westside training

[glenihan]

well my buddy ivydude convinced me to try westside training with him and i agreed because i've been using the same routine for a while and figured change would be good .. so despite my loathing of all you fatty PLers i decided to give it a go

today was my first day .. ME lower body .. holy fucking **** i can't move right now .. this should be a .. fun 10 weeks

 

[Enigma76]

I'm really lookin to get into WSB training, but I'm kind of compiling different ideas for lifts (I dont competitive PL, and dont have a real need for all the lockout work for example that alot of the WSB programs out there have).

I would be much obliged if you could post up your split, as I feel that your (possibly different) split would better reflect my goals.

That is, unless you decided to competitively PL all of a sudden :run:

 

[Beelzebub]

it'll be fun glen. i started up a DC routine about 3 weeks ago and it's been nothing but shits and giggles since then.

 

[ivydude]

Thank god working out was the only I had to do today...

The split is fairly traditional westside:
ME LB, off, ME Bench, off, DE LB, off, DE bench, off, repeat. Max effort exercises are rotated every week and we're using wave periodization on dynamic days (3 weeks-5-10% increase/week). Assistance exercises are rotated every 3-4 sessions to gauge progress. The volume of the workouts changes each week to prevent overtraining. This is how we have it set-up:

Week 1: high
Week 2: medium
Week 3: very high
Week 4: low
...then repeat

IMO you should design your program to address your weaknesses. So if lockouts are a strength of yours you wouldn't use a 4 board press very often. Our program hits the tris, hams, and back hard. I hope this helps.

 

[ivydude]

it'll be fun glen. i started up a DC routine about 3 weeks ago and it's been nothing but shits and giggles since then.

I told Glen it would be fun too. His response, "Yeah, it'll be fun when the 10 weeks are over."

 

[glenihan]

i'm hobbled today .. i hate you

 

[Beelzebub]

i'm a hobbit today .. i hate you

but glen, you're a hobbit everyday......:blink:

 

[glenihan]

beelz .. i just plain hate you

edit: .. that was actually pretty funny .. but still .. f you

 

[Beelzebub]

you say 'hate', i hear 'love'.

 

[Rostam]

you say 'hate', i hear 'love'.

:rofl: Nice one.

 

[glenihan]

well had ME upper body today with a 3 board press .. my bench sucks .. ivydude rocked it hard today though

these weirdo PLer things are killing me .. but i'm loving the workouts so far

 

[Beelzebub]

never could get into the board presses. has your form changed yet? arched back, elbows in, etc.?

 

[ivydude]

Good workout today on the 3 board. We worked pretty quick (about an hour) and also did:

BB Rows 3 x 6-10
Floor Skullcrushers 3 x 6-12
Preacher Curl 3 x 6-8
Prehab RC Work 3 x12

Also since Glen is a BBer at heart, I don't think he'll be changing his form on bench. It probably doesn't make sense in the long run although it would be more effective presently.

 

[glenihan]

yeah what ivydude said

i haven't changed my form and don't plan on it .. it would definitely help me put up more weight but considering my goals i don't really think i should bother

 

[Beelzebub]

i hear ya, just curious. fwiw though, i'm starting to believe it's safer on pec-delt tie-ins to change to an elbows in form. seen it happen too many times (on myself twice) where flared elbows will only take you so far before an injury happens. another buddy of mine fucked himself up this week going for 385. he had the same ol' elbows out position that we all learned in high school. and he's no small boy either, ~290lbs, big-boy genetics.

 

[glenihan]

hmm interesting beelze .. something to take into consideration

 

[ivydude]

This Dave Tate Article is a good one on PLing bench form

http://www.criticalbench.com/benchpressarticles8.htm

Here are a few notable exercepts:


2 – Keep your shoulder blades pulled together and tight.
This is a very important and often overlooked aspect of great bench pressing. While pressing you have to create the most stable environment possible. This can't be done if most of your shoulder blades are off the bench. The bench is only so wide and we can't change this, but we can change how we position ourselves on the bench.
When you pull your shoulder blades together you're creating a tighter, more stable surface from which to press. This is because more of your body is in contact with the bench. The tightness of your upper back also contributes. These techniques also change the distance the bar will have to travel. The key to pressing big weight is to press the shortest distance possible.
3 – Keep the pressure on your upper back and traps.
This is another misunderstood aspect of pressing. You want the pressure around the supporting muscles. This is accomplished by driving your feet into the floor, thereby driving your body into the bench. Try this: Lie on the bench and line up so your eyes are four inches in front of the bar (toward your feet). Now using your legs, drive yourself into the bench to put pressure on the upper back and traps. Your eyes should now be even with the bar. This is the same pressure that needs to be applied while pushing the barbell.

5 – Keep the elbows tucked and the bar directly over the wrists and elbows.
This is probably the most important aspect of great pressing technique. The elbows must remain tucked to keep the bar in a straight line as explained above. Keeping the elbows tucked will also allow lifters to use their lats to drive the bar off the chest. Football players are taught to drive their opponents with their elbows tucked, then explode through. This is the same for bench pressing. Bench pressing is all about generating force. You can generate far more force with your elbows in a tucked position compared to an "elbows out" position.
The most important aspect of this is to keep the barbell in a direct line with the elbow. If the barbell is behind the elbow toward the head, then the arm position becomes similar to an extension, not a press.

 

[Enigma76]

Could u WSB vets look this split over for me real quick?

Mon
ME Bench (rotate between flat/incline every 3 weeks) work up to 1-3rm
Close Grip Bench 4x6-8
Pullup 4x5
Overhead Press 3x8
Skull Crush 3x8

Wed
ME Legs (rotate back squat/deadlift)
RDL 4x8
Decline Weighted Abs 3x10
Oblique DB side bends 3x10

Friday
DE Bench 8x3, 50-60%1rm (do 50/55/60 and then repeat) 45-60sec rest
Flat Bench 4x8 rest paused, slow negative
Shoulder Front/Side Raises 3x8
BB Rows 4x5
Dips 3x10

Sunday
Spd Squat 10x2, 55-65% 1rm, 60sec rest
Spd Dead 8x1, 55-65% 1rm, 45sec rest
Zercher Squat 4x8
Decline Weighted Abs 3x10
Oblique DB Side Bends 3x10


I feel like the upper body days have too much volume and the lower body days dont have enough, but I dotn know how to split them up...move back to leg days?

I also dont have bicepts in there anywhere...where should I throw them in?

I threw Zercher squats in there (did those the other day, really liked them) cuz I really dont like front squatting...and the zercher form works the quads nice.

My plan was to do hamstring dominant exercise on the ME leg day (RDLs) and more quad dominant on the speed day (zerchers).


Does this look good? Too much volume? Any input welcome.

 

[Beelzebub]

another two torn pecs recently read about on the board from flat bench. lift safe bruddas.

 

[ivydude]

Could u WSB vets look this split over for me real quick?

Mon
ME Bench (rotate between flat/incline every 3 weeks) work up to 1-3rm
Close Grip Bench 4x6-8
Pullup 4x5
Overhead Press 3x8
Skull Crush 3x8

Wed
ME Legs (rotate back squat/deadlift)
RDL 4x8
Decline Weighted Abs 3x10
Oblique DB side bends 3x10

Friday
DE Bench 8x3, 50-60%1rm (do 50/55/60 and then repeat) 45-60sec rest
Flat Bench 4x8 rest paused, slow negative
Shoulder Front/Side Raises 3x8
BB Rows 4x5
Dips 3x10

Sunday
Spd Squat 10x2, 55-65% 1rm, 60sec rest
Spd Dead 8x1, 55-65% 1rm, 45sec rest
Zercher Squat 4x8
Decline Weighted Abs 3x10
Oblique DB Side Bends 3x10


I feel like the upper body days have too much volume and the lower body days dont have enough, but I dotn know how to split them up...move back to leg days?

I also dont have bicepts in there anywhere...where should I throw them in?

I threw Zercher squats in there (did those the other day, really liked them) cuz I really dont like front squatting...and the zercher form works the quads nice.

My plan was to do hamstring dominant exercise on the ME leg day (RDLs) and more quad dominant on the speed day (zerchers).


Does this look good? Too much volume? Any input welcome.

I had the nicest post written in response to this and the page closed on me so I’ll try and give an abridged version:

1. Add in more variation on ME Bench days. Use incline sparingly. Depending on the weakpoint on your bench do the following-floor press if it’s the lower range, rack lockouts if it’s at the top, or 2, 3, or 4 board press in the middle.

2. If you want to improve your bench, don’t do pull-ups. Do another horizontal row exercise ( BB, DB, chest-supported, lying on a bench, cables, etc.)

3. I think 4 sets per assistance exercise might be too much (3 is better), but if you only respond to that kind of volume go for it.


4. Rotate the assistance exercises every 3-4 sessions.

5. On ME LB days, incorporate good mornings. Definitely do power arched and conventional and if you can do them out of chains or with different types of bars, add this in. 2/3 of ME LB days should be a variation of this.

6. If you can do glute ham raises or reverse hypers, do them. They are huge. You can do an improvised GHR on a seated calve machine. Think about it for a sec… You can also do them on the floor if you have someone to hold your legs. If you’ve got any ideas to improvise a reverse hyper please let me know.

7. You want deadlift variation in your program. On DE LB days, immediately after your DE squat do some DL variation, i.e. speed pulls at 65%, SLDLs, SLDLs from a deficit. Do each for 3-4 sessions and rotate.

8. What’s a RDL? Regular dead lift?

9. Why are you doing flat bench with a slow negative on dynamic bench day?

10. Zerchers are better for strongman than PLing. That said if you can get enough weight to hit your legs where your arms aren’t about to fall off, go for it.

11. If you need more exercises on LB days look to 1 legged squats, set-ups and BB lunges.

12. Consider buying bands from jump stretch for dynamic bench day.

I hope this helps.

 

[Beelzebub]

RDL = romanian deadlift

 

[ivydude]

RDL = romanian deadlift

ah..good call

 

[Enigma76]

I had the nicest post written in response to this and the page closed on me so I’ll try and give an abridged version:

1. Add in more variation on ME Bench days. Use incline sparingly. Depending on the weakpoint on your bench do the following-floor press if it’s the lower range, rack lockouts if it’s at the top, or 2, 3, or 4 board press in the middle.

2. If you want to improve your bench, don’t do pull-ups. Do another horizontal row exercise ( BB, DB, chest-supported, lying on a bench, cables, etc.)

3. I think 4 sets per assistance exercise might be too much (3 is better), but if you only respond to that kind of volume go for it.


4. Rotate the assistance exercises every 3-4 sessions.

5. On ME LB days, incorporate good mornings. Definitely do power arched and conventional and if you can do them out of chains or with different types of bars, add this in. 2/3 of ME LB days should be a variation of this.

6. If you can do glute ham raises or reverse hypers, do them. They are huge. You can do an improvised GHR on a seated calve machine. Think about it for a sec… You can also do them on the floor if you have someone to hold your legs. If you’ve got any ideas to improvise a reverse hyper please let me know.

7. You want deadlift variation in your program. On DE LB days, immediately after your DE squat do some DL variation, i.e. speed pulls at 65%, SLDLs, SLDLs from a deficit. Do each for 3-4 sessions and rotate.

8. What’s a RDL? Regular dead lift?

9. Why are you doing flat bench with a slow negative on dynamic bench day?

10. Zerchers are better for strongman than PLing. That said if you can get enough weight to hit your legs where your arms aren’t about to fall off, go for it.

11. If you need more exercises on LB days look to 1 legged squats, set-ups and BB lunges.

12. Consider buying bands from jump stretch for dynamic bench day.

I hope this helps.

Sweet, this is exactly what I was hoping someone would do.

To address some points.

1. Will do...I'm actually trying to stay away from incline as I've got some shoulder problems, but I didnt really know what else to throw in. My weak point is definately getting the bar out of the hole so to speak, so the bottom.

2. Ill put in BB Row/Chest assisted Row for the 2 lat days. Could someone maybe explain alitle farther why doing pullups is bad for bench?

6. I can definately do weighted reverse hypers.

8. RDL = romanian deadlift like beelz said. Kind of like a SLDL but with knees slightly bent. Lots of emphasis on the hamstrings/glutes.

9. I have no idea. I just feel like I'm not getting enough chest work on DE day, and I feel that when I do flat bench with slow negative and rest paused, I can target my pecs better without having them overshadowed. If I wasnt to do this, what should I throw in?

10. I kind of figured this...my arms will be the weak point. Since I started them a couple days ago, I noticed that they targeted my quads/glutes and really really my abs much more than I thought they would. I also am more easily able to get ATG. I dunno, just threw them in for some variation.

11. Thanks for the extra leg exercises, for some reason they hadnt even crossed my mind when I was trying to lay this out.

Thanks again Ivy!

 

[ivydude]

2. Ill put in BB Row/Chest assisted Row for the 2 lat days. Could someone maybe explain alitle farther why doing pullups is bad for bench?

quote]

Horizontal rowing is encouraged because it works the lats in the same plane of motion as the bench press. The lats are one of the most important and often overlooked muscles on bench. When you pinch your shoulderblades together and squeeze your lats on the bench they form the base of the press. The stronger your lats are the better bar placement/control/drive you will have on your bench.

 

[Enigma76]

2. Ill put in BB Row/Chest assisted Row for the 2 lat days. Could someone maybe explain alitle farther why doing pullups is bad for bench?

quote]

Horizontal rowing is encouraged because it works the lats in the same plane of motion as the bench press. The lats are one of the most important and often overlooked muscles on bench. When you pinch your shoulderblades together and squeeze your lats on the bench they form the base of the press. The stronger your lats are the better bar placement/control/drive you will have on your bench.

Aha, thanks for clearing that up! I kind of figured it was something along those lines.

Did ME Chest today...really liked the workout, but missed my max of last week...very pissed off, but should be ready to go again next week.

 

[glenihan]

dynamic workouts don't suck as much .. but they still kinda suck and i fucking hate lunges

 

[ivydude]

Great Day of GPP

Had one of my best recoveries ever after a ME LB day on our very high volume week. We did 7 sets of box squats (3 and 1 rep), 3 sets of 1 legged squats (8-10 reps leg), 4 sets of GHRs (6-8 reps), and abs. I thought I would be sore as hell the next day, but I had minimal soreness and I would attribute most of it to the GPP work I did. After my workout I ran home from the gym (took about 8 minutes). Later on at night, about 12 hours later, I went for about a 17 minute run. The next day (yesterday) I woke up with minimal soreness. I thought it might get worse today, but it's even better. I really believe it's all about the increased blood flow that expedited my recovery. To anyone suffering from severe DOMS they may want to consider some variation of this.

 

[glenihan]

my soreness hasn't been nearly as bad since we started .. i think i'm just getting used to the routine though .. because my GPP isn't all that good at this point haha .. and we all know my rule about cardio while bulking .. (its a huge no no )

 

[ivydude]

It's not really for cardio purposes....just to get the blood to the muscle to recover quicker.

Get your ass better.