saw palmetto helps lower DHT but I have no experience with it. What was your DHT before starting HRT?

 

[nycjimi]

My pre HRT numbers were:
Test 290 350-800
DHT 70 35-75

 

[punxweb]

Could look into finasteride and dutasteride if the DHT gets out of hand. Wouldn't be my first choice. I am sure some others on here will pipe in soon. You were in the upper range when starting HRT and the small amount you did brought you out of range. Thats strange man. Hope others with more experince with this will chime in.

 

[Philec48]

Beware using those drugs! Want to shut down your libido? Permanently? It has happened to some men. Punxweb, glad it's not your first choice. Shouldn't even be 100th choice.

Listen, DHT of 105 in a range of 25-75 is not lethal. It should be NOTHING to worry about unless there are side effects.

If that side effect is difficulty peeing due to swelling of the prostate, then for crying out loud take nettle root and saw palmetto together. This is just as effective as dutasteride according to some studies, and without the effect of killing libido.

Let the doctors push these drugs, not us!

 

[corsaking]

get a psa check before embarking on anything

 

[punxweb]

Believe me phil, I was not saying these drugs were the best option. I was only stating that he had options.

 

[WORKOUT COACH]

I have low test but high DHT. Adding test skyrockets my DHT and hair loss and acne ensue.

So what to do?

Endocr Regul. 2010 Jan;44(1):3-8.

Changes of metabolic profile in men treated for androgenetic alopecia with 1 mg finasteride.
Duskova M, Hill M, Starka L.

Objective. Androgenetic alopecia is recognized as a risk factor for cardiovascular diseases, glucose metabolism disorders, and benign prostate hyperplasia and/or carcinoma. Finasteride, used for treatment of androgenetic alopecia at a dose of 1mg/day, is an effective inhibitor of type II 5alpha-reductase, the enzyme responsible for the reduction of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. Recent studies reported that dihydrotestosterone, among other activities, might play some role in visceral fat metabolism. It thus seemed reasonable to examine whether finasteride treatment of androgenetic alopecia ameliorates some features of metabolic syndrome frequently seen associated with this condition. <br />Methods. We examined 12 men with premature balding (defined as frontoparietal and vertex hair loss before age 30 with alopecia defined as grade 3 vertex or more on the Norwood-modified Hamilton alopecia classification). Hormonal levels and metabolic parameters were determined and insulin tolerance tests performed for all individuals. Finasteride (1 mg/day) was administrated for 12 months. The hormonal profile and lipid spectrum were monitored after 4, 8 and 12 months of treatment and insulin tolerance tests were repeated after 12 months of the treatment. <br />Results. After treatment with finasteride the expected changes in the steroid spectrum were seen, namely a decrease in dihydrotestosterone and increase in testosterone, androstenedione and free testosterone index. We observed an initial increase in total cholesterol and HDL- and LDL-cholesterol, which stabilized with prolonged treatment. We founded a significant decrease in glycated hemoglobin HbA1c and insulin resistance measured using rate constant for plasma glucose disappearance (kITT) showed only a borderline decrease.<br />Conclusions. Finasteride is an efficient 5alpha-reductase inhibitor even at low doses of 1mg/day. In men treated with this dose for 12 months, we observed mild differences in metabolic profile with slight amelioration of glucose metabolism regulation. Keywords: Finasteride - Androgenetic alopecia - Androgens - Lipids - Insulin sensitivity - Metabolic disorders.

 

[liquid]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/148598-myodrol-new-test.html

It is a new test booster made by Axis Labs.
I have read a study where it shows the ingredients increase test serum, and lowers dht.

 

[celc5]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/148598-myodrol-new-test.html

It is a new test booster made by Axis Labs.
I have read a study where it shows the ingredients increase test serum, and lowers dht.

Thanks for posting the link :cheers:

I personally wouldn't expect any negative response to myodrol in this particular scenario. At the same time, we don't have any reports that say it will help yet either. Theoretically, good idea. More to come once it's in the hands of the people :head:

Just another side note: OP, what is your response to formestane? It's absolutely proven to reduce DHT. I wish I had personal bloodwork to support my theory, but I suspect that it control DHT at low doses such as 20mg TD 2-3x/day. Just something to consider.

 

[Knowbull]

The sterides really are bad. A guy might want to consider an expensive regimen of; Resveratrol, RLA/RDHLA/Tocotrienol combination, L-Carnitine, Zinc and Beta-sitosterol. Ive never used Formestane, but reviews are good. JMO

 

[liquid]

Thanks for posting the link :cheers:

I personally wouldn't expect any negative response to myodrol in this particular scenario. At the same time, we don't have any reports that say it will help yet either. Theoretically, good idea. More to come once it's in the hands of the people :head:

Just another side note: OP, what is your response to formestane? It's absolutely proven to reduce DHT. I wish I had personal bloodwork to support my theory, but I suspect that it control DHT at low doses such as 20mg TD 2-3x/day. Just something to consider.

My mistake, I should mention that the study that was conduct was not Myodrol. But a different supplement but contains similar ingredients.

 

[spinn]

Did I misunderstand this policy http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/79224-posting-referral-source.html

 

[celc5]

My mistake, I should mention that the study that was conduct was not Myodrol. But a different supplement but contains similar ingredients.

You're post was appropriate in terms of DHT control and it was the same ingredients as far as I could tell :cheers:

I was more referring to the HRT scenario. It's tough for me to suggest results when we really haven't had much feedback yet. If, in the near future, we end up with feedback from someone on HRT who reports decreased DHT-esque symptoms, THEN we'll be recommending it for this scenario.

Did I misunderstand this policy http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/79224-posting-referral-source.html

Spin,
as far as I can tell the study posted by Workout Coach was appropriate. So was the link posted by poison (it links back to another AM thread).

Unless you had a post deleted that I missed, I do think you're misunderstanding the policy :dunno:

 

[WORKOUT COACH]

You're post was appropriate in terms of DHT control and it was the same ingredients as far as I could tell :cheers:

I was more referring to the HRT scenario. It's tough for me to suggest results when we really haven't had much feedback yet. If, in the near future, we end up with feedback from someone on HRT who reports decreased DHT-esque symptoms, THEN we'll be recommending it for this scenario.



Spin,
as far as I can tell the study posted by Workout Coach was appropriate. So was the link posted by poison (it links back to another AM thread).

Unless you had a post deleted that I missed, I do think you're misunderstanding the policy :dunno:

Did I do anything wrong? I only posted a study from medline that was relavent to the question. I apologize if I did.

 

[corsaking]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/148598-myodrol-new-test.html

It is a new test booster made by Axis Labs.
I have read a study where it shows the ingredients increase test serum, and lowers dht.

the main ingredient is SAW PALMETTO=save your money and buy from a health food shop at a lower price. it needs to be standardised and the ideal dosage is 320 mg per day -taken once or 2 x 160mg

 

[celc5]

the main ingredient is SAW PALMETTO=save your money and buy from a health food shop at a lower price. it needs to be standardised and the ideal dosage is 320 mg per day -taken once or 2 x 160mg

Well, let's not judge it till we try it. An argument could be made that our Hemodraulix product is 'JUST' a pump product. But once people try it, they usually drop the "just another pump product" stigma and buy another bottle.

Also, my impression is that the main ingredient does not appear to be saw palmetto. It looks to be the astaxanthin.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, you've made your statements as if they are concrete facts.

 

[spinn]

the main ingredient is SAW PALMETTO=save your money and buy from a health food shop at a lower price. it needs to be standardised and the ideal dosage is 320 mg per day -taken once or 2 x 160mg

Are you sure it isnt SAW DUST?

 

[smllsux]

lol

 

[corsaking]

Well, let's not judge it till we try it. An argument could be made that our Hemodraulix product is 'JUST' a pump product. But once people try it, they usually drop the "just another pump product" stigma and buy another bottle.

Also, my impression is that the main ingredient does not appear to be saw palmetto. It looks to be the astaxanthin.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, you've made your statements as if they are concrete facts.

If that is the case and i beg to differ -the reasons ill explain later, youre basing the claim that the supplement boosts test on a powerful antioxidant which i find bizarre.
Why i dont think its the main ingredient , unless your labelling laws are different, the main ingredient has to be listed firsthere in the UK;in this case saw palmetto.
THE dosage i quoted was found to be ideal for BPH
B. Sources of the Standardized Extract
The standardized extract of saw palmetto is two capsules daily of 160 mg (or one capsule of 320 mg) containing 85-95% sterols and lipids. The non-standardized extract can be any amount of sterols and lipids—invariably a lot less. Basically the non-standardized extract is almost always the raw powder of saw palmetto. That's why there is usually a lot more of it than in the standardized extract—in order to try to make up for its weak concentration.

In a nutshell the difference is this: with a standardized extract you know what you are getting, very much like you do with pharmaceutical drugs. With the non-standardized extract you don't. If you use a raw saw palmetto product instead of an extract, you will need to compensate for its reduced potency by taking larger dosages, but there is no easy way to figure out exactly how much of the raw product is equivalent to the extract.

On the basis of my research to date I think that the best recommendation is to take one 320 mg daily of a standardized saw palmetto extract containing from 85% to 95% fatty acids and sterols SOURCED FROM;-
http://www.mendosa.com/sawpalm.htm

DHT has a role to play and contributes to muscle building-reducing it may be counter productive DHT is 3 times more potent than testosterone,
DHT is also an anti estrogen
sourced from "http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm
DHT is one of those good guy / bad guy hormones that is sorely misunderstood. For many people, it is NOT something that you want to reduce or eliminate in the body. For some others though, keeping DHT levels under control is probably a prudent course of action. Knowing the facts about DHT will help you decide just which group you belong to.

Anti – Estrogen effects of DHT

One important function of DHT in the body that does not get much discussion is its antagonism of estrogen. Some men that take Proscar learn this the hard way – by developing a case of gynecomastia. By reducing DHT’s protection against estrogen in the body, these men have fallen victim to its most dreaded ramification – bitch tits!

How does DHT protect against estrogen? There are at least three ways that this likely occurs. First of all, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues. It either does this by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding.

Second of all, DHT and its metabolites have been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme. The studies done in breast tissue showed that DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. 5alpha-androstandione was shown to be the most potent, while androsterone was the least.

Lastly, DHT acts on the hypothalamus / pituitary to decrease the secretion of gonadotropins. By decreasing the secretion of gonadotropins you decrease the production of the raw materials for estrogen production – testosterone and androstenedione (DHT itself cannot aromatize into estrogens).


Frankly i get annoyed with supplement companies who bring out a new product, dress it up by giving the ingredients their latin names which implies it looks good and raises interest and makes claims which have yet to be proven
Dont they give us credit for having any intelligence!

 

[Knowbull]

Not all supplements provide the same benefits to everyone. The ones that work for a majority, on a consistent basis, are the ones that sell. This is marketing, and free enterprise. Most people know that there is hype involved with supplements. Either a supplement works for you or it doesnt. Advertising and hype is part of the package. Without those factors there would be no progress in supplementation and the Science of it. This is Democracy, capitalism and Scientific advance rolled into one. I read all the hype in the context of; will it work for me? Based on my own research and experience. The hype is part of this.

 

[corsaking]

Not all supplements provide the same benefits to everyone. The ones that work for a majority, on a consistent basis, are the ones that sell. This is marketing, and free enterprise. Most people know that there is hype involved with supplements. Either a supplement works for you or it doesnt. Advertising and hype is part of the package. Without those factors there would be no progress in supplementation and the Science of it. This is Democracy, capitalism and Scientific advance rolled into one. I read all the hype in the context of; will it work for me? Based on my own research and experience. The hype is part of this.

no disrespect to you but i see you are an older member of the community and have enough experience under your belt to see through the package but there are those in their late teens and twenties who wont be so "world -wise" and its unfortunate that supplement companies play on this.

 

[spinn]

I just am becoming concerned with the direction of this board, it is such a valuable resource. I understand marketing but only being able to provide links to approved drs and supps is a concern to me. Sure I can usually find them but not everyone can.

Has anyone else noticed that Jansz hasnt posted in 11 days? Or Matrix in about a month?

 

[celc5]

Carsoking,
I do understand DHT's role in the body and your previous post is valid. It's quite possible that Myodrol is not the supplement of choice for those who do not have DHT related issues when test is increased. Feel free to not try it if it doesn't sound like a supplement that would be beneficial for you.

At the same time, I'm sure you understand how post #18 could be interpreted as a dig to the product without context or support.

Finally, labeling order is dictated by "how much" of the total content is made up by that particular ingredient. It has nothing do with potency or priority of function.

 

[corsaking]

Carsoking,
I do understand DHT's role in the body and your previous post is valid. It's quite possible that Myodrol is not the supplement of choice for those who do not have DHT related issues when test is increased. Feel free to not try it if it doesn't sound like a supplement that would be beneficial for you.

At the same time, I'm sure you understand how post #18 could be interpreted as a dig to the product without context or support.

Finally, labeling order is dictated by "how much" of the total content is made up by that particular ingredient. It has nothing do with potency or priority of function.

thats what i said "Why i dont think its the main ingredient , unless your labelling laws are different, the main ingredient has to be listed firsthere in the UK;in this case saw palmetto -doesnt how much equal main?

if you think post 18 is a dig to the product im surprised .All i havedone is pointed out the more common name to this herb rather than the latin ive also made readers aware that this isnt anything new , saw palmetto has been around for ages and so has the anti oxidant.Consequently they can be found in a health food store and saw palmetto in a standardised version , i would assume at a cheaper price than Axis labs will sell their product for.

i think unless you have the evidence to say otherwise, that you should declare that this is not a test booster but a supplement to promote prostate health by the possible reduction of dht with the use of saw palmetto and a free radical scavanger using the powerful antioxidant Astaxanthin which protects the cells against free radicals;helps maintain healthy joints by favourably influencing the condition of cartilage. And it helps support balanced energy levels and healthy immune function
i notice also it is a proprietary blend so unless the full ingredients have not been declared of which something not listed ,may influence a rise in test , then i stick by what i say.

 

[celc5]

thats what i said "Why i dont think its the main ingredient , unless your labelling laws are different, the main ingredient has to be listed firsthere in the UK;in this case saw palmetto -doesnt how much equal main?

Let's use an obvious example that is unrelated to this product to demonstrate the labeling procedure: Let's say you would have a prop blend of 20mg of SD and 50mg of Halo. The profile might look something like this:

Anabolic Matrix 70mg
-halodrol
-superdrol

The potent ingredient is SD, not the halo even though it's listed first (because it makes up more content in the prop blend).

The same is true in every single sleep aide that contains melatonin. Even at DOULBE dose, melatonin would be the last thing listed in a sleep aide prop blend almost every time even though it's the "main" or most potent ingredient.

Let's put this topic to rest as we clearly don't see eye to eye and have deviated from the initial purpose of the thread :cheers:

 

[thebigt]

My pre HRT numbers were:
Test 290 350-800
DHT 70 35-75

what does your psa number look like?

 

[thebigt]

thats what i said "Why i dont think its the main ingredient , unless your labelling laws are different, the main ingredient has to be listed firsthere in the UK;in this case saw palmetto -doesnt how much equal main?

if you think post 18 is a dig to the product im surprised .All i havedone is pointed out the more common name to this herb rather than the latin ive also made readers aware that this isnt anything new , saw palmetto has been around for ages and so has the anti oxidant.Consequently they can be found in a health food store and saw palmetto in a standardised version , i would assume at a cheaper price than Axis labs will sell their product for.

i think unless you have the evidence to say otherwise, that you should declare that this is not a test booster but a supplement to promote prostate health by the possible reduction of dht with the use of saw palmetto and a free radical scavanger using the powerful antioxidant Astaxanthin which protects the cells against free radicals;helps maintain healthy joints by favourably influencing the condition of cartilage. And it helps support balanced energy levels and healthy immune function
i notice also it is a proprietary blend so unless the full ingredients have not been declared of which something not listed ,may influence a rise in test , then i stick by what i say.

one thing to consider is the extract. i think everyone knows there is a big difference between fenugreek and testofen/nettle root and divaniil/hgw and icariin/geranium root and 1,3 dime.............the myotesterone has a patent, so i would suspect it has something to do with the extraction process-either the extraction it's self or the part used.

 

[nycjimi]

PSA 0.5