What's The Best Liver Support Supplement ?

[Rocket3015]

what about injectable liver support? I saw injectable glutathione on AA I think

I hope you are kidding ???

 

[Potbelly]

what about injectable liver support? I saw injectable glutathione on AA I think

 

[Alan1]

what about injectable liver support? I saw injectable glutathione on AA I think

I mean, sure, it's an option but considering there's an array of oral liver support supplements proven to work well, I just don't see the need to bother with an injectable. My $.02.

 

[Kronic]

I mean, sure, it's an option but considering there's an array of oral liver support supplements proven to work well, I just don't see the need to bother with an injectable. My $.02.

well the idea would be that an injectable is going to absorb better than oral. glutathione is available in oral form too. I probably would just run a vial every once in a while (once a year?)

 

[Rocket3015]

Wouldn't oral pass thru the liver better ???

 

[JKVol]

Wouldn't oral pass thru the liver better ???

Yes

 

[booneman77]

well the idea would be that an injectable is going to absorb better than oral. glutathione is available in oral form too. I probably would just run a vial every once in a while (once a year?)

It may, but realistically there is no issue with the absorption of the types that have been mentioned so its really a cost:benefit question more than anything... I just don't see it actually being much, if any, more effective (or cheaper) than the alternatives... If it were, you'd see more Dr.'s using it as well and that's not something I've literally ever heard.

 

[Kronic]

It may, but realistically there is no issue with the absorption of the types that have been mentioned so its really a cost:benefit question more than anything... I just don't see it actually being much, if any, more effective (or cheaper) than the alternatives... If it were, you'd see more Dr.'s using it as well and that's not something I've literally ever heard.

seems like it's worth trying

I can get injectable aminos from my trt clinic doctor, which should get made at a compounding pharmacy. they're just a lot more expensive than doing research

 

[Rocket3015]

Got a Great Deal! Thank you SNS.

 

[booneman77]

View attachment 208335

Got a Great Deal! Thank you SNS.

You won’t be disappointed. Super simple but quality and dosage trumps an undersized kitchen sink all day

 

[sns8778]

I think Glutathione has benefits but I don't think its better than the ingredients in Liver Assist XT, quality TUDCA, or L-Ornithine L-Aspartate. L-Ornithine L-Aspartate is the least known of the group.


Liver Assist XT
TUDCA
L-Ornithine L-Aspartate

View attachment 208335

Got a Great Deal! Thank you SNS.

Thank you. I hope you'll be pleased. Liver Assist XT is a very underrated product and doesn't get nearly as much talk on AM as it should in my opinion.

 

[Rocket3015]

We will see how my numbers are in a few months!

 

[justeat]

I know this is an older thread but it’s not that old, and it has a good amount of quality responses… sooo..

why am I not seeing SAM-E mentioned at all? I know the hype from it died off as the efficacy of NAC and TUDCA were proven likely higher.

Any studies I’ve read support this- TUDCA/NAC as top tier in liver protection, but they also claim SAM-E to still be quite effective (which is why it was the go-to support for so long)- and some studies that even show the combo of SAM-E and TUDCA to be synergistic, providing even better protection. I’m not going to post them. If you want to look at studies just google it. The first page of results has everything I’m mentioning here.

so really I’m just wondering why SAM-E hasn’t been mentioned here in a list of the better products out there?

 

[sns8778]

I know this is an older thread but it’s not that old, and it has a good amount of quality responses… sooo..

why am I not seeing SAM-E mentioned at all? I know the hype from it died off as the efficacy of NAC and TUDCA were proven likely higher.

Any studies I’ve read support this- TUDCA/NAC as top tier in liver protection, but they also claim SAM-E to still be quite effective (which is why it was the go-to support for so long)- and some studies that even show the combo of SAM-E and TUDCA to be synergistic, providing even better protection. I’m not going to post them. If you want to look at studies just google it. The first page of results has everything I’m mentioning here.

so really I’m just wondering why SAM-E hasn’t been mentioned here in a list of the better products out there?

Good question and I'm glad to answer it from an industry perspective.

SAMe never really caught on nearly as much in bodybuilding circles as it did with the general health population. Although, and some may find this bit of trivia interesting - that Optimum Nutrition was one of the first companies to ever put a SAMe capsule out back when they used to do general health supplements as well.

There are probably 3 main reasons:
1. The way it works is not as applicable to bodybuilding as towards the general health consumer.
2. Quality, supply chain, and pricing issues have traditionally discouraged brands from making it.
3. The above 2 factors have discouraged brands from doing it so it hasn't been advertised in the bodybuilding community nearly as much as the general health side.

SAMe - Liver Support for the Bodybuilder vs. the General Health Consumer:
The way that SAMe works for liver support is by being a methyl donor and helping to restore glutathione levels in the liver and may also help support healing from liver injury. While this would also be good for the bodybuilder, these benefits are more applicable to other types of liver issues.

SAMe - Quality, Supply Chain, & Pricing Issues:
SAMe has always been fairly expensive as a single ingredient price and for many years had huge price and raw material quality fluctuations. There is also the issue with stability which for a long time made it hard to include in formulation items (along with the price). Most of the time consumers don't know things like this - but issues like this are a nightmare for reputable brands to deal with so it held them back and kept them from wanting to make or promote one.

^^^ so, while its a great ingredient, the above reasons kept it from catching on or being very popular in bodybuilding circles.

I've said in the past and always ranked it like this:
- Liver Assist XT (NAC, Milk Thistle, Artichoke, Curcumin) - for foundational liver support
- TUDCA - for advanced liver support
- SAMe - good for liver support & add it in if you have the above bases covered &/or want some of the extra benefits it provides

I hope this helps.

I am a fan of SAMe and had actually considered doing it as a single ingredient product or possibly using it in an upcoming formula (although it wouldn't be a liver support one).

I would encourage anyone using SAMe to make sure they're getting it from a reputable brand that has good quality controls. In my case, I prefer the NOW Foods brand for SAMe because I trust their quality.

 

[Rocket3015]

Great information and a good endorsement for NOW Brands

 

[justeat]

Good question and I'm glad to answer it from an industry perspective.

SAMe never really caught on nearly as much in bodybuilding circles as it did with the general health population. Although, and some may find this bit of trivia interesting - that Optimum Nutrition was one of the first companies to ever put a SAMe capsule out back when they used to do general health supplements as well.

There are probably 3 main reasons:
1. The way it works is not as applicable to bodybuilding as towards the general health consumer.
2. Quality, supply chain, and pricing issues have traditionally discouraged brands from making it.
3. The above 2 factors have discouraged brands from doing it so it hasn't been advertised in the bodybuilding community nearly as much as the general health side.

SAMe - Liver Support for the Bodybuilder vs. the General Health Consumer:
The way that SAMe works for liver support is by being a methyl donor and helping to restore glutathione levels in the liver and may also help support healing from liver injury. While this would also be good for the bodybuilder, these benefits are more applicable to other types of liver issues.

SAMe - Quality, Supply Chain, & Pricing Issues:
SAMe has always been fairly expensive as a single ingredient price and for many years had huge price and raw material quality fluctuations. There is also the issue with stability which for a long time made it hard to include in formulation items (along with the price). Most of the time consumers don't know things like this - but issues like this are a nightmare for reputable brands to deal with so it held them back and kept them from wanting to make or promote one.

^^^ so, while its a great ingredient, the above reasons kept it from catching on or being very popular in bodybuilding circles.

I've said in the past and always ranked it like this:
- Liver Assist XT (NAC, Milk Thistle, Artichoke, Curcumin) - for foundational liver support
- TUDCA - for advanced liver support
- SAMe - good for liver support & add it in if you have the above bases covered &/or want some of the extra benefits it provides

I hope this helps.

I am a fan of SAMe and had actually considered doing it as a single ingredient product or possibly using it in an upcoming formula (although it wouldn't be a liver support one).

I would encourage anyone using SAMe to make sure they're getting it from a reputable brand that has good quality controls. In my case, I prefer the NOW Foods brand for SAMe because I trust their quality.

That answer was incredibly better then what I was hoping and assuming I’d get. That all makes a lot of sense. I’m currently using TUDCA and SAMe, but am going to add NAC in too. I’ve used your liver assist before, and based on what it has/what I’m currently lacking, it looks like that’s the move right now. Thank you.

 

[sns8778]

That answer was incredibly better then what I was hoping and assuming I’d get. That all makes a lot of sense. I’m currently using TUDCA and SAMe, but am going to add NAC in too. I’ve used your liver assist before, and based on what it has/what I’m currently lacking, it looks like that’s the move right now. Thank you.

No problem at all, I'm glad to help in any way that I can.

Liver Assist XT is a great product and very comprehensive. It's good for anyone from the general health consumer just looking for lifestyle support to detox purposes to the bodybuilder using performance enhancers.

A word of caution on TUDCA (not specific to you, just everyone) - be careful with the brand you get on this ingredient. In my opinion, its one of the top 5 most problematic ingredients in terms of raw material quality issues on the market. There are some brands that you will see, especially on Amazon, that claim to offer TUDCA at prices that are just simply impossible. I saw a brand on there the other day that if what they had were legit raws - if you took the cost of raw materials + bottle, capsule, lids, etc. and figured zero markup for their cm or the brand at all, that they would have been losing over 2.00 per unit when you figure in Amazon fees.

 

[Rocket3015]

Someone is always trying to take our hard earned money

 

[Kronic]

I know this is an older thread but it’s not that old, and it has a good amount of quality responses… sooo..

why am I not seeing SAM-E mentioned at all? I know the hype from it died off as the efficacy of NAC and TUDCA were proven likely higher.

Any studies I’ve read support this- TUDCA/NAC as top tier in liver protection, but they also claim SAM-E to still be quite effective (which is why it was the go-to support for so long)- and some studies that even show the combo of SAM-E and TUDCA to be synergistic, providing even better protection. I’m not going to post them. If you want to look at studies just google it. The first page of results has everything I’m mentioning here.

so really I’m just wondering why SAM-E hasn’t been mentioned here in a list of the better products out there?

I have/use azendus SAMe. when I did my research it seemed like the best SAMe but idk

 

[sns8778]

Someone is always trying to take our hard earned money

But always putting it right back into bringing out more cool products to help people

 

[Rocket3015]

But always putting it right back into bringing out more cool products to help people

I was speaking about these kind of sleez bags !!

A word of caution on TUDCA (not specific to you, just everyone) - be careful with the brand you get on this ingredient. In my opinion, its one of the top 5 most problematic ingredients in terms of raw material quality issues on the market. There are some brands that you will see, especially on Amazon, that claim to offer TUDCA at prices that are just simply impossible. I saw a brand on there the other day that if what they had were legit raws - if you took the cost of raw materials + bottle, capsule, lids, etc. and figured zero markup for their cm or the brand at all, that they would have been losing over 2.00 per unit when you figure in Amazon fees.

 

[sns8778]

I was speaking about these kind of sleez bags !!

A word of caution on TUDCA (not specific to you, just everyone) - be careful with the brand you get on this ingredient. In my opinion, its one of the top 5 most problematic ingredients in terms of raw material quality issues on the market. There are some brands that you will see, especially on Amazon, that claim to offer TUDCA at prices that are just simply impossible. I saw a brand on there the other day that if what they had were legit raws - if you took the cost of raw materials + bottle, capsule, lids, etc. and figured zero markup for their cm or the brand at all, that they would have been losing over 2.00 per unit when you figure in Amazon fees.

Ah, gotcha. I thought you were joking with me from where I mentioned we may come out with a SAMe product at some point - I thought you were joking that we were coming out with another product that you may want to spend money on. So I was just joking back that at least we are rolling pretty much all profits into new products haha.

I didn't take it in a bad way at all. I just thought maybe it was jokingly.

But yeah, it sucks about the companies and brands putting out the garbage quality products. Some of them its lack of quality control but unfortunately some its just an outright scam.

 

[The Solution]

I was speaking about these kind of sleez bags !!

A word of caution on TUDCA (not specific to you, just everyone) - be careful with the brand you get on this ingredient. In my opinion, its one of the top 5 most problematic ingredients in terms of raw material quality issues on the market. There are some brands that you will see, especially on Amazon, that claim to offer TUDCA at prices that are just simply impossible. I saw a brand on there the other day that if what they had were legit raws - if you took the cost of raw materials + bottle, capsule, lids, etc. and figured zero markup for their cm or the brand at all, that they would have been losing over 2.00 per unit when you figure in Amazon fees.

A big reason why I buy Morphogen. You know you get exactly what you pay for.
Taking TUDCA from Ben has cut my liver enzymes in half with no other changes to my dietary habits or training schedule. Just simply add the product.

My AST was 91
ALT was 62

A few months on TUDCA
AST - 63
ALT - 41

 

[match]

A big reason why I buy Morphogen. You know you get exactly what you pay for.
Taking TUDCA from Ben has cut my liver enzymes in half with no other changes to my dietary habits or training schedule. Just simply add the product.

My AST was 91
ALT was 62

A few months on TUDCA
AST - 63
ALT - 41

That's awesome

 

[sns8778]

A big reason why I buy Morphogen. You know you get exactly what you pay for.
Taking TUDCA from Ben has cut my liver enzymes in half with no other changes to my dietary habits or training schedule. Just simply add the product.

My AST was 91
ALT was 62

A few months on TUDCA
AST - 63
ALT - 41

I think you may not have realized when you posted this that the paragraph you quoted from Rocket he had quoted from me that I had written about raw material quality issues with TUDCA.

I just didn't want anyone reading to think that my post was about Morphogen's one way or the other.

I'm happy for you that you've gotten such good results with TUDCA, regardless of who it was from.

Some people may remember, some may not, that under CEL we were one of the first companies to offer TUDCA as a supplement many years ago.

CEL TUDCA is 250 mg. per capsule x 60 caps per bottle and can be found at some retailers for as low as the mid to upper 20's.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Some people may remember, some may not, that under CEL we were one of the first companies to offer TUDCA as a supplement many years ago.

Yep i remember! We carry it over at Strong Supplement Shop and definitely is my go to for liver support.

 

[Warner6419]

Hi everyone here I can tell you the best liver support supplements;

1. 1Md Liver MD.
2. Gundry MD.
These are the two best supplements for liver support that I use them.

 

[Rocket3015]

Hi everyone here I can tell you the best liver support supplements;

1. 1Md Liver MD.
2. Gundry MD.
These are the two best supplements for liver support that I use them.

He has spoken !!

 

[sns8778]

Of the above listed, I like TUDCA/UDCA the best for the specific type of cholestatic injury bodybuilders do to their liver. But even a Cochrane Review wasn't so keen on it:

Ursodeoxycholic acid for primary biliary cirrhosis

www.cochrane.org

In second place would be milk thistle. But the only type of milk thistle that actually absorbs through the gut in significant quantities is the patented Siliphos type. And what's been disappointing is a study showing that while it reduced liver enzymes on a blood tests, when biopsies were done no histological changes in liver damage or disease was found with the milk thistle group.

And lastly there's NAC and glutathione, which are antioxidants and may help with chronic problems but only really proven in the case of an acute overdose. Glutathione is not absorbed by the gut it is broken down into it's amino acids first.

The goal with liver health supplements should be to use them for liver support, detoxification, and possible protective purposes; not to rely on them for damage control after the damage is done. They may help with that; but its normally easier and more efficient to help keep things from getting bad than to do damage control once they are already bad. That's the same for diet and exercise - its better to work on proper diet and exercise to keep things from getting bad rather than wait for them to be bad to change it up once they do.

TUDCA is most commonly originally known for cholestatic liver injury which made it popular with bodybuilders; I'm very familiar with that because we were one of the first companies to ever offer it as a supplement (CEL). But as knowledge and information and studies have grown over the years, TUDCA has also been shown to be beneficial for liver function in people with cirrhosis and hepatitis as well as cholestasis. Multiple studies have shown that TUDCA can support the lowering of liver enzymes (ALT, AST, etc.).

And I'm sorry but that is not correct on Siliphos. I deal with the company that handles Siliphos and even they don't claim that they are the only type that actually absorbs thru the gut in significant quantities. Siliphos is a basically a phytosomal silymarin which means that you can get better absorption out of a lesser dose. But that doesn't mean that Milk Thistle standardized properly for a high % of Silymarin content isn't also effective; it just means that you would have to take a lesser dose of Siliphos. That's the case with plenty of herbal ingredients - example Quercefit, a great phytosomal Quercetin - Quercefit allows you to get benefits out of a lower dose but that doesn't mean regular Quercetin doesn't work, you just have to take more of it.

As for mentioning the study about Milk Thistle relating to reduced liver enzymes on blood tests but when biopsies were done there was no historical changes in liver damage or disease - I think its important to frame that in context. The goal of a liver health supplement should be to help with liver support, detoxification, etc. in order to provide support before the damage happening to begin with. Of course its going to be easier with most any condition to help do things to prevent it versus correct damage done - the same can be said for diet or exercise. And also, I'm not sure what results that researchers could really hope to see in shorter term studies for any type of correction to liver damage or disease. That doesn't mean it won't help, it just means it may take time. But the goal shouldn't be to only add something after damage is done. If using it shows improvements in reducing liver enzymes in blood tests, that's an indicator that it is helping do what its supposed to be doing.

NAC (N-Acetyl L-Cysteine) has a lot of research on helping support liver function, detoxification, & protective effects on the liver and many other benefits. It has been studied on everything from non-alcohol induced fatty liver disease to hepatitis. There's literally dozens if not hundreds of studies on this.

I'm not going to get into the Glutathione subject. There is too much commercialization and marketing on this subject both ways and debates usually only lead to arguments now days. All I'll say on this is that I think Milk Thistle, TUDCA, and NAC are all better options than it for liver support.

 

[match]

About 6 months ago (give or take) I got a blood test back that showed my ALT levels were very elevated (not due to AAS use).

Through diet changes and supplementation I have brought my levels down significantly.

I still need to put the data together on my spreadsheets, but if anyone is interested I can post my progress, and the various changes I made along the way, to get my numbers down.

 

[Rocket3015]

So I would think if you took Liver Assist XD and TUDCA you should be pretty good to go.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

So I would think if you took Liver Assist XD and TUDCA you should be pretty good to go.

thats a nice stack .. i have seen test results on solo Liver Assist and were impressive .. have seen tudca with impressive ..def can take both , which i have done it but just didnt get test results on them .. currently doing liver assistXT + BP XT and feel amazing on it ( no cycle or pct .. just for health/cardiovascular improvements )

 

[NateS42]

I'm not going to get into the Glutathione subject. There is too much commercialization and marketing on this subject both ways and debates usually only lead to arguments now days. All I'll say on this is that I think Milk Thistle, TUDCA, and NAC are all better options than it for liver support.

What are your thoughts on PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine aka hepatopro)?

 

[NateS42]

It's used for fatty livers. In fact if you inject it right into fat tissue it reduces the fat in the tissue so it's quite powerful. But also citicholine (CDP) and regular old choline gets converted to phosphotidylcholine. So do you really need the expensive hepatopro stuff? I don't know. But if you're going to take choline or choline derivatives for a fatty liver you might as well take inositol too.

I’m not sure there’s appreciable conversion between polyenyl-phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylcholine

 

[sns8778]

So I would think if you took Liver Assist XT and TUDCA you should be pretty good to go.

Agreed. I think thats a pretty perfect combination.

I think that a lot of people don't realize how highly dosed Liver Assist XT is.

2 Servings Per Day Provides:

2,000 mg. NAC
1,200 mg. Milk Thistle (Std. for min. 80% Silymarin providing 480 mg. actual Silymarin)
250 mg. Curcumin (std. for 95% Curcuminoids)
100 mg. Artichoke Extract

 

[sns8778]

What are your thoughts on PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine aka hepatopro)?

I generally don't like commenting on other companies products (I like Life Extension in general.)

I think that PPC is an okay ingredient but I don't think its as good as the others we've been discussing - but thats just my opinion. And its one that I haven't heard much real world feedback on.

A good way to look at it would be that I have an autoimmune condition and the last time I had bloodwork done my ALT is very elevated; which they think is related to the autoimmune condition. I started taking Liver Assist XT (Milk Thistle, NAC, Curcumin, Artichoke), TUDCA, and L-Ornithine L-Aspartate. And I may add SAMe; I'm just very picky on which SAMe I'll use and the one I trust was out of stock when I checked. And even though I'm glad to buy and go all out to help with my liver #'s, I didn't feel it worth it to take PPC myself.

So basically I think if someone covers their bases and wants to go all out that's fine but I wouldn't use it in place of any of the others. I hope that makes sense.

 

[sns8778]

It's used for fatty livers. In fact if you inject it right into fat tissue it reduces the fat in the tissue so it's quite powerful. But also citicholine (CDP) and regular old choline gets converted to phosphotidylcholine. So do you really need the expensive hepatopro stuff? I don't know. But if you're going to take choline or choline derivatives for a fatty liver you might as well take inositol too.

You make good points with Choline and Inositol.

Choline deficiency has been linked to non-alcohol related nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). There seems to be more data on choline deficiency causing it than there is choline supplementation helping to treat it; but from a common sense perspective it does seem like it would help. The form of choline used could be selected based off the other results that a person is looking for. For example, I use Focus XT daily that has Alpha GPC and Choline Bitartrate in it and I take an extra 500 to 1 gram of Choline Citrate per day. But I do like Citicoline too. Regardless of what choline looks like on paper, many people find that they respond better to one type or another and sometimes we just have to find the one that works for us. Example - the reason I add extra Choline Citrate is that it helps clear brain fog and improves my mood in a motivation sense.

Inositol can be good as well. If I remember correctly, it would generally lend itself towards being beneficial for people with fatty liver disease.

IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate, Phytic Acid) is good for liver support and actually has real data on it for the inhibition of liver cancer cells. A lot of people don't realize how fascinating of an ingredient IP6 actually is.

 

[sns8778]

Depends on the milk thistle/silymarin dose you think is necessary to work, which is debatable because it's debatable whether it even works in the first place. But, just my opinion here, I think if it works at all it is at a higher dose than most take, and for that you'll need the enhanced absorption Siliphos provides. Otherwise you're needing to take a whole lot of milk thistle caps.

Quercetin, on the other hand, is easy to overdose on and damage the kidneys. So those phytosomal or nanoparticle preparations haven't been recommended so much. We know it's not a good idea to take more than a gram of the regular stuff long term, we don't know how much for the advanced preparations. There is no similar concern with silymarin.

I think that an important distinction here needs to be the active dose of Silymarin. For example, there is Milk Thistle herb that has a very low or unspecified Silymarin content. So on that type, yes you would need to take a lot. But if you're talking a Milk Thistle (std. to 80% Silymarin) for example, I don't think the dosage needs to be super high. My thought on this is 600 mg to 1200 mg. per day imo.

As for Quercetin, I wouldn't say its easy to overdose on it and the research information has been conflicting. There are some things that indicate that over a gram per day may have negative effects on the kidneys BUT there are also studies that show that Quercetin has been shown to have beneficial effects on the kidneys.

Even the brands that are super conservative on dosage recommendations like NOW Foods for example recommend Quercetin at 1600 mg. per day.

The same company that has the rights to Siliphos has the rights to Quercefit (phytosomal Quercetin) and they do have research data on it. Another branded ingredient company recently launched an Isoquercetin as well.

I don't want to argue with you here so hopefully we can just agree to disagree and focus more on positive conversations like we're both in agreement on the Choline and Inositol being cool overlooked ingredients for this purposes.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Nutriissa Cycle Support = Basically CEL Cycle Support compressive + TUDCA integrated, plus few things CEL doesn't even have.
=
Just started this with Mechabol, actually today. I am simplifying with this and extra CEL Tudca if I switch to say M-Sten or other heavier oral.

 

[sns8778]

Nutriissa Cycle Support = Basically CEL Cycle Support compressive + TUDCA integrated, plus few things CEL doesn't even have.

I'm sorry but no, it absolutely isn't.

We don't do window dressing products where we throw a little bit of everything but not hardly enough of anything into a product.

Specifying here - my post is not directed negatively at you; stuff like this pisses me off at the companies that do the shady crap like this that deceives people. So me addressing the product doesn't mean I'm putting you down in any way so please don't take it that way. I don't want to see you or anyone else get hurt by thinking they're taking the proper support type product when they aren't.

I most of the time don't comment on other companies products but you put me on the spot here where I can't in good conscience not reply to this bc this.

This is one of those types of products that is very deceptive to consumers and people that don't know exactly what they're looking for in terms of ingredients and extracts. Please don't take that wrong, I don't mean that offensively - I mean it in the sense that companies shouldn't try to use deceptive tactics to fool people into buying products.

As someone that works in the industry, when I look at this label what I see isn't necessarily what the customer sees. And that's the thing, I feel like a consumer shouldn't have to be super knowledgeable nor have to worry about being deceived by a label. And it can be especially bad and potentially dangerous in categories like this where people may be taking other things and relying on the product for support purposes.

Liver support is no joke, especially when taking methylated ph's.

Here are some things to look at pertaining to this product:

TUDCA - I already explained in this thread that TUDCA is one of the most underdosed and problematic raw materials on the market. I'm not saying this one is, I'm just saying people should be careful with TUDCA in general and make sure that they are buying from a reputable brand that tests each and every batch of raw materials.

Milk Thistle Powder - the active constituent in Milk Thistle is Silymarin. It's the Silymarin content that supports liver health, detoxification, and protection. This product literally has no Silymarin in it; therefore no active ingredient for liver health.

Glutathione - Glutathione is an odd ingredient choice for a product like this and especially at 40 mg. because that dosage is pretty useless. It's in here as a sales pitch and marketing tactic bc its a trending popular ingredient but there's not enough in here to do anything. Plus it doesn't specify that its a reduced form and if it isn't, its not the proper form for effectiveness anyway.

Hawthorn Berry Powder - this product contains Hawthorn Berry Powder, no standardized extract whatsoever - little to no active content.

Garlic - this product says Garlic Extract but doesn't mention Allicin and the dose is only 300 mg. So its dramatically underdosed to be a garlic supplement and there may be literally no Allicin and therefore no active content.

Saw Palmetto Powder - again, same trend as above. Powder, not extract. It does not specify any active constituent and acknowledges that its the basic herb powder - therefore little to no active constituent. In context, Natures Herbs had a Saw Palmetto powder dosed at I believe 700 mg. and they considered the effective dose 9 capsules per day!

Biotin - two issues here that make me wonder what is even going on with this product - 1) Biotin is supposed to be dosed in mg. or mcg, not in IU's. 2) Biotin is supposed to be identified at the top of the label with the Vitamins and minerals; not at the bottom of the label like this. (and on that subject, Bioperine is supposed to NOT be in the top of the label with the vitamins).

I never nitpick companies on label typos or things like that bc mistakes and accidents can happen - but in today's times of stricter FDA compliance and GMP guidelines, its crazy to me that a company doesn't know or doesn't even care to at least seemingly label their product in a compliant legal manner.

As for your comparison to Cycle Assist:

Per Daily Dose:

Milk Thistle:
- Product in your post - 1000 mg. of Milk Thistle Powder (no Silymarin specified)
- Cycle Assist - 1000 mg. Milk Thistle Extract (Std. to 80% Silymarin)

Hawthorn:
- Product in your post - 1,000 mg. Hawthorn Berry Powder
- Cycle Assist - 900 mg. Hawthorn Berry Extract (Std. to min. 1.8% Vitexin)

Saw Palmetto:
- Product in your post - 1,000 mg. Herb Powder
- Cycle Assist - 320 mg. Saw Palmetto Extract (std. to min 45% fatty acids)

Cycle Assist also contains 150 mg. per day of Celery Seed Extract and 150 mg. per day of Grape Seed Extract.

We actually address the problem with non-standardized herbs in the Cycle Assist write up. Here's a link for anyone that wants to read it:

Cycle Assist - Competitive Edge Labs, LLC

Cycle Assist is the original all-in-one support supplement for on cycle & PCT needs including liver, blood pressure, prostate, and acne support.

competitiveedgelabs.com

You could literally buy a bottle of CEL Cycle Assist or SNS Liver Assist XT and a bottle of CEL TUDCA for around the same or lesser price than the product in the post and have the proper standardized extracts at their efficacious dosages.

 

[Rocket3015]

Great Info !!! Thank you! @sns8778

 

[LeanEngineer]

You could literally buy a bottle of CEL Cycle Assist or SNS Liver Assist XT and a bottle of CEL TUDCA for around the same or lesser price than the product in the post and have the proper standardized extracts at their efficacious dosages.

This! Cycle Assist and Tudca by CEL for the win imo!

 

[Rocket3015]

I Think We Need An SNS/CEL Sale !!

 

[sns8778]

The old school bodybuilders like to take what's called "MIC" for their livers which is Methionine, Inositol, Choline. They take it especially after a cycle to "clean out" fat and toxins. But as you correctly pointed out, SAM-e (S-Adenosyl methionine) is a better form of methionine without the homocysteine byproduct. But you can't trust all brands of SAM-e. And also citicholine/cdp-choline and phosphatidylcholine are better forms of choline. Alpha-GPC is too, but more geared for brain barrier entry and acetylcholine production. And if on a budget, plain old MIC is fine too. I wouldn't take it instead of TUDCA and milk thistle though.

TUDCA is something you can taste if you've tasted pure TUDCA before. It's probably the worst thing I've ever tasted. Some of those DMAA/DMHA powdered stims come close. As a bile salt you might think it would taste like poop but instead it's very chemically tasting and doesn't wash out of your mouth easily. So after buying a tub of the powder I quickly realized it needs to be capped. And even when capped you can taste any light residue on the outside of the capsules.

I remember back in the days where the Methionine, Inositol, Choline combo was still popular. Thanks for making me feel old

I agree on not trusting all brands of SAMe. I think this is the thread I talked about that in in another post that its a good ingredient but have to be very careful to buy from a brand with good quality controls. And I had said in a post that I hadn't added it my own liver care stack at the moment bc the brand I trust was out of stock on it.

TUDCA isn't the worst raw I've ever tasted but it definitely doesn't taste good. As you can probably imagine, working in this industry on the raw material side for so long, I've tasted some truly terrible tasting raw materials lol.

 

[henryaham897]

That is the supplement i am always thinking about. maybe if you have have healthy liver you would also loose fat and make your metabolism faster. i have a filipino friends they are using Glutha coz they all want to have a whiter skin, but that glutha a supplement for the liver

 

[JeremyNG25]

I'm sorry but no, it absolutely isn't.

We don't do window dressing products where we throw a little bit of everything but not hardly enough of anything into a product.

Specifying here - my post is not directed negatively at you; stuff like this pisses me off at the companies that do the shady crap like this that deceives people. So me addressing the product doesn't mean I'm putting you down in any way so please don't take it that way. I don't want to see you or anyone else get hurt by thinking they're taking the proper support type product when they aren't.

I most of the time don't comment on other companies products but you put me on the spot here where I can't in good conscience not reply to this bc this.

This is one of those types of products that is very deceptive to consumers and people that don't know exactly what they're looking for in terms of ingredients and extracts. Please don't take that wrong, I don't mean that offensively - I mean it in the sense that companies shouldn't try to use deceptive tactics to fool people into buying products.

As someone that works in the industry, when I look at this label what I see isn't necessarily what the customer sees. And that's the thing, I feel like a consumer shouldn't have to be super knowledgeable nor have to worry about being deceived by a label. And it can be especially bad and potentially dangerous in categories like this where people may be taking other things and relying on the product for support purposes.

Liver support is no joke, especially when taking methylated ph's.

Here are some things to look at pertaining to this product:

TUDCA - I already explained in this thread that TUDCA is one of the most underdosed and problematic raw materials on the market. I'm not saying this one is, I'm just saying people should be careful with TUDCA in general and make sure that they are buying from a reputable brand that tests each and every batch of raw materials.

Milk Thistle Powder - the active constituent in Milk Thistle is Silymarin. It's the Silymarin content that supports liver health, detoxification, and protection. This product literally has no Silymarin in it; therefore no active ingredient for liver health.

Glutathione - Glutathione is an odd ingredient choice for a product like this and especially at 40 mg. because that dosage is pretty useless. It's in here as a sales pitch and marketing tactic bc its a trending popular ingredient but there's not enough in here to do anything. Plus it doesn't specify that its a reduced form and if it isn't, its not the proper form for effectiveness anyway.

Hawthorn Berry Powder - this product contains Hawthorn Berry Powder, no standardized extract whatsoever - little to no active content.

Garlic - this product says Garlic Extract but doesn't mention Allicin and the dose is only 300 mg. So its dramatically underdosed to be a garlic supplement and there may be literally no Allicin and therefore no active content.

Saw Palmetto Powder - again, same trend as above. Powder, not extract. It does not specify any active constituent and acknowledges that its the basic herb powder - therefore little to no active constituent. In context, Natures Herbs had a Saw Palmetto powder dosed at I believe 700 mg. and they considered the effective dose 9 capsules per day!

Biotin - two issues here that make me wonder what is even going on with this product - 1) Biotin is supposed to be dosed in mg. or mcg, not in IU's. 2) Biotin is supposed to be identified at the top of the label with the Vitamins and minerals; not at the bottom of the label like this. (and on that subject, Bioperine is supposed to NOT be in the top of the label with the vitamins).

I never nitpick companies on label typos or things like that bc mistakes and accidents can happen - but in today's times of stricter FDA compliance and GMP guidelines, its crazy to me that a company doesn't know or doesn't even care to at least seemingly label their product in a compliant legal manner.

As for your comparison to Cycle Assist:

Per Daily Dose:

Milk Thistle:
- Product in your post - 1000 mg. of Milk Thistle Powder (no Silymarin specified)
- Cycle Assist - 1000 mg. Milk Thistle Extract (Std. to 80% Silymarin)

Hawthorn:
- Product in your post - 1,000 mg. Hawthorn Berry Powder
- Cycle Assist - 900 mg. Hawthorn Berry Extract (Std. to min. 1.8% Vitexin)

Saw Palmetto:
- Product in your post - 1,000 mg. Herb Powder
- Cycle Assist - 320 mg. Saw Palmetto Extract (std. to min 45% fatty acids)

Cycle Assist also contains 150 mg. per day of Celery Seed Extract and 150 mg. per day of Grape Seed Extract.

We actually address the problem with non-standardized herbs in the Cycle Assist write up. Here's a link for anyone that wants to read it:

Cycle Assist - Competitive Edge Labs, LLC

Cycle Assist is the original all-in-one support supplement for on cycle & PCT needs including liver, blood pressure, prostate, and acne support.

competitiveedgelabs.com

You could literally buy a bottle of CEL Cycle Assist or SNS Liver Assist XT and a bottle of CEL TUDCA for around the same or lesser price than the product in the post and have the proper standardized extracts at their efficacious dosages.

Why does my cycle assist have ALA and apigenin in it now?

 

[henryaham897]

Why does my cycle assist have ALA and apigenin in it now?

thanks for your advice

 

[match]

thanks for your advice

 

[JeremyNG25]

Lol

 

[Rocket3015]

Does Not Computer (Computer Voice)