Do you stand for the National Anthem?
- 09-07-2018, 05:43 PM
- 09-07-2018, 05:53 PM
...just like you can't dismiss the fact that NFL owners know they can't just fire NFL players for kneeling, albeit having the ability to do, regardless of them protesting while on the clock, because the owners themselves don't fill the stadium seats...
09-07-2018, 05:58 PM
And you keep talking about military, but you're ignoring the one in this very thread. Everything you say makes me believe that you have no true pride in standing and are just parroting and going through the motions.
We all hear your point and took the time to read and understand your post. Apparently, you were expecting everybody here to be a robot too and be like **** those who won't stand. You want citizens of this nation to be forced to stand and mindlessly sing a song. That is what you're asking to be done. That doesn't sound like America to me.
09-07-2018, 05:59 PM
Owners are not not firing players for kneeling because they donít have the legal grounds to, but, as you said, because it probably wouldnít be a good economic decision, as you donít want to go THAT far to alienate any significant portion of your customer base.
Are you even keeping up with the discussion? Weíre not even sure if what Trump said actually violates the letter of the law or just the spirit of it.
That is why I asked if you will admit that, had Trump not given his inappropriate two cents, would the owners have a right to prohibit political protests/speech at work? If you say no, I say that you need to reread the First Amendment. If you say yes, then we can move on, accepting that premise, and attempt to determine if what Trump did violates the letter of the law or just the spirit.
One step at a time.
09-07-2018, 06:03 PM
...have you served in either the military or Law Enforcement, or have been directly involved with the loss of a First Responder?
Because I can claim both, while understanding that protesting during the raising of a flag and the singing of a song in order to bring attention to a very real issue on a national level, on a national stage, defines the very right that all of those lives lost represent...and in the same breath, recognize that not everyone will agree.
09-07-2018, 06:09 PM
Do you stand for the National Anthem?
Trump may have gone and ****ed it up for the owners by getting involved, but employees have no right to freedom of speech at work on a federal level. That is my sole point.
09-07-2018, 06:14 PM
I simply stated, our day to day jobs can't compare to the NFL...if I got fired for protesting on the clock, my employer would simply fill my spot...it doesn't work like that in the NFL...not sure how you don't understand this.
my freedom of speech referenced his disapproval of protests of any kind during the Anthem...I never claimed legality of anything, until after you misinterpreted my post, claiming I stated First Amendment rights were being violated, which I never did, simply stated 45s influence in the matter...re read my original post.
09-07-2018, 06:17 PM
If youíre not claiming that NFL players have a First Amendment right to political speech at work, then I have no real qualms or disagreements with you.
If I misunderstood something before, I apologize. No hard feelings.
09-07-2018, 06:19 PM
09-07-2018, 06:23 PM
If I work at CVS, I canít tell everyone who buys condoms that premarital sex is a sin and expect to keep my job haha. Itís an extreme example, sure, but it illustrates that free speech is no unlimited, and really, on a federal level, pertains only to penalty from the government, not private individuals/companies. As you said, state laws may change things though, and Trump getting involved was stupid and may muddy the legal waters.
09-07-2018, 06:28 PM
09-07-2018, 06:29 PM
09-07-2018, 06:39 PM
I mean if you really hate your balls, go for it. But, what did they do to you?
09-07-2018, 07:47 PM
09-07-2018, 09:23 PM
People destroying Nike gear are full blown retards. You've already given them your money, they couldn't care less whether you actually wear it anymore. You'll just go buy more when you get over your tantrum.
I also didn't realize people stood for the national anthem at home. That is very peculiar to me. Lol
I stand for the most part, but rarely put my hand over my heart, and if I'm tired I stay seated. I don't need to stand attention to prove to anyone that I love America or the troops. Kneel, stand, sit down, whatever. I don't see kneeling as disrespectful at all, they have an opinion and they can do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone around them.
As far as the whole NFL thing goes, you have to follow rules at work whether you want to or not. If you want to protest it, don't be on the field. It literally will make no difference either way.
I went to a baseball game the other day and was mindblown when people stood and put their hands over their hearts for God Bless America, and I got strange looks for saying I wasn't going to do that. Since when is that a thing? Lol we are living in bizzaro world now.
09-07-2018, 09:39 PM
I absolutely stand to the flag during the Anthem....it is my home, my country and that flag belongs to me in any image I want the flag to be. You dont have to love your government to love your home, and when people are in your home you at least want the same common respect as you would in their home.
As far as Gaypernick, that dude worked for a private company and when you hurt the product you hurt other peoples livelihoods...not just NFL players but all the way down to the people making a living taking care of the stadium. Gaypernick has the right to kneel, and I support that right but the owners of the NFL should have every right to bury his azz if he is hurting their business while the employee is on the clock.
This message was paid for by the Russians
09-07-2018, 09:48 PM
This message was paid for by the Russians
09-07-2018, 09:55 PM
If people actually had half a brain, they would be donating their Nike gear to the homeless and poor veterans that they love oh so much, instead of destroying it.
09-07-2018, 10:01 PM
I do get what Kaepernick (spelling?) protested about, and he brings up some legitimate points that should be addressed and we should attempt to remedy, but he's just not exactly the best face for social justice IMO. Does no one remember the Castro shirt he wore IN MIAMI, where so many people, of multiple generations, fled Cuba and Castro's dictatorship and cruelty? It was just beyond tone-deaf, and also really undermined his whole message. He wont' stand for the US anthem because of corrupt/racist police officers, but he'll wear a shirt with Castro on it? Castro, who is irrefutably worse and more corrupt than the US is today.
From Florida Reporter George Diaz, whose family fled Cuba under Castro:
There is no question that racial inequality needs to be a topic of conversation in the United States. But that gets us back to Cuba, where such conversations can get you in prison.
My family left there in 1961. We left our home, our furniture, most of valuables and our relatives behind because we were seeking freedom. It wasn’t for money, nor the opportunity to visit Disney and Universal.
We wanted to be free, and the United States, bless its soul, gave us that opportunity.
So yes, I find it personally insulting that Kaepernick is oblivious to the fact that Castro is one of the most vile dictators of modern times with extensive human rights violations.
09-07-2018, 10:03 PM
So yeah I think anyone who was not distracted by Trump "misdirection play" here knows this was a valid use of 1A and peaceful protesting. And I'm a life long conservative, before Trump ever came
09-07-2018, 10:08 PM
09-07-2018, 10:15 PM
Yes, that's so much better than what anyone in the US does, right? He undermined his entire platform when he praised and defended Castro.During his nearly five decades of rule in Cuba, Fidel Castro built a repressive system that punished virtually all forms of dissent, a dark legacy that lives on even after his death...
Many of the abusive tactics developed during his time in power – including surveillance, beatings, arbitrary detention, and public acts of repudiation – are still used by the Cuban government...
The denial of fundamental freedoms throughout Castro’s decades in power was unrelenting, and marked by periods of heightened repression, such as the 2003 crackdown on 75 human rights defenders, journalists, trade unionists, and other critics of the government. Accused of being “mercenaries” of the United States government, the individuals were summarily tried in closed hearings. Many served years in inhumane prisons, where they were subjected to extended solitary confinement and beatings, and denied basic medical care for serious ailments...
Under Fidel Castro, the Cuban government refused to recognize the legitimacy of Cuban human rights organizations, alternative political parties, independent labor unions, or a free press. He also denied international monitors such as the International Committee of the Red Cross and international nongovernmental organizations like Human Rights Watch access to the island to investigate human rights conditions.
09-07-2018, 10:29 PM
I probably won't go out of my way to buy Nike either, but that is just because I don't care to spend that much money for clothes. Lol
09-07-2018, 10:31 PM
And i know federal employees, having been one twice... Have volunteered to limit their free speech for period of time. Your point there? Most vets who fight for free speech would support this type of protest, or prayer?
Hit a nerve, I see.. it's crazy to see so many people misinterpret a peaceful protest.
How about a picture of Tim Tebow... Since when was kneeling a disprectful thing?
((Hint when he became black and saying something political))
09-07-2018, 10:32 PM
That whole Castro deal just really soured me to Kaepernick, as Castro was far worse than any USPD, and he actually defended him IN MIAMI TO CUBANS. Itís just really inconsistent with his message of equality, justice, and anti-corruption.
Also, I think that the NFL players who are convicted domestic abusers should be the ones people hate more than people who protest. Beating a woman is way more un-American than kneeling for the anthem. But not many people are upset about the many domestic abusers still playing.
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