Lean Bulk....help very much needed

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

hey everyone, new to the forum.

I tried a bulk this past summer for the first time and seemed to gain weight in my lower midsection (lower belly and lower back) more than anywhere else. So I am quite paranoid about trying again. I have no problem conceding that during a bulk some weight will be added to the belly but I barely if at all saw any gains to the targeted areas that I was working out. I was doing Stan Eferding's vertical diet and eating steak, rice, and veggies 4 times a day. I was eating 4 cups of rice a 1.5 lbs of steak and a healthy serving of veggies (carrots and broccoli primarily). I was extremeley dedicated to this diet until I saw that the weight was going to places that I feared the most. So i switched to a very low carb meat primary diet (2 lbs of red meat/day and veggies) and dropped quite a bit of fat off of my mid-section.

The gist of it is that I want to make sure that if I go on a bulk when I cut I am not going to have to drop 20 lbs of fat off my frame. i crruently sit at 180lbs and was around 190-195 after my attempt to "bulk." Any assiatance and tips were be extremely appreciated.

Also note that I am starting Greyskull LP this week after doing Start Bodyweight (plus weights) for 5 months.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Lean bulking is very hard to achieve for most. Never had truly success myself, even with gear.
I hope someone else can be of help, gonna tag BEAST73 , he is currently bulking, maybe he can chime in.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Thanks for the insight I appreciate it

 

[hairygrandpa]

Depending on how long you are already training. If natty, you get closer to your natural limit in time. A bulk may not have the expected results, unless you lost a substantial amount of lean mass beforehand -or never trained really hard/never had your nutrition dialed in. Gaining a couple of pounds in 3 month time is the most to expect (0-2), IMHO. For that, the caloric surplus should be on the lower side, increasing as the cycle progresses.
I guess you already know that.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

I am currently a natty lifter who is always open to finding more effective ways to gain. I have been "lifting" for almost 3 years but still rather novice as I had never followed a strict proven workout regimen. I have had a mainly red meat diet & veggies dialed in now for quite some time (5 months +) but the more that I read I realize that if I truly wish to gain I must start ingesting carbs again. I do not mind gaining fat, I accept that, just would rather gain more muscle or enough muscle in the important areas so that the bulk makes me look like a beast and not someone who eats a ton of pies......

 

[hairygrandpa]

I am currently a natty lifter who is always open to finding more effective ways to gain. I have been "lifting" for almost 3 years but still rather novice as I had never followed a strict proven workout regimen. I have had a mainly red meat diet & veggies dialed in now for quite some time (5 months +) but the more that I read I realize that if I truly wish to gain I must start ingesting carbs again. I do not mind gaining fat, I accept that, just would rather gain more muscle or enough muscle in the important areas so that the bulk makes me look like a beast and not someone who eats a ton of pies......

A lot is genetics.
Do you have a pic of yourself? Just to see how far you got in 3 years.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Here is an old one and one taken last week. I did not take any pics right when I started (I know I should have). here is a poor one but I am still wearing a shirt so not much help.

 

[BEAST73]

Doing a lean Bulk is really hard and it comes down to a person eating, exercise,recovery,and intensity level. Your eating regimen in the beginning looks good to Me.

My questions.
1.What is your body type.
2.Age.
3.Height.
4.Supplements
5.How many times a week are you training.
6.Do you train to failure.
7. How much cardio weekly.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Looking good, bro! A bit more chest would be great -and maybe some more lat (cant see it from that view).
There is some room to improve. Hopefully someone else can give advise on what works best for a natty.

Training is very individual -and my advise may not be optimal for you. To target chest, I do dips/weighted dips, elevated push ups with a 3-4 sec negative, floor DB flies with maximum stretch (arms almost straight), BB bench press mostly partials (bottom movement) with moderate weights, all about the burn baby, not about heavy weights.
Many roads lead to Rome.

 

[BEAST73]

You have a Good Body.. going by your pictures I would eat healthy and big. Weight training 4-6 times a week at Moderate to heavy lifting at your strength level 5 sets 8-15 reps.

2 times a week LISS Cardio 20 min and
1 time a week HIIT cardio 30 min.

 

[BEAST73]

Looking good, bro! A bit more chest would be great -and maybe some more lat (cant see it from that view).
There is some room to improve. Hopefully someone else can give advise on what works best for a natty.

Training is very individual -and my advise may not be optimal for you. To target chest, I do dips/weighted dips, elevated push ups with a 3-4 sec negative, floor DB flies with maximum stretch (arms almost straight), BB bench press mostly partials (bottom movement) with moderate weights, all about the burn baby, not about heavy weights.
Many roads lead to Rome.

I agree on this too 100%

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

hairygrandpa thanks, I appreciate the extra workouts tips, any idea how many times a week to maximal results? I started doing weighted dips this week (previously doing bodyweight 2 times a week 3 x12). That moderate weight bottom movement BP sounds like a real winner. I will have to get these started tonight. I will also start doing maximum stretch flies on the ground and elevated push ups with the 3-4 sec negatives. BEAST73 My diet is very strict and this is the most dedicated I have been to any commitment in my life. I eat steak everyday (1.5 -2 lbs) veggies and other proteins (chicken, pork, salmon, tuna). I also eat cultured cheddars, eggs and that is about it. I do not really take any supplements except deer antler velvet just to give it a shot. I get my creatine from the red meat I eat and I do not take pre-workouts just a couple caffeine pills everyday. I cut out energy drinks and really only drink water and the occasional chocolate milk. I have started greyskull lp this work as a new routine and that calls for a Mon Press/Curl/Squat Wed BP/weighted chins/Deadlift Fri Press/Curl/Squat as the basis for the workout. I do ladders of push ups and pull ups everyday. As well as attempting 100 burpees in 5 minutes..can currently only do 50 so I am working my way there. I also started doing a quick pace walk for 20 min 3 mornings a week...

I really appreciate everyone's help. One last thing If I do put carbs back in the help with size should I go back to eating rice after my workout? If so how much I used to eat 4 cups a day that really showed in my mid-section. I have a tub of Russian Bear protein mass gainer should I use that or just shelve it?

I know this was a lot to write I appreciate you sticking with me!

 

[BEAST73]

I started doing 2 cups of white rice daily two weeks ago.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Got it so skip the post workoput shake and eat 2 cups of rice, is it cool to eat the apart of my post workout meal? I workout in the PM.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I noted that doing LESS made me gain more, meaning that my recovery time is long. BEAST73 on the other hand is like a machine. Everyone is different -but as you are young, ideal time to recover should be around 24 hrs mark.
I would NOT do pull- push ups every day! I also would cut on the curling, you work arms with back workout. Give it some rest. It can only grow resting! At the end YOU have to "feel it out" what training gives you more gains. If anything stalls -give it rest. BEAST73 on the other hand may work out 26 hours a day, LOL.

The nutrition, well, everyone is different (again). I would eat clean and do the "hand or fist trick". When bulking, the open hand is the size of meat on the plate, also the size of carbs. When cutting back, meat = open hand, carb a fist. 3 plates a day.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Thanks hairygrandpa !

 

[hairygrandpa]

Got it so skip the post workoput shake and eat 2 cups of rice, is it cool to eat the apart of my post workout meal? I workout in the PM.

How often to eat is not highly important. I give a moist fart what others say. I eat only one meal a day in a 3 hour window and grow -or cut on it.
I do believe that eating after a workout, especially when working out pm, is most beneficial, as you mostly grow when sleeping. I do use Betaine-HCL with my meal for digestion aid.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I have a tub of Russian Bear protein mass gainer should I use that or just shelve it?

If you really want to use it, maybe intra workout. The carbs it carry would spike insulin fueling your muscles, that could help with pump and replenishing glycogen.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Got it. Thank you very much

 

[Glow]

I think it all depend on the period you have taken trying to bulk. Ideally, you must sacrifice if you want to develop lean muscles. Watching what you eat and training hard are key when bulking. But if you don’t eat the right amount of carbs you end up developing fats around your belly. And again, if you want to bulk, you must eat enough carbs. So the secret is that you must train harder than you have been doing if you want to achieve any tangible results.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Glow Got it, in retrospect when I look back at what I was eating while I was bulking I was very disciplined in the sense that I did not “cheat” I stuck to a diet of 5-6 meals a day with steak and white rice. The only things I added to the rice was kerrygold butter and salt, veggies and cheese. I was eating 8 cups of rice a day and feel that might have been a bit too much and am going to start off with eating 4 cups of rice a day to see how that goes. Also having an actual structured workout regimen I am hoping will help to keep the fat from coming in the wrong areas..

 

[CaponeCEO]

I wouldn’t skip the post workout shake. Your body needs that as soon as possible so that you don’t become catabolic. Make sure you’re using a whey blend.

What is your pre-bed meal? A lot of people don’t realize that protein synthesis happens in deep REM sleep and you need a slow absorbing protein to take advantage of it. Also how much sleep are you getting? The bulking triangle is diet - workout routine - sleep. All equally important.

 

[CaponeCEO]

I think it all depend on the period you have taken trying to bulk. Ideally, you must sacrifice if you want to develop lean muscles. Watching what you eat and training hard are key when bulking. But if you don’t eat the right amount of carbs you end up developing fats around your belly. And again, if you want to bulk, you must eat enough carbs. So the secret is that you must train harder than you have been doing if you want to achieve any tangible results.

Correct. Lean bulking is pretty much a myth. That’s why there’s bulking season and cutting season.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

CaponeCEO I get around 6-7 hours of sleep (got 2 toddlers so I usually wake up to take care of whom ever randomly wakes). I will be going to bed earlier to do my absolute best to achieve maximal sleep. I work out before dinner so once I’m done lifting then dinner is ready and I eat steak/pork/chicken, rice and veggies on top of eating 2 pounds of steak during the day and 4 cups of rice while I am at work. I usually eat cottage cheese before bed for the casein. So everyday I am hitting well over 3k calories. I just started this week ago as well as starting a program that is structured around the squat and deadlift. Looks like this: Day 1: Overhead press, weighted chins, incline BP, Squat, incline lying BB rows, weighted dips; Day 2: BP, Curls, Lying Overhead tri extensions, Deadlift, weighted dips, farmer carry; Day 3: Repeat Day 1, 1 day break in-between. Each BB exercise has 3 working sets and the 3rd set goes to failure. Let me know if I should add anything.

 

[Chados]

This is what I eat. Now granted I'm a totally different person so my diet isn't for you.

Fat 160
Carbs 250-350
Protein 250-315 depending if I'm on gear or not.


Workout

Chest and back
Arms and shoulders
Legs and abs
Rest
Chest and back
Arms and shoulders
Legs and abs
Rest and carb upload while dropping fats

Diet changes a little but this is what I counted a couple of weeks ago so I guess I'm quite close since I don't change much.

Count what you eat for the next 3 days with calories and how much fats carbs and protein you have. I think you're eating too much carbs but that's just me

 

[Chados]

Got it so skip the post workoput shake and eat 2 cups of rice, is it cool to eat the apart of my post workout meal? I workout in the PM.

Have some bcaa 2 hours after your post workout meal right before workout then have a shake after, but eat not long after this shake.
Maybe a protein shake 30 minutes after with some creatine, and considering you've been eating good before the workout you can have some food after an hour or two.

Sugar intake as in plain sugar or fast sugar you really don't need if you're not having a low blood sugar and then if suggest just around 5-10gr with slow carbs such as rice and some protein to not having the bloodsugar spike drastically again.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I wouldn’t skip the post workout shake. Your body needs that as soon as possible so that you don’t become catabolic. Make sure you’re using a whey blend.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I must do something wrong. I don't use whey -and I don't use BCAA's. I don't use a intra-workout shake either and I eat only one meal a day (several meals in a 3 hour window, could be argued to be one meal).

Now waiting to shrivel away and look like dried out Sponge Bob.

 

[STEAKNDEDLIFT]

Haha

 

[Chados]

I must do something wrong. I don't use whey -and I don't use BCAA's. I don't use a intra-workout shake either and I eat only one meal a day (several meals in a 3 hour window, could be argued to be one meal).

Now waiting to shrivel away and look like dried out Sponge Bob.

Are you cutting? I could see this being beneficial once a week, even just having one meal or a complete fast if fatloss is the goal but every day while building muscle would be a bit harder. Not to mention the stress level raising cortisol.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Are you cutting? I could see this being beneficial once a week, even just having one meal or a complete fast if fatloss is the goal but every day while building muscle would be a bit harder. Not to mention the stress level raising cortisol.

Recomping. Not to forget a little bit of juice too.

 

[Chados]

Recomping. Not to forget a little bit of juice too.

Got you. Well that's fair I guess, the deca should be fine keeping the muscles while shredding some fat. For some reason I though you were bulking