Self Improvement Books

rascal14

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Can anyone recommend some of these? I’ve been in a slump of slight depression, low motivation, drinking more than I’d like when I go out. I figured reading is one of the only things I haven’t tried yet.

I just started Mind Hacking by Sir John Hargrave, not sure if it’s a good one but it sounded interesting and I was able to download it for free. Lol

I’m not religious so I’d prefer no books directly based on that. I don’t care if the author is as long as it isn’t biased towards a religion.
 
Cgkone

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By ice burg slim.

Job
Old testemant

Look up documentary or info regarding inmates in California who have indeterminate segregated housing.
Some of those guys have been in solitary confinement for over a decade.
You put a man in environment where its kill or be killed.
And then you put him in a smaller cage when he acts like an animal.
Those guys are being force fed because they refuse to eat.
They are white as ghosts and skinny like a greyhound.

I'm sure you be got it better than those guys youngster.
 
jameschoi

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Don't stay home, get in the gym and get shredded or lift heavy books?
 
rascal14

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I’m not sure either of you understand what I’m saying.
 
Aleksandar37

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The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F@#% by Mark Manson is a good one and I really do not like self help books or believe most of them actually help. Tim Ferriss has a couple alright ones, so check out his website and podcast if you don't feel like checking out his books.

Both of these authors base most of their ideas on Stoicism and I can recommend further reading on that if you're interested, although warning that most of it is going to be fairly dense philosophy and not self help. The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday though is a good way to start though as it gives a short quote from a Stoic philosopher with an explanation on how you can implement that quote each day.
 
muscleupcrohn

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The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F@#% by Mark Manson is a good one and I really do not like self help books or believe most of them actually help. Tim Ferriss has a couple alright ones, so check out his website and podcast if you don't feel like checking out his books.

Both of these authors base most of their ideas on Stoicism and I can recommend further reading on that if you're interested, although warning that most of it is going to be fairly dense philosophy and not self help. The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday though is a good way to start though as it gives a short quote from a Stoic philosopher with an explanation on how you can implement that quote each day.
I was going to mention Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations and Epictetus’ Discourses and Handbook.

I’d say that they’re some of the best self help books out there. One thing I like about the Stoics is that they’re very practical, and I find they don’t spend much time on dense/abstract/hypothetical/theoretical philosophy, but a lot on practical ways to be able to be happy and equal regardless of your circumstances, not because of them.

I’d also say that the Dhammapada (sayings of the Buddha) and the Tao Te Ching are also pretty short reads packed full of value, but they have more of a learning curve to really get a lot out of them.

The Bhagavad Gita is also great, but it isn’t short, and having an annotated/explained version makes a world of difference. I like Eknath Easwaran’s Bhagavad Gita for Daily Reading.

I do really like that The Stoics are pretty easy to understand and apply without any real background into theology, and that it can be applied to a variety of theologies or lack thereof. For example, early Christians loved the Stoics, and many atheists love them today. It’s just so practical and direct; it’s a rare logical philosophy really.

Edit: I’ve also found that none of the books I’ve mentioned really push a religion on anyone at all. Hell, I’ve heard people argue the Stoics were polytheistic, monotheistic, and atheist, so they’re definitely not pushing anything. Easwaran talks about all sorts of religions in his commentary on the Gita, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity. Taoism (Tao Te Ching) in its original form isn’t really even a religion IMO, and the Dhammapada (Buddhism) is never forceful in insisting you believe anything; the Buddha himself said not to believe anything just because he said it, but that we should test it for ourselves.

I think I’d recommend starting with the Stoics though.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I’d recommend this edition of Epictetus’ works first. I bought a fancier hardcover after, but this one is great and affordable.

I’d start with the Handbook, which is short. Like the title suggests, it’s a small handbook for the basics of Stoicism that you can refer back to.

From there I’d read Discourses, which is his much longer teachings and lessons on various aspects of Stoic philosophy, as if you were his student.

Then you can finish with Fragments, which are more short pieces he wrote.
 
rascal14

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The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F@#% by Mark Manson is a good one and I really do not like self help books or believe most of them actually help. Tim Ferriss has a couple alright ones, so check out his website and podcast if you don't feel like checking out his books.

Both of these authors base most of their ideas on Stoicism and I can recommend further reading on that if you're interested, although warning that most of it is going to be fairly dense philosophy and not self help. The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday though is a good way to start though as it gives a short quote from a Stoic philosopher with an explanation on how you can implement that quote each day.
Podcasts are even better, actually. I'll check those out, I remember hearing about Mark Manson's book before.
 
rascal14

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I’d recommend this edition of Epictetus’ works first. I bought a fancier hardcover after, but this one is great and affordable.

I’d start with the Handbook, which is short. Like the title suggests, it’s a small handbook for the basics of Stoicism that you can refer back to.

From there I’d read Discourses, which is his much longer teachings and lessons on various aspects of Stoic philosophy, as if you were his student.

Then you can finish with Fragments, which are more short pieces he wrote.
Thank you for all that, I remember hearing some about The Stoics in some courses I took a couple years ago. I definitely do not mind learning of other religions, I enjoy it. I think religion has a lot of good things everyone should know and practice.

I just know some of the books my buddy reads push Christianity super hard and that would just annoy me more than anything to read. I grew up Southern Baptist for the majority of my life so I am familiar with that pretty well.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Thank you for all that, I remember hearing some about The Stoics in some courses I took a couple years ago. I definitely do not mind learning of other religions, I enjoy it. I think religion has a lot of good things everyone should know and practice, but I know some of the books my buddy reads push Christianity super hard and that would just annoy me more than anything to read. Pray the gay away type of things you hear in Southern Baptist churches.. lol
Trust me, I’ve seen enough “accept Jesus or burn in Hell. Whatever else you believe is wrong and I have to tell that to you because I love you” stuff to not want anything to do with it either. That said, I’ve read some good “Christian” books, but none of them were pushing anything. For example, the Good Heart is a book based on the dialogues between the Dalai Lama and Laurence Freeman, a Catholic priest and Benedictine monk. They’re likely stronger in their beliefs than just about anyone, but they are still able to respect each other’s views and have meaningful conversation and learn from each other instead of attacking each other or trying to convert each other.
 
Aleksandar37

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Thank you for all that, I remember hearing some about The Stoics in some courses I took a couple years ago. I definitely do not mind learning of other religions, I enjoy it. I think religion has a lot of good things everyone should know and practice.

I just know some of the books my buddy reads push Christianity super hard and that would just annoy me more than anything to read. I grew up Southern Baptist for the majority of my life so I am familiar with that pretty well.
Just to clarify, Stoicism is not a religion. Many books have drawn parallels between Stoicism and various religions, but it's not a religion itself.
 
rascal14

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Just to clarify, Stoicism is not a religion. Many books have drawn parallels between Stoicism and various religions, but it's not a religion itself.
Oh okay. I didn’t remember learning of it as a religion, but I didn’t know for sure that it wasn’t.

I got the audio book for The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F*** for now, I may pick up a hard copy though. I’ve never listened to an audiobook so I’ll have to see how I like it. I will have to order Epictetus works’, the store didn’t have it in stock.
 
puccah8808

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Stay focus.
 
puccah8808

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This is by a professor I follow on LinkedIn.

IMG_0578.jpg
 
muscleupcrohn

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Just to clarify, Stoicism is not a religion. Many books have drawn parallels between Stoicism and various religions, but it's not a religion itself.
Yep. It’s quite interesting actually; many early Christians loved the Stoics and said Stoicism was compatible with Christianity, but later Christians changed their mind and criticized the Stoics, and now Stoicism is popular with all sorts of people who may or may not have strong theological beliefs, and is a popular source for self-help books to draw from.

It’s nice to see the Stoics getting some love lol.
 
Zombocalypse

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Can anyone recommend some of these? I’ve been in a slump of slight depression, low motivation, drinking more than I’d like when I go out. I figured reading is one of the only things I haven’t tried yet.

I just started Mind Hacking by Sir John Hargrave, not sure if it’s a good one but it sounded interesting and I was able to download it for free. Lol

I’m not religious so I’d prefer no books directly based on that. I don’t care if the author is as long as it isn’t biased towards a religion.


Send me a PM and I'll tell you the books that shaped much of my life.

Honestly, I don't know if they count as self-improvement in a strict sense, but I guarantee you that they will contain the USEFUL kind of wisdom instead of the overly positive bull**** being espoused by a lot of idiots. They will teach you about a realistic way of living a life full of successes.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Send me a PM and I'll tell you the books that shaped much of my life.

Honestly, I don't know if they count as self-improvement in a strict sense, but I guarantee you that they will contain the USEFUL kind of wisdom instead of the overly positive bull**** being espoused by a lot of idiots. They will teach you about a realistic way of living a life full of successes.
Are these books so secret that you can’t mention them so we can all think about looking into them?
 
Zombocalypse

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Yep. It’s quite interesting actually; many early Christians loved the Stoics and said Stoicism was compatible with Christianity, but later Christians changed their mind and criticized the Stoics, and now Stoicism is popular with all sorts of people who may or may not have strong theological beliefs, and is a popular source for self-help books to draw from.

It’s nice to see the Stoics getting some love lol.
By any chance, have you read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius?

I read a few pages of it, not enough to decide whether it's worth the money or not.
 
muscleupcrohn

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By any chance, have you read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius?

I read a few pages of it, not enough to decide whether it's worth the money or not.
I have two copies of it haha. I really enjoyed it. It was likely never meant to be published, so it’s different than most books, but I find it is very direct and genuine. It doesn’t pull an punches, and some people say it can be a bit pessimistic at times, but I found it very motivating and full of logical wisdom that I try to apply in my life. Lots of emphasis on how we can learn not to depend on others or external circumstances for happiness, and how we should focus on what is on our control in life.

That and Epictetus are great. Epictetus’ works are written more like a teacher to a student, so the two together give a great course in Stoicism from the OGs.
 
muscleupcrohn

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For less than $4 on Amazon Prime, I’d say it’s worth it. I bought this one, read it, then bought a hardcover edition.

It’s also available to read online for free, but there’s something nice about a physical book for this sort of thing IMO.
IMG_8670.jpg
 
Zombocalypse

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Are these books so secret that you can’t mention them so we can all think about looking into them?
You know what? Screw it. I'll just flat out say what they are. lol...

For starters, the best book by the author is The 48 Laws of Power, followed by The 50th Law. Honestly, I'd prioritize his other book, The 33 Strategies of War over The 50th Law but it's a personal bias. The 33 Strategies of War is a personal favorite of mine.

He also wrote The Art of Seduction and Mastery, but I didn't like them as much. Stick to the ones above.

The author's name is Robert Greene. Here's an interview of him by Barry Kibrick.

Edit: Can't post link... Just look it up on youtube. I recommend watching the one where Kibrick interviewed him about The 48 Laws...
 
Zombocalypse

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I have two copies of it haha. I really enjoyed it. It was likely never meant to be published, so it’s different than most books, but I find it is very direct and genuine. It doesn’t pull an punches, and some people say it can be a bit pessimistic at times, but I found it very motivating and full of logical wisdom that I try to apply in my life. Lots of emphasis on how we can learn not to depend on others or external circumstances for happiness, and how we should focus on what is on our control in life.

That and Epictetus are great. Epictetus’ works are written more like a teacher to a student, so the two together give a great course in Stoicism from the OGs.
Thank you very much. :)
 
muscleupcrohn

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You know what? Screw it. I'll just flat out say what they are. lol...

For starters, the best book by the author is The 48 Laws of Power, followed by The 50th Law. Honestly, I'd prioritize his other book, The 33 Strategies of War over The 50th Law but it's a personal bias. The 33 Strategies of War is a personal favorite of mine.

He also wrote The Art of Seduction and Mastery, but I didn't like them as much. Stick to the ones above.

The author's name is Robert Greene. Here's an interview of him by Barry Kibrick.

Edit: Can't post link... Just look it up on youtube. I recommend watching the one where Kibrick interviewed him about The 48 Laws...
Thanks. Interesting. Would the 33 Strategies of War happen to draw from the Art of War? I really enjoyed the latter, but have never heard of the former. I may have to check it out.
 
Zombocalypse

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Thanks. Interesting. Would the 33 Strategies of War happen to draw from the Art of War? I really enjoyed the latter, but have never heard of the former. I may have to check it out.
I like The 33 Strategies of War more than I like The 48 Laws of Power. But I will admit that The 48 Laws of Power may very well be his best book.

The 33 Strategies of War draws wisdom from Sun Tzu, yes. But it also draws from Carl Von Clausewitz, Napoleon Bonaparte, and even the ****ing Bible. No joke. He quoted Job 7:1, which says The life of man upon earth is a warfare. Pretty cool stuff.

Here's a quote that Robert Greene quoted from Sun Tzu, including it in the book... I have it memorized and I request that you give me a few rep points for posting it here. lol. You don't have to if you don't want to. Here's the quote...

He whom the ancients called an expert in battle gained victory where victory was easily gained. Thus, the battle of the expert is never an exceptional victory, nor does it win him reputation for wisdom or credit for courage. His victories in battle are unerring. Unerring means that he acts where victory is certain and conquers an enemy that has already lost.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 4th century BC.
 

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I like The 33 Strategies of War more than I like The 48 Laws of Power. But I will admit that The 48 Laws of Power may very well be his best book.

The 33 Strategies of War draws wisdom from Sun Tzu, yes. But it also draws from Carl Von Clausewitz, Napoleon Bonaparte, and even the ****ing Bible. No joke. He quoted Job 7:1, which says The life of man upon earth is a warfare. Pretty cool stuff.

Here's a quote that Robert Greene quoted from Sun Tzu, including it in the book... I have it memorized and I request that you give me a few rep points for posting it here. lol. You don't have to if you don't want to. Here's the quote...

He whom the ancients called an expert in battle gained victory where victory was easily gained. Thus, the battle of the expert is never an exceptional victory, nor does it win him reputation for wisdom or credit for courage. His victories in battle are unerring. Unerring means that he acts where victory is certain and conquers an enemy that has already lost.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 4th century BC.
Sounds like floyd mayweather read that too.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I like The 33 Strategies of War more than I like The 48 Laws of Power. But I will admit that The 48 Laws of Power may very well be his best book.

The 33 Strategies of War draws wisdom from Sun Tzu, yes. But it also draws from Carl Von Clausewitz, Napoleon Bonaparte, and even the ****ing Bible. No joke. He quoted Job 7:1, which says The life of man upon earth is a warfare. Pretty cool stuff.

Here's a quote that Robert Greene quoted from Sun Tzu, including it in the book... I have it memorized and I request that you give me a few rep points for posting it here. lol. You don't have to if you don't want to. Here's the quote...

He whom the ancients called an expert in battle gained victory where victory was easily gained. Thus, the battle of the expert is never an exceptional victory, nor does it win him reputation for wisdom or credit for courage. His victories in battle are unerring. Unerring means that he acts where victory is certain and conquers an enemy that has already lost.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 4th century BC.
Repped since you asked, and because it's a solid post haha

I'll check them out. I enjoy reading a wide variety of books, so I'm interested in books to pull together multiple beliefs/philosophies/etc in a way that makes sense (some books do it amazingly well, and some are clearly trying to shove a round peg in a square hole). I'll try to take a picture of some of the books I have. As Ron Burgundy once said, "I have many leather-bound books," but I don't have an apartment that smells of rich mahogany.

Edit: some books;
IMG_9531.jpgIMG_9532.jpgIMG_9533.jpg
 
Zombocalypse

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Repped since you asked, and because it's a solid post haha

I'll check them out. I enjoy reading a wide variety of books, so I'm interested in books to pull together multiple beliefs/philosophies/etc in a way that makes sense (some books do it amazingly well, and some are clearly trying to shove a round peg in a square hole). I'll try to take a picture of some of the books I have. As Ron Burgundy once said, "I have many leather-bound books," but I don't have an apartment that smells of rich mahogany.

Edit: some books;
View attachment 160995View attachment 160996View attachment 160997
Dude, you have a book called Jesus Calling? So you're a Christian?? Me as well! I'm glad to meet a fellow Christian like myself, even if it's just online.

A lot of atheists in this world are missing out. LOL
 
muscleupcrohn

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Dude, you have a book called Jesus Calling? So you're a Christian?? Me as well! I'm glad to meet a fellow Christian like myself, even if it's just online.

A lot of atheists in this world are missing out. LOL
Did you also see my two copies of the Bible, the Nag Hammadi scriptures, and Yogananda’s commentary on the Gospel?

I don’t think I’m your traditional Christian though, as I can’t say I think that being a Christian is the only way to get to heaven or salvation or whatever you want to call it. One of the best analogies I’ve heard comes from the Vietnamese Buddhist monk who also talks about Jesus, Thich Nhat Hanh, who said something that I remember as “the raft is not the shore.” That too often we confuse the raft, or the tool, with the shore we are trying to reach, or the goal. In the case of theology, a religion is the raft we use to try to reach the shore, or heaven/salvation/nirvana/etc. To me, it seems better to acknowledge but respect the different rafts we may be riding on the sea of life on, but is it not better to travel together to the same goal than it is to try to sink each other’s rafts because they look a little different than ours?

There are plenty of Christians that are better Buddhists or Hindus than many Buddhists or Hindus, and many Buddhists or Hindus that are better Christians than Christians. Gandhi talked about this a lot.

When you distill it down to the most essential and core beliefs and goals, many things really aren’t all that different. I can get into a lot more detail, but I’ve already typed a lot haha. Regardless of what you believe in, having some belief is good, I agree. Whether it’s Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., they all have real value and help give us insight into God IMO. For example, many goals of Buddhism, Christianity, and Hinduism are all very similar, with similar goals of freeing ourselves from worldly temptations, returning to our original nature, putting others first, etc. Even Plato, the Stoics, etc have a lot of similar beliefs and goals, just different explanations and means for achieving them.

Have you heard the parable of the blind men and the elephant?
 
Bintherduntht

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Not really self improvement as it is motivational/inspirational

"If life is a game these are the rules"

Good book
 
Zombocalypse

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Did you also see my two copies of the Bible, the Nag Hammadi scriptures, and Yogananda’s commentary on the Gospel?

I don’t think I’m your traditional Christian though, as I can’t say I think that being a Christian is the only way to get to heaven or salvation or whatever you want to call it. One of the best analogies I’ve heard comes from the Vietnamese Buddhist monk who also talks about Jesus, Thich Nhat Hanh, who said something that I remember as “the raft is not the shore.” That too often we confuse the raft, or the tool, with the shore we are trying to reach, or the goal. In the case of theology, a religion is the raft we use to try to reach the shore, or heaven/salvation/nirvana/etc. To me, it seems better to acknowledge but respect the different rafts we may be riding on the sea of life on, but is it not better to travel together to the same goal than it is to try to sink each other’s rafts because they look a little different than ours?

There are plenty of Christians that are better Buddhists or Hindus than many Buddhists or Hindus, and many Buddhists or Hindus that are better Christians than Christians. Gandhi talked about this a lot.

When you distill it down to the most essential and core beliefs and goals, many things really aren’t all that different. I can get into a lot more detail, but I’ve already typed a lot haha. Regardless of what you believe in, having some belief is good, I agree. Whether it’s Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., they all have real value and help give us insight into God IMO. For example, many goals of Buddhism, Christianity, and Hinduism are all very similar, with similar goals of freeing ourselves from worldly temptations, returning to our original nature, putting others first, etc. Even Plato, the Stoics, etc have a lot of similar beliefs and goals, just different explanations and means for achieving them.

Have you heard the parable of the blind men and the elephant?


I believe otherwise, to be honest with you... I guess you can say that I am too traditional, and you'd be correct. I believe in the literal 6-day creation of the world. I'm not the kind of liberal Christian who accepts old-earth creationism as truth.

I believe, very genuinely, that Jesus is the only way to salvation. I've dabbled in Buddhism before and I didn't like it.

Do you happen to know about Ravi Zacharias? I believe him when he said that religions are "fundamentally different and AT BEST superficially similar."

But as much as I am a devoted Christian, I don't go to church, which is something I'm ashamed of a little bit. But it's no big deal for me. After all, God is with us ALL even if we don't go to church. It's probably better if we go to church, but it's not as important as what a lot of people make it out to be. We are all sinners and Christianity has a sort of egalitarianism in accusing virtually EVERYONE of being unworthy. Thankfully, because Jesus paid the price for our sins, we can all be saved.

Interesting note... A part of the reason why Gandhi succeeded was because he appealed to a Christianized demographic.

Anyway, I've never heard of that elephant parable. Please enlighten me.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I believe otherwise, to be honest with you... I guess you can say that I am too traditional, and you'd be correct. I believe in the literal 6-day creation of the world. I'm not the kind of liberal Christian who accepts old-earth creationism as truth.
I respect your belief, but even many Christian scholars believe that some parts of the Bible are not intended taken literally. Also, what would you say if Genesis never actually said that the Serpent was Satan? Not saying it wasn’t meant to represent him, just that many things aren’t quite as cut and dry as you’d believe or are told.

I believe, very genuinely, that Jesus is the only way to salvation. I've dabbled in Buddhism before and I didn't like it.
Different strokes for different folks. Some Buddhism is very abstract and difficult to follow, some isn’t. I approached Buddhism through the lens of Christianity, and learned a lot about both, and now I can honestly see how/why I do think Buddhism can genuinely work for some people and lead to the same “shore” or goal as Christianity. Just my opinion, and none of us, not you nor I, can know for sure.

Do you happen to know about Ravi Zacharias? I believe him when he said that religions are "fundamentally different and AT BEST superficially similar."
I never said that they are the same, only that the GOAL can be the same. Even the Dali Lama says you can’t be a Buddhist and a Christian, but we can certainly apply lessons and ideas from one, and we don’t have to inherently say that everything else is wrong. The belief systems and practices can differ wildly but have the same end goal, even if they think it’s not the same goal. As I asked before, have you heard of the parable of the elephant and the blind men?

But as much as I am a devoted Christian, I don't go to church, which is something I'm ashamed of a little bit. But it's no big deal for me. After all, God is with us ALL even if we don't go to church. It's probably better if we go to church, but it's not as important as what a lot of people make it out to be. We are all sinners and Christianity has a sort of egalitarianism in accusing virtually EVERYONE of being unworthy. Thankfully, because Jesus paid the price for our sins, we can all be saved.
Random fact, did you know that Hindus have a term called “twice born,” which is a spiritual birth that is necessary to reach salvation and be free from the cycle of birth and death. Pretty interesting stuff. Also, like Christians, Hindus believe that man was created good, but was tempted and corrupted by the worldly things, and that we should strive to free ourselves from these things if we want salvation and to return to our true nature we were created in. Plato actually had a VERY similar belief too.

Interesting note... A part of the reason why Gandhi succeeded was because he appealed to a Christianized demographic.
Gandhi himself said he didn’t feel a need to be a Christian because he though being a good Hindu meant being a good Christian. If anything, he would likely agree more with the “the raft is not the shore” belief I mentioned earlier.

Anyway, I've never heard of that elephant parable. Please enlighten me.
Response in post above (bold).

Adding the elephant parable soon.

Anyway, I respect your views and beliefs. I don’t know if I’m right, but I can’t know, so the Stoic thing to do is not to worry about it, and just base my views and actions on what I believe, while staying open to new evidence or ideas that may come my way. As Epictetus said, paraphrased, we think that being strong in our convictions is always a good thing, but this is only true when our beliefs are based on solid reasoning and facts. Sticking to a belief once we know it to be wrong may be strength, but it is the strength of a madman, not a healthy man, and should not be praised or encouraged. Not saying you’re doing this at all, just that I try to keep an open mind and try to base my views on what I best think is the truth, not what sounds nicest to me or what I’ve believed for the longest.

If my mind is made up and NOTHING, no amount of evidence or definitive proof could change it, then I’m not really interested in knowing the truth, and I’m not sure what methods God plans to use to help show me the truth, as I don’t know the whole truth now, so I try not to shut myself off from anything that doesn’t perfectly align with my current beliefs. If I did that, I’d never learn anything new, and I wouldn’t grow.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Parable of the elephant and the blind men (long):

Long ago six old men lived in a village in India. Each was born blind. The other villagers loved the old men and kept them away from harm. Since the blind men could not see the world for themselves, they had to imagine many of its wonders. They listened carefully to the stories told by travelers to learn what they could about life outside the village.

The men were curious about many of the stories they heard, but they were most curious about elephants. They were told that elephants could trample forests, carry huge burdens, and frighten young and old with their loud trumpet calls. But they also knew that the Rajah's daughter rode an elephant when she traveled in her father's kingdom. Would the Rajah let his daughter get near such a dangerous creature?

The old men argued day and night about elephants. "An elephant must be a powerful giant," claimed the first blind man. He had heard stories about elephants being used to clear forests and build roads.

"No, you must be wrong," argued the second blind man. "An elephant must be graceful and gentle if a princess is to ride on its back."

"You're wrong! I have heard that an elephant can pierce a man's heart with its terrible horn," said the third blind man.

"Please," said the fourth blind man. "You are all mistaken. An elephant is nothing more than a large sort of cow. You know how people exaggerate."

"I am sure that an elephant is something magical," said the fifth blind man. "That would explain why the Rajah's daughter can travel safely throughout the kingdom."

"I don't believe elephants exist at all," declared the sixth blind man. "I think we are the victims of a cruel joke."

Finally, the villagers grew tired of all the arguments, and they arranged for the curious men to visit the palace of the Rajah to learn the truth about elephants. A young boy from their village was selected to guide the blind men on their journey. The smallest man put his hand on the boy's shoulder. The second blind man put his hand on his friend's shoulder, and so on until all six men were ready to walk safely behind the boy who would lead them to the Rajah's magnificent palace.

When the blind men reached the palace, they were greeted by an old friend from their village who worked as a gardener on the palace grounds. Their friend led them to the courtyard. There stood an elephant. The blind men stepped forward to touch the creature that was the subject of so many arguments.

The first blind man reached out and touched the side of the huge animal. "An elephant is smooth and solid like a wall!" he declared. "It must be very powerful."

The second blind man put his hand on the elephant's limber trunk. "An elephant is like a giant snake," he announced.

The third blind man felt the elephant's pointed tusk. "I was right," he decided. "This creature is as sharp and deadly as a spear."

The fourth blind man touched one of the elephant's four legs. "What we have here," he said, "is an extremely large cow."

The fifth blind man felt the elephant's giant ear. "I believe an elephant is like a huge fan or maybe a magic carpet that can fly over mountains and treetops," he said.

The sixth blind man gave a tug on the elephant's coarse tail. "Why, this is nothing more than a piece of old rope. Dangerous, indeed," he scoffed.

The gardener led his friends to the shade of a tree. "Sit here and rest for the long journey home," he said. "I will bring you some water to drink."

While they waited, the six blind men talked about the elephant.

"An elephant is like a wall," said the first blind man. "Surely we can finally agree on that."

"A wall? An elephant is a giant snake!" answered the second blind man.

"It's a spear, I tell you," insisted the third blind man.

"I'm certain it's a giant cow," said the fourth blind man.

"Magic carpet. There's no doubt," said the fifth blind man.

"Don't you see?" pleaded the sixth blind man. "Someone used a rope to trick us."

Their argument continued and their shouts grew louder and louder.

"Wall!" "Snake!" "Spear!" "Cow!" "Carpet!" "Rope!"

"Stop shouting!" called a very angry voice.

It was the Rajah, awakened from his nap by the noisy argument.

"How can each of you be so certain you are right?" asked the ruler.

The six blind men considered the question. And then, knowing the Rajah to be a very wise man, they decided to say nothing at all.

"The elephant is a very large animal," said the Rajah kindly. "Each man touched only one part. Perhaps if you put the parts together, you will see the truth. Now, let me finish my nap in peace."

When their friend returned to the garden with the cool water, the six men rested quietly in the shade, thinking about the Rajah's advice.

"He is right," said the first blind man. "To learn the truth, we must put all the parts together. Let's discuss this on the journey home."

The first blind man put his hand on the shoulder of the young boy who would guide them home. The second blind man put a hand on his friend's shoulder, and so on until all six men were ready to travel together
 
muscleupcrohn

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I also think that we can learn a great deal from religious teachings even if we chose not to believe in the religions. I think too many people shut themselves off to reading anything “religious” because they don’t want to have to believe in the more abstract or out there theological things.

Honestly, anyone can learn from the teachings of Jesus or the Buddha and apply them without having to believe in their religions, or even in religion at all. Brother Laurence once said something to the effect of he sometimes wished he could do good things for God without Him seeing it and rewarding it, to do it just to do it. Buddhists also say that we have to not only do the right things, but do them for the right reasons. It’s similar to Epictetus and the Stoics saying that we should do good deeds and be done with it, not to expect something in return or to desire to be viewed as good for doing it. Surely we can all learn from these things and apply them, and that we can all say it’s good to do good and expect nothing in return, but merely to do good because it is the right thing to do, it’s our true nature to be good, and that will bring us true happiness. My understanding of it is that Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Plato, and the Stoics all believe that man was created good by nature, but that it’s temptation and worldly pleasures that corrupt us. And that we should therefore strive to fee ourselves from these things that have power over us. I’ve heard Christians say that people are slaves to sin; the Stoics said that we are slaves to whatever we depend on for pleasure. In both cases, we should strive to free ourselves from these things. Plato described these things, these sins or temptations, as nails that bind our soul to our body, and they are strong enough to make us desire to come back again (reincarnation) to satisfy them. Only by removing these nails can we no longer desire to be reborn again, and only then can we go to be with God. The whole “sin as nails” thing resonates pretty well with the whole Jesus dying on the cross for man, no? And he was around hundreds of years BC. The Hindu concept of reincarnation is pretty similar to Plato’s actually. There’s also Jesus saying he is the way. Interestingly, in the Tao Te Ching, written hundreds of years BC, Lao Tzu speaks of something that has always been, that never changes, that created the universe. He says he doesn’t know what to call it, so he calls it the way.

TL;DR: even if Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Plato, etc. all have different ideas of what happens after we die, or why we should seek God, they all seek God, and they all seek to go beyond worldly things, earthly pleasures, sin and temptation. They seek to return to the good nature that we were all created with. Anyone who sincerely strives to do this is someone I can respect, and someone who is striving to be Christ-like, even if they’re not a “Christian.”
 
Aleksandar37

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Repped since you asked, and because it's a solid post haha

I'll check them out. I enjoy reading a wide variety of books, so I'm interested in books to pull together multiple beliefs/philosophies/etc in a way that makes sense (some books do it amazingly well, and some are clearly trying to shove a round peg in a square hole). I'll try to take a picture of some of the books I have. As Ron Burgundy once said, "I have many leather-bound books," but I don't have an apartment that smells of rich mahogany.
Very nice collection! It's been a long time since I've read the Upanishads. I'm going to have to work that back into my daily routine.
 
Zombocalypse

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I also think that we can learn a great deal from religious teachings even if we chose not to believe in the religions. I think too many people shut themselves off to reading anything “religious” because they don’t want to have to believe in the more abstract or out there theological things.

Honestly, anyone can learn from the teachings of Jesus or the Buddha and apply them without having to believe in their religions, or even in religion at all. Brother Laurence once said something to the effect of he sometimes wished he could do good things for God without Him seeing it and rewarding it, to do it just to do it. Buddhists also say that we have to not only do the right things, but do them for the right reasons. It’s similar to Epictetus and the Stoics saying that we should do good deeds and be done with it, not to expect something in return or to desire to be viewed as good for doing it. Surely we can all learn from these things and apply them, and that we can all say it’s good to do good and expect nothing in return, but merely to do good because it is the right thing to do, it’s our true nature to be good, and that will bring us true happiness. My understanding of it is that Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Plato, and the Stoics all believe that man was created good by nature, but that it’s temptation and worldly pleasures that corrupt us. And that we should therefore strive to fee ourselves from these things that have power over us. I’ve heard Christians say that people are slaves to sin; the Stoics said that we are slaves to whatever we depend on for pleasure. In both cases, we should strive to free ourselves from these things. Plato described these things, these sins or temptations, as nails that bind our soul to our body, and they are strong enough to make us desire to come back again (reincarnation) to satisfy them. Only by removing these nails can we no longer desire to be reborn again, and only then can we go to be with God. The whole “sin as nails” thing resonates pretty well with the whole Jesus dying on the cross for man, no? And he was around hundreds of years BC. The Hindu concept of reincarnation is pretty similar to Plato’s actually. There’s also Jesus saying he is the way. Interestingly, in the Tao Te Ching, written hundreds of years BC, Lao Tzu speaks of something that has always been, that never changes, that created the universe. He says he doesn’t know what to call it, so he calls it the way.

TL;DR: even if Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Plato, etc. all have different ideas of what happens after we die, or why we should seek God, they all seek God, and they all seek to go beyond worldly things, earthly pleasures, sin and temptation. They seek to return to the good nature that we were all created with. Anyone who sincerely strives to do this is someone I can respect, and someone who is striving to be Christ-like, even if they’re not a “Christian.”


I'm impressed by your knowledge, to be honest.

I don't know what else to say except thanks for sharing. lol

Actually, when you mentioned that we can all learn from Jesus's and Buddha's teachings, it reminded me of one particular teaching of Jesus during his sermon on the mount. I have it memorized. Here it is...

Matthew 6:31-34

Therefore, do not be anxious saying "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?" or "What shall we wear?" For the gentiles seek after all these things and your heavenly father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Therefore, do not be anxious about tomorrow for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is it's own trouble.


I absolutely loved the sermon on the mount. It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember it being very enlightening and profound.
 
Cgkone

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I'm impressed by your knowledge, to be honest.

I don't know what else to say except thanks for sharing. lol

Actually, when you mentioned that we can all learn from Jesus's and Buddha's teachings, it reminded me of one particular teaching of Jesus during his sermon on the mount. I have it memorized. Here it is...

Matthew 6:31-34

Therefore, do not be anxious saying "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?" or "What shall we wear?" For the gentiles seek after all these things and your heavenly father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Therefore, do not be anxious about tomorrow for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is it's own trouble.


I absolutely loved the sermon on the mount. It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember it being very enlightening and profound.
That's the stuff.

Basically a complete account of alien encounters with humans.

Fully believe prayer can unlock parts of the brain that are dormant.
 
Zombocalypse

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That's the stuff.

Basically a complete account of alien encounters with humans.

Fully believe prayer can unlock parts of the brain that are dormant.
Wait, what? What are you talking about? I'm confused.
 
Cgkone

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Wait, what? What are you talking about? I'm confused.
I'm referring to most of the accounts in the bible where man spoke to God.
Sorry not specifically the sermon on the mount( which is really good)
The entire bible is basically an alien encounter.
 
Zombocalypse

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I'm referring to most of the accounts in the bible where man spoke to God.
Sorry not specifically the sermon on the mount( which is really good)
The entire bible is basically an alien encounter.
Yes. I'm definitely not ruling out that possibility.

The one problem I have with that theory, though, is that it weakens the idea of God being all-powerful. If he is merely an extraterrestrial, it would mean he would be subject to natural, scientific laws. But the God of the Bible is more than just another superior creature. He's more than that. And that's what I believe.
 
Cgkone

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Yes. I'm definitely not ruling out that possibility.

The one problem I have with that theory, though, is that it weakens the idea of God being all-powerful. If he is merely an extraterrestrial, it would mean he would be subject to natural, scientific laws. But the God of the Bible is more than just another superior creature. He's more than that. And that's what I believe.
Aliens could just be an extension of God.
Messengers
God himself never actually walks around on earth just through Jesus.
Its always just a voice or a messenger of God.
 
Cgkone

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So absolutely God could be the creater of earth and man and love us and send prophets and instructions on how to live and still not be a giant man sitting on a gold thrown on a cloud.

I fully believe in God.
Just when it was copied by king James we were so primitive that
It made more sense to believe in angels with wing than angels traveling light speed.

You ever look into the book of Enoch?
 
Cgkone

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No I haven't. What's it about?
When God cast Satan out of heaven many angels went with him.
They had sex with men and women and animals
The of spring were powerful creatures.

King James kept it out when he copied the bible.

Look it up very interesting.
It was in the original scrolls that were used to write the bible.
Or something like that.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I'm referring to most of the accounts in the bible where man spoke to God.
Sorry not specifically the sermon on the mount( which is really good)
The entire bible is basically an alien encounter.
An alien encounter is not the most plausible or logical explanation for the events of the Bible. For one, it’s arguable that not everything is intended to be taken literally at face value. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that Occam’s would suggest that they theory with the least amount of assumptions is probably correct, and throwing aliens into the mix, as something we can’t really prove right now, on top of divine intervention and the presence of God, which we may never be able to “prove” seems less likely than “normal” divine intervention, as an Omnipotent/Omnipresent God is necessary in either case; also having aliens would be another step or assumption that we just don’t know, which makes it less likely IMO. Not impossible, just not likely. If God is omniscient and omnipresent, the simplest explanation is he can just send manifestations and/or communicate directly with people without a physical form/presence. Having God communicate through aliens is another added layer of complexity that further convolutes things IMO. What do these aliens do when they’re not communicating with us? Do they always do God’s will, or just sometimes? Etc. I’m not saying aliens don’t exist, as given infinite time and space, they almost certainly do, or did, or will exist, it’s just I don’t know if they’re messengers of God.

TL;DR; We haven’t “proven” the existence of aliens or God; I’d be wary of saying that they’re so closely linked and interdependent.
 
muscleupcrohn

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I'm impressed by your knowledge, to be honest.

I don't know what else to say except thanks for sharing. lol

Actually, when you mentioned that we can all learn from Jesus's and Buddha's teachings, it reminded me of one particular teaching of Jesus during his sermon on the mount. I have it memorized. Here it is...

Matthew 6:31-34

Therefore, do not be anxious saying "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?" or "What shall we wear?" For the gentiles seek after all these things and your heavenly father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Therefore, do not be anxious about tomorrow for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is it's own trouble.


I absolutely loved the sermon on the mount. It's been a long time since I read it, but I remember it being very enlightening and profound.
Thanks man. The sermon on the mount is definitely amazing, for anyone, Christian or not. The call to not worry is very Stoic, and the call to be mindful of the present moment is very reminiscent of Buddhism. Perhaps that’s just because it’s the truth, and different beliefs have different parts of the truth that Jesus was teaching. It’s all very interesting, and reading different views and beliefs has furthered my understanding of each one. IMO, they can work together, but it does help to have some “base” or “lens” to come back to.
 

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