Unanswered What Supplements Induce Dietary Ketosis? Do They Work?

ucimigrate

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Hi Everyone,

I have tried low-carb or even no carb diets in the past, and they have failed miserably.

It takes me six days of zero carbohydrates to reach ketosis, using Keto Strips. I have tried this several times in recent years, and the result is the same.

1. I know people advertise keto salts, etc. Do they actually help induce ketosis faster, or simply show up in the blood and urine easier?

2. Any other areas?

I have just given up and use a low fat diet to lose weight.
 

Ot2000

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No supplements induce dietary ketosis. Hence why it’s called dietary ketosis.

The diet you posted is not a keto diet. It’s just a bunch of protein with some sprinkled in fat and a poor one at that.

You need a ton more fat.
 
HIT4ME

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Hi Guys,

To me, again, the real perplexing thing is that I could not enter ketosis. My high school trainer claimed this diet worked for hundreds of people so rapidly. But, it did nothing for me.

Even when I followed the diet strictly, had huge amounts of fatigue, etc. Within two weeks, of eating a maintenance diet, I gained all the weight back. I cannot believe it, as others swore they lost so much fat with no fatigue.

1. The first phase was supposed to be 3 days of low-carbs, one day high carbs. I was skeptical that it would actually induce ketosis, but my trainer insisted:

Morning: 2 Egg Whites + 2 Whole Eggs, 1 Cup Fresh Fruit

Morning Snack: 1/2 Cup Raw Nuts

Lunch: 1 Cup Cooked Brown Rice, 4 OZ lean Chicken Breast

Afternoon Snack: 1/2 Cup Nuts

Dinner: Vegetables with Olive Oil, 4 Oz Lean Meat

In retrospect, I agree my trainer did not know what he was talking about. When questioned, his reasoning did not make sense. He even said that if I were to eat a fatty fish like salmon, do not eat the nuts. The extra lipids would stop the process of ketosis. Again, in retrospect, he seems like he does not know what he was talking about, despite being a trainer for 30 years.

2. That diet did not work at all. So, I switched to a zero carb diet to see if I could actually reach ketosis.

That was:

4 Eggs in the Morning

Mid-Morning: Chicken Breast with 1 Spoonful of Flaxseed Oil

Lunch: Chicken Breast and 2 Two Spoonfuls of Flaxseed Oil

Afternoon: Chicken With Flaxseed Oil as a side

Dinner: Chicken with Flaxseed Oil as a side

As you can see, there are zero carbs. The protein was only moderate.

The fatigue felt terrible. I felt like I had zero energy.

It took six days to get into ketosis using Keto Urine Strips.

It really had no results.

3. My trainer was speechless. He had never seen a person where this has happened to.

He had so many stories of people who lost so much weight so rapidly, with little fatigue.

4. In years since, I have tried from time to time. However, if I do not eat carbs every two hours, I just feel so fatigued and unhappy. To me, the low-fat diet has always worked better.

5. Can anyone tell me what to do?
Again, what is your % bodyfat and have you ever been over 30%?

Do this, do this, do that, do this - you can follow all the advice if you like. Anything will work if the basics are covered and nothing will work if the basics are not covered.

If you are trying to lose weight, only 2 things matter (at least from the perspective of pure fat loss and not necessarily health):

1. Caloric intake.
2. Protein intake.

You laid out a plan, which makes me think you are putting some effort into this - how much chicken? Are you weighing and logging your food?

You also avoid some of the important questions others have asked - like "Why do you want to get into ketosis"?

If your trainer has been doing this for 30 years, he/she shouldn't be dumbfounded here. There are only a handful of possible issues here. And don't get me wrong - I understand your pain. Getting into ketosis is NOT my thing. It takes me a long time to do it and I knock myself out very easily and I think I understand some reasons for this - but they certainly have not been the death nell to my fat loss ambitions.

As others have mentioned - too much protein will also knock you out of ketosis. If you really want to get into ketosis, up the fats (Flax is worthless, eat fats whenever possible and if you don't eat fatty fish, use fish oil for about 5-10 grams/day), keep the protein moderate, eat in a caloric deficit. A keto diet is not like a bodybuilding bulking diet where you want to eat 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Honestly, IMO, 0.5 grams per pound of bodyweight is probably enough.
 
hairygrandpa

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I bet my both nuts, that the "no carb time frame" is in direct correlation with strenuous exercise and glycogen spending.
With other words, you don't take your workouts seriously.
There are laws in this universe, no genetic predisposition beats thermodynamics
Prove me wrong.

The other possible error is:
You don't follow a ketogenic diet -but a high protein diet, meaning:
Even if you go zero carbs:
Instead of consuming enough fats for energy, you consume protein. The body is capable to retrieve glycogen from protein = no ketosis.
 
Resolve10

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I think you should just shift your mind frame.

Why do you want to achieve Ketosis? Is it fat loss?

If it is for fat loss then just realize you don’t have to be in ketosis to lose fat. So then just put your focus more towards other things then just on trying to achieve Ketosis.
 
ValiantThor08

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I bet my both nuts, that the "no carb time frame" is in direct correlation with strenuous exercise and glycogen spending.
With other words, you don't take your workouts seriously.
There are laws in this universe, no genetic predisposition beats thermodynamics
Prove me wrong.

The other possible error is:
You don't follow a ketogenic diet -but a high protein diet, meaning:
Even if you go zero carbs:
Instead of consuming enough fats for energy, you consume protein. The body is capable to retrieve glycogen from protein = no ketosis.
I would agree with OP not burning through glycogen. Because I can have 4 to 5 slices of pizza for dinner, a soda, and the next day be producing ketones, tested through a blood test. The urine strips aren't the best gauge.
 
ValiantThor08

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And not supplement will induce ketosis. You can take ketone salts, but that will not put you into dietary ketosis. Expending your liver glycogen stores will, and definitely if you go through all of your muscle glycogen.
 
HIT4ME

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Hi Everyone,

I have tried low-carb or even no carb diets in the past, and they have failed miserably.

It takes me six days of zero carbohydrates to reach ketosis, using Keto Strips. I have tried this several times in recent years, and the result is the same.

1. I know people advertise keto salts, etc. Do they actually help induce ketosis faster, or simply show up in the blood and urine easier?

2. Any other areas?

I have just given up and use a low fat diet to lose weight.
What % bodyfat are you? Have you ever been higher than 30-40%?

Fat people burn fat more efficiently, and carbs less efficiently. Ketosis creates this same situation. Your body may literally have down regulated glycogen usage.
 

ucimigrate

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I would agree with OP not burning through glycogen. Because I can have 4 to 5 slices of pizza for dinner, a soda, and the next day be producing ketones, tested through a blood test. The urine strips aren't the best gauge.
How do you use a blood test for Ketosis? Do you have a medical lab access or something?

Is there any way I can do what you do, to have a more accurate measure?
 

ucimigrate

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Hi Guys,

To me, again, the real perplexing thing is that I could not enter ketosis. My high school trainer claimed this diet worked for hundreds of people so rapidly. But, it did nothing for me.

Even when I followed the diet strictly, had huge amounts of fatigue, etc. Within two weeks, of eating a maintenance diet, I gained all the weight back. I cannot believe it, as others swore they lost so much fat with no fatigue.

1. The first phase was supposed to be 3 days of low-carbs, one day high carbs. I was skeptical that it would actually induce ketosis, but my trainer insisted:

Morning: 2 Egg Whites + 2 Whole Eggs, 1 Cup Fresh Fruit

Morning Snack: 1/2 Cup Raw Nuts

Lunch: 1 Cup Cooked Brown Rice, 4 OZ lean Chicken Breast

Afternoon Snack: 1/2 Cup Nuts

Dinner: Vegetables with Olive Oil, 4 Oz Lean Meat

In retrospect, I agree my trainer did not know what he was talking about. When questioned, his reasoning did not make sense. He even said that if I were to eat a fatty fish like salmon, do not eat the nuts. The extra lipids would stop the process of ketosis. Again, in retrospect, he seems like he does not know what he was talking about, despite being a trainer for 30 years.

2. That diet did not work at all. So, I switched to a zero carb diet to see if I could actually reach ketosis.

That was:

4 Eggs in the Morning

Mid-Morning: Chicken Breast with 1 Spoonful of Flaxseed Oil

Lunch: Chicken Breast and 2 Two Spoonfuls of Flaxseed Oil

Afternoon: Chicken With Flaxseed Oil as a side

Dinner: Chicken with Flaxseed Oil as a side

As you can see, there are zero carbs. The protein was only moderate.

The fatigue felt terrible. I felt like I had zero energy.

It took six days to get into ketosis using Keto Urine Strips.

It really had no results.

3. My trainer was speechless. He had never seen a person where this has happened to.

He had so many stories of people who lost so much weight so rapidly, with little fatigue.

4. In years since, I have tried from time to time. However, if I do not eat carbs every two hours, I just feel so fatigued and unhappy. To me, the low-fat diet has always worked better.

5. Can anyone tell me what to do?
 
Resolve10

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If a low fat diet makes you feel better and gives you results then stop beating your head against a wall and just use a lower fat/moderate carb diet while remaining in a deficit to lose weight.

I will say that zero carb diet just looked horrible and super unstable from both a low caloric intake and lack of variety.
 
ValiantThor08

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How do you use a blood test for Ketosis? Do you have a medical lab access or something?

Is there any way I can do what you do, to have a more accurate measure?
I use ketomojo ketone meter. You can buy off the internet. Pretty affordable. You use it like a glucose blood meter. The only way you would not be able to produce ketones would mean you have a defective liver. You probably produced ketones, just at a very low level that a urine test would not detect.
 
Cheeky Monkey

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Try cyclical carb diet. Have a high carb day( bodyweight x 2 = Carb grams), then mid carb day (bodyweight x 1 = carb grams), then low carb day (bodyweight x 0.5 = Carb grams) and then repeat.
 
hairygrandpa

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4. In years since, I have tried from time to time. However, if I do not eat carbs every two hours, I just feel so fatigued and unhappy. To me, the low-fat diet has always worked better.
A couple spoons of Flaxseed oil as your stand alone source for fat? :rolleyes:

Point 4. is what has my red light blinking.

My rude self would say: Puts happiness from food above dietary goal. Lack of self control/discipline, looking for excuses to eat carbs, justifying it with supposed fatigue.
Luckily, my rude self isn't here at the moment.

As others said, why ketogenic diet? Just eat half and move double, that works for some time. If you don't change "point 4", intermittent fasting is also no option, that would be what I recommend -and prefer.
 
hairygrandpa

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I just mean potential ingredients. It was mostly a joke. They would work by screwing up fundamental pathways of metabolism.
Wouldn't discuss that in length. We both know, there is no easy way out. If OP wants to get into ketosis, he has to eat WAY more FAT -period. Have you looked at his diet?
 
hairygrandpa

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No supplements induce dietary ketosis. Hence why it’s called dietary ketosis.

The diet you posted is not a keto diet. It’s just a bunch of protein with some sprinkled in fat and a poor one at that.

You need a ton more fat.
Exactly. His trainer must be moron.
 
HIT4ME

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No supplements induce dietary ketosis. Hence why it’s called dietary ketosis.

The diet you posted is not a keto diet. It’s just a bunch of protein with some sprinkled in fat and a poor one at that.

You need a ton more fat.
I actually think it may be possible to speed it up...how much? Not sure. The ideas I have in my head are very theoretical - but how about this for crazy? I bet apple cider vinegar with a low carb diet will help deplete glycogen stores. I hate saying it because of all the ACV zealots out there already.
 

Jeremyk1

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Exactly. His trainer must be moron.
Wholeheartedly agree. That guy has no clue what he’s talking about.

Fat is essential to ketosis, it will not knock you out of ketosis. Fruits and rice have no place in a keto diet.

Seriously, if you want to try keto, you need more fat. A lot more. I mean like way more fat than protein in your diet.
 
ValiantThor08

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No supplements induce dietary ketosis. Hence why it’s called dietary ketosis.

The diet you posted is not a keto diet. It’s just a bunch of protein with some sprinkled in fat and a poor one at that.

You need a ton more fat.
If he is over fat, he could get away with consuming very minimal fat compared to protein. Due to his own fat reserves being a more than sufficient source. This is if he is overly fat of course.
 

Irishobrien

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1) Phlorizin - makes you urinate out glucose. Requires >1gram to work well. Patrick Arnold sells it. Probable enhanced bioavailability with piperine.
2) White kidney bean extract
3) White mulberry extract
 

Irishobrien

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Also berberine likely diminishes carbohydrate absorption from the gut as well as it’s more known mechanisms after it reaches serum. It also hinders glycogen breakdown in the liver which can expedite ketosis.
 
hairygrandpa

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I doubt that lowering blood sugar is a feasible way to ketosis. I'm sure it leads to Hypoglycemia.
Personally, I first would go on a ketogenic diet before asking for additional ways to get into ketosis.
 

Ot2000

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I actually think it may be possible to speed it up...how much? Not sure. The ideas I have in my head are very theoretical - but how about this for crazy? I bet apple cider vinegar with a low carb diet will help deplete glycogen stores. I hate saying it because of all the ACV zealots out there already.
While I don’t recommend this, you can speed it up by consuming liquor. Whiskey, rum, vodka etc. Cant have mixers with carbs etc but it would work as long as you’re on the diet and not consuming carbs.
 
Raw Dog

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Hi Guys,

To me, again, the real perplexing thing is that I could not enter ketosis. My high school trainer claimed this diet worked for hundreds of people so rapidly. But, it did nothing for me.

Even when I followed the diet strictly, had huge amounts of fatigue, etc. Within two weeks, of eating a maintenance diet, I gained all the weight back. I cannot believe it, as others swore they lost so much fat with no fatigue.

1. The first phase was supposed to be 3 days of low-carbs, one day high carbs. I was skeptical that it would actually induce ketosis, but my trainer insisted:

Morning: 2 Egg Whites + 2 Whole Eggs, 1 Cup Fresh Fruit

Morning Snack: 1/2 Cup Raw Nuts

Lunch: 1 Cup Cooked Brown Rice, 4 OZ lean Chicken Breast

Afternoon Snack: 1/2 Cup Nuts

Dinner: Vegetables with Olive Oil, 4 Oz Lean Meat

In retrospect, I agree my trainer did not know what he was talking about. When questioned, his reasoning did not make sense. He even said that if I were to eat a fatty fish like salmon, do not eat the nuts. The extra lipids would stop the process of ketosis. Again, in retrospect, he seems like he does not know what he was talking about, despite being a trainer for 30 years.

2. That diet did not work at all. So, I switched to a zero carb diet to see if I could actually reach ketosis.

That was:

4 Eggs in the Morning

Mid-Morning: Chicken Breast with 1 Spoonful of Flaxseed Oil

Lunch: Chicken Breast and 2 Two Spoonfuls of Flaxseed Oil

Afternoon: Chicken With Flaxseed Oil as a side

Dinner: Chicken with Flaxseed Oil as a side

As you can see, there are zero carbs. The protein was only moderate.

The fatigue felt terrible. I felt like I had zero energy.

It took six days to get into ketosis using Keto Urine Strips.

It really had no results.

3. My trainer was speechless. He had never seen a person where this has happened to.

He had so many stories of people who lost so much weight so rapidly, with little fatigue.

4. In years since, I have tried from time to time. However, if I do not eat carbs every two hours, I just feel so fatigued and unhappy. To me, the low-fat diet has always worked better.

5. Can anyone tell me what to do?
1 - this diet is in no way even possibly close to keto. Rice??? No go. What kind of nuts? Regardless of what kind a cup is way too much. Pecans and macadamia are safe to eat a few of, I avoid any others due to high net carb content but even these two will have a fair amount.

2 - saturated fat and not enough fat in general to feel good. If you’re doing keto DITCH THE LEAN MEATS. If you love chicken, get thighs. I have been doing keto for awhile though and fatty cuts of beef are the basis of my diet. I eat at least 1lb of ribeye, chuck eye, chuck roast, or high fat ground beef almost every day.

3 - I probably wouldn’t take nutritional advice from a trainer

4 - this suggests a very unhealthy relationship with carbs and food in general, this is not normal. If you can stick out doing keto the right way, or even better IF/extended fasts I truly believe you will learn a lot about yourself in the process and be grateful that you did

5 - eat more saturated fat and give it another go. Fatty beef, eggs, bacon, sausage, cheese, butter. All of these are great keto foods.

I’d also really recommend giving IF a try. First 2-3 days kind of suck. The cheat I give to beginners is to use sugar free jello throughout the day to get yourself through the first few days if you need to. As long as you aren’t going overboard the calories are negligible and it will keep you full
 
DaeshDontSurf

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get blood ketone meter - eat nothing but cream cheese and *some* full fat beef for a couple days, while do full body workouts = ketosis. then create proper keto diet of most fat, try to zero carb, and if unfortunate gluconeogenesis person - low protein (under 100, maybe down to 50 - meter will tell).

oh, and must be in same deficit as any, to lose fat.
oh, and keto no better than any else if deficit is equal.

keto supp that say = ketosis are liars, don't buy product and warn others. only provide energy from *exogenous* ketone.

i agree with above - just do i.f. with normal macro diet in deficit. just eat enough carb to fuel workouts with high protein (2.4g/kg) and have best healthy approach (micronutrients).
 

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