That would be awesome if you could pull off that flavoring. Candy corn, circus peanuts and twizzlers were my favorites growing up.I'm sold on the idea. I'll see if its a flavor that we can make taste good. It's one of those flavors that - Circus Peanuts taste like Circus Peanuts - so I'm going to have to look it up and see what the actual flavor breakdown is but definitely worth trying to figure out. I'm all about cool creative flavors and love the 80's throwback ideas.
I will look more into the Black Ginger Root. Thank you for the information.Anacylus + Cistanche + Spilanthes would be an interesting combo. It definitely sounds good on paper, but I don't have much experience with Spilanthes supplements except for what I've read.
Black Ginger Extract - I've been seeing this supplement more and more lately and it can be used solo or as part of formula. It's marketed as an aid for ED as well as being an aphrodisiac due to it being a natural PDE5 inhibitor. I've seen 1 or 2 herbal test boosters that include it as part of a formula. The main actives are Polymethoxyflavanoids. https://www.avaplant.com/products/raw-material-herbal-products/black-ginger/
It has also been studied for its effects on physical fitness performance and muscular endurance by improving inflammation and energy metabolism. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4946221/
Protodioscin 40% or higher - most common source would be from tribulus but I don't see many reputable companies offering trib standardized for Protodioscin at 40% or higher.
I would also like to add a suggestion for the following:
Panax Notoginseng Extract (aka Tienchi Ginseng, aka 3,7 Ginseng) - This is a member of the Ginseng family and its effects are neutral compared to American Ginseng and Chinese/Korean Ginseng. It is helpful for performance, recovery and for balancing the body during stressful times. It has also been studied for its effects on physical fitness performance and muscular endurance by improving inflammation and energy metabolism. It also has PPAR effects. This could also be used solo or as part of a formula. To date I have not see any reputable company market a decent standardized extract of this product yet so I don't know what minimum level of standardization would be effective. Most companies just use ground up whole root or the companaies that do advertise an extract do not metion the level of standardization or the actives being standardized.
I appreciate your reply to my suggestions. Hopefully some of the ingredients I mentioned will make the cut or at least spark some interesting discussions that will bear fruit in some other way.
I like the idea but don't think it would translate into sales. And I really do like the idea; I had considered something like this for a long time but in the end figured it was something I myself would like to see more than the market would actually be willing to support/buy.Don't know how well it would sell but an absorption enhancer?!
maybe something like this:]
shilajit 50% fulvic acid=200mg
then maybe another ingredient to inhibit the p-GLycoprotein efflux pump. recently saw a post by @dsade about it
What would you (and everyone else) like to see in an Intra? I'm asking because the definition of intra to some is BCAA's, to some is EAA's, to some is aminos + Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin, etc.Intra workout
Thank you. With Ecdysterone, its more about finding quality raw materials when you honestly require quality raw materials to be willing to do the product. If did a small run, it would likely be a break even type thing to see if it would sell; but even at being willing to do that, its a matter of finding the quality raw materials to do it with. A lot of people don't realize that when you look at studies with things, these researchers many times have huge budgets to have the raw materials synthesized for them which may not translate into being practical to ever offer it as a supplement. I remember seeing a study one time (not ecdy) that if you actually translated the dosage used into a supplement cost, it would cost 60 dollars a day to use it lol.I appreciate the honest reply with your thoughts on this. It's definitely refreshing to see a supplement company taking the input of their consumers and seeing if they can produce a successful product out of it!
I understand completely why there is the hesitation. And I totally get the point that other companies who sell underdosed or bunk ecdy will still sell better based on the price point. You definitely are looking at a smaller market for these types of products and I am assuming they are too expensive to do smaller production runs.
Either way, whatever choices you guys' decide to make, I am still a huge fan of SNS and I LOVE the ongoing conversation going on regarding products
I love the throwback flavor ideas. Pez could be interesting although there were so many flavors of it. Fun dip I think has potential too. I love Bit O Honey but I'm not sure that would taste right in most supplements. I'd be open to trying to see if we could get it right though."Throwback" meaning back to the days/candies from our childhoods that were terrible for us but we loved for some reason but could likely hardly stomach today. Big league chew, milk duds, Bit O' Honey, Fun Dip, ring pops, PEZ!!!! oh man PEZ.
This is a tough one because its offered by so many companies like NOW Foods.Phosphatidylserine is on my list to experiment with too. Pricey though.
I'd possibly be open to this but the reverse side is that it puts the product in overall competition with herb companies like Natures Way and NOW Foods who make Olive Leaf Extract products. I feel like we could make one with better percentages but not sure how many people are familiar with it enough to know. Can you let me know what percentages you'd like to see?Olive Leaf Extract standardized for oleuropein and hydroxytyrosol
Thank you. I appreciate that.Agreed! I get excited when I see SNS has posted because it’s usually laid out well and respectful with solid reasons why something may not be viable.
I either learn about manufacturing practices (helps when looking at other companies) or some cool insight in ingredients.
I loved the Twizzlers that had the filling inside them. I was diagnosed allergic to gluten in 2011 and it sucked giving those up haha. They were my go to snack anytime I went to the movies. I still think its dumb that Twizzlers use gluten because there is no logical reason that they need to.That would be awesome if you could pull off that flavoring. Candy corn, circus peanuts and twizzlers were my favorites growing up.
It tastes pink, if that helps.I'm sold on the idea. I'll see if its a flavor that we can make taste good. It's one of those flavors that - Circus Peanuts taste like Circus Peanuts - so I'm going to have to look it up and see what the actual flavor breakdown is but definitely worth trying to figure out. I'm all about cool creative flavors and love the 80's throwback ideas.
"Though they're orange and look like a peanut, they taste like banana. And they are chewier than a traditional marshmallow. Even those who like circus peanuts can't agree whether they're better soft and fresh or stale and hard after sitting out for a week. "haha I was going to say they taste "orange" - as in the color, not the fruit ha
haha this is spot on... every kids debate was fresh or stale... i've always been the same way with peeps... can't decide"Though they're orange and look like a peanut, they taste like banana. And they are chewier than a traditional marshmallow. Even those who like circus peanuts can't agree whether they're better soft and fresh or stale and hard after sitting out for a week. "
natural anabolics not estro blockers just no cycle requaired ... safe anabolic compoundsThere have been multiple discussions going in different threads about the types of products that people would like to see from us as well as things that people would like to see us offer as single ingredients so I wanted to create a thread because we're very open to and interested in hearing peoples ideas.
Please feel free to share any idea for formulas, types of formulas, or single ingredient items that you'd like to see from us.
We look forward to hearing your ideas.
My original thought with this was to do orange since they were or maybe not even do any color at all."Though they're orange and look like a peanut, they taste like banana. And they are chewier than a traditional marshmallow. Even those who like circus peanuts can't agree whether they're better soft and fresh or stale and hard after sitting out for a week. "
Thanks for the heads up on ActiGin. It looks very interesting and if I had to choose between Black Ginger or Panax Notoginseng, I would definitely choose Panax Notoginseng.I will look more into the Black Ginger Root. Thank you for the information.
Panax Notoginseng - I've been really interested in ActiGin for quite some time.
To clarify, what I meant in terms of it being the same as the original AnaBeta is that if I remember correctly they didn't specify anything special about the type that they used so there's nothing really to try to exactly replicate if that makes sense. For example, if I say Olive Leaf and don't say the standardization, it would be hard for you to offer the exact same type Olive Leaf because you don't know what type I'm offering. And even if you knew my supplier, with this many years passing, the type that they offer themselves may be different.Thanks for the heads up on ActiGin. It looks very interesting and if I had to choose between Black Ginger or Panax Notoginseng, I would definitely choose Panax Notoginseng.
Back to the formula possibility, how about Anacyclus Pyrethrum + Cistanche + Panax Notoginseng + Spilanthes?
Also regarding which bulk extract of Anacyclus, since it was mentioned a few times that the original PES AnaBeta extract is likely not going to happen, how about the current extract being used OL Test1fy?
As he was joking about above, just because someone brings one out doesn't mean that there's a market for it. I'll use us for example - years ago when we put out PLCAR-500 it was because so many people were talking about it and you would have thought there would have been a market for it. We sold it at a low margin and could barely give it away.Uk brand strom sports recently released a absorption solo product
So there is a market for it..
I think it’s important to just determine what you really need/want in an intraworkout.[QUOTE="sns8778, post: 6238991, member: 14769]
What would you (and everyone else) like to see in an Intra? I'm asking because the definition of intra to some is BCAA's, to some is EAA's, to some is aminos + Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin, etc.
Cut some to save space but I pretty much agree with everything you said there. I workout 6 days a week so intras for me basically are daily use productsResolve10 - I didn't want to quote the full post because it was so long but thank you for the detailed response.
I for one appreciate you taking the time to explain in detail the complexities of formulating a new product that will hold up to the scrutiny of the knowledgeable people here at AM!!!Resolve10 - I didn't want to quote the full post because it was so long but thank you for the detailed response.
Intraworkouts are a category where people want and need different things so that's the challenge from a company perspective is to make a product that best suits the needs of the most people possible while not pricing yourself out of the market doing so.
- BCAA's and EAA's cover this well
- I do like 2:1:1 BCAA ratio.
- EAA's - I've been pleased with Amino9 myself; I went from BCAA's to trying Amino9 to now mixing Amino9 in with my BCAA's.
AstraGin - I could see adding that.
- Adding electrolytes is tricky from a company side because there are people that are going to use Intra's but also drink sports drinks during their workouts. There are also people that are still scared of high sodium and nothing you say/do is ever going to change that so for me, I think that using a moderate amount is key here.
Taurine - I think 1 to 2 grams is ideal because you may have to take into consideration people getting extra in their pre-workout if it contains it.
Betaine - I love Betaine but I'm not a fan of it in an intra because at too high of dosages it can hurt people's stomachs. It's not that there would be too high of a dose in an Intra, its that if their pre-workout had it and the intra had it, then that may would cause some issues.
Glutamine - I like Glutamine and think its underrated and gets a bad rep sometimes due to the fact that companies used to so overpromote it that nothing could live up to that; but that its a good solid ingredient. I do like Glutamine/Alanine combo. Sustamine is so expensive that it makes it almost impossible to use in a good solid overall formulation due to cost.
GlycerPump - I could see a small dose in an Intra although I personally would prefer it in a daily use supplement or a pre-workout myself; but as long as the dose wasn't ridiculous in the Intra I could see it.
ActiGin - I'm very interested in this but from what I've read it needs to be used daily for best results. I could see adding it in hopes it would help but I'm not sure that there would be any science based proof that it would without it being used daily. However, if being used daily in something else and then used in this on top of it, the extra amount could be great.
I prefer L-Ornithine L-Aspartate over L-Ornithine myself.
Carbs - from marketing standpoint, unfortunately most people don't understand the difference between carb sources and so many are anti-carb that it does make it a tough sell. For me personally, I like Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin pre/intra and then more HBCD post and maybe some dextrose depending on how I feel.
I think you'll be very please with LOLA as compared to regular Ornithine.Cut some to save space but I pretty much agree with everything you said there. I workout 6 days a week so intras for me basically are daily use products
I’ll agree the Taurine and Betaine dose is tough for me. I love them during, but man was trying to figure out the combo I wanted pre and during tough sometimes since they both appear in a lot now and not wanting to take a ton. Which again is why this would be ideal for “me” but from a company standpoint there’s prob a little bit that I’d understand being changed. Similar with the electrolytes, but I view my intro AS my sports drink so I want them in there. The mention of sodium does now make me realize maybe that’s why I seem to wish there was more, it’s because companies know it’s like a boogeyman (so again I learned something today haha).
I need to grab some LOLA I saw SNS had it so when I run out of my current ornithine I may pick it up.
Thank you. I appreciate it. There's a lot more that goes into it than many people think.I for one appreciate you taking the time to explain in detail the complexities of formulating a new product that will hold up to the scrutiny of the knowledgeable people here at AM!!!
it's easy to see why many companies copy proven formulas from other companies...keep up the great work steve!!!
the upgrade to focus xt is a great example. although I require a much heavier stim as a pre workout to get started in the morning, focus xt is a great midafternoon pickerupper-and if used regularly helps clarify my thought process and memory, and trust me I need all the help I can get!!!I think you'll be very please with LOLA as compared to regular Ornithine.
Thank you. I appreciate it. There's a lot more that goes into it than many people think.
LOLA specific or just ornithine overall? Doesn’t apply to me specifically but always willing to learn more.
Im a shift worker myself (1am here, still at work haha).Oh really. This is a serious issue for me to the point that I’m getting depressed big time and I hate when people say there depressed . I will look into this now.
Thanks!Randomised controlled trial of the effects of L-ornithine on stress markers and sleep quality in healthy workers
A randomized, double-masked, placebo-controlled crossover trial on the effects of L-ornithine on salivary cortisol and feelings of fatigue of flushers the morning after alcohol consumption
And so on. Mix of both l ornithine and its more stable brother, LOLA.
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