Unanswered Var or winny??

[CroLifter]

@Mathb33 it looks like the day after 100mg of Test I came in at 551 TT. I do injections Monday and Thursday.

That is really low. You metabolize test in a strange way.

 

[Brain5ick]

That is really low. You metabolize test in a strange way.

Yeah that’s always been an odd issue of mine, I think I made a post about it or briefly touched on the topic at some point. 80mg had me at 400ng and 400mg can get me around 2,100ng though. I guess that’s accurate for the dosing.

 

[CroLifter]

Yeah that’s always been an odd issue of mine, I think I made a post about it or briefly touched on the topic at some point. 80mg had me at 400ng and 400mg can get me around 2,100ng though. I guess that’s accurate for the dosing.

2100 ng/dl sounds about right for 400mg.

@Matthersby how come you speak so low of sarms? Bad experience?

It seems that general consensus around here is that they are as toxic as steroids, which should definitely not be the case.

Lgd has studies proving it to be effective at 1mg, adding over 1kg of lean mass in 21 days.

The safety, pharmacokinetics, and effects of LGD-4033, a novel nonsteroidal oral, selective androgen receptor modulator, in healthy young men - PubMed

LGD-4033 was safe, had favorable pharmacokinetic profile, and increased lean body mass even during this short period without change in prostate-specific antigen. Longer randomized trials should evaluate its efficacy in improving physical function and health outcomes in select populations.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I am actually looking more and more into them lately, as they should have less of an impact on cardiovascular system (as in running a lower test dose alongside sarms instead of just running flat out 500mg test)

you firmly stand by the fact that op wouldnt be better served by the addition of a sarm instead of an oral like var? (Just asking, not being pretentious)

 

[MrKleen73]

Many SARMS never made it to the human phase of testing due to side effects... we use them now to grow faster... Steroids are definitely going to be the safer option in most cases. Only a few do not have many side effects but they are the same ones that don't have much of an effect either like Osta...

People are just soothed into feeling safer with them because they were designed to be safer than steroids, but the ones that weren't brought even to human testing didn't make it because of being ineffective or considered a risk for some reason that pharma companies weren't willing to keep spending money on the research. OG Gear over SARMS all day for safety... IMHO

 

[CroLifter]

Many SARMS never made it to the human phase of testing due to side effects... we use them now to grow faster... Steroids are definitely going to be the safer option in most cases. Only a few do not have many side effects but they are the same ones that don't have much of an effect either like Osta...

People are just soothed into feeling safer with them because they were designed to be safer than steroids, but the ones that weren't brought even to human testing didn't make it because of being ineffective or considered a risk for some reason that pharma companies weren't willing to keep spending money on the research. OG Gear over SARMS all day for safety... IMHO

I agree though that since op is getting his gear from a pharmacy it should be a safer option.

But i think osta, lgd and mk677(all very different of course, i am not suggesting op use mk677 in place of var lol) are all legit options, they all made it to the human trials and no adverse effects were noted.

And yeah, as you say, people are looking for the holy grail, "the safer option".
500mg test was unfortunately doing something to my heart that i didnt like (would slow down suddenly at rest and beat at ~25 bpm for few seconds).

It is crazy that in year 2019 we still only have and are forced to use these harsh systemic drugs with all these real bad side effects (AAS) and that no safer alternative has been invented, even though there is a HUUUUUGE market for it.



That is why in another thread i theorized about a substance which would act towards cardiac androgen receptor just like nolva acts towards estrogen receptor in breast tissue - it would attach to the AR in the heart muscle and prevent androgens from attaching themselves.

Because the biggest issue with steroids in my opinion is their direct effect on the cardiac remodelling. To an extent, we can control the other cardiovascular side effects (bp, cholesterol rbc count, blood clotting - all of these can be managed) by using other drugs, diet and lifestyle, not choosing to use harsh compounds, keeping doses sensible etc)

*

Androgen receptors mediate hypertrophy in cardiac myocytes. - PubMed - NCBI

*

I managed to keep all of that in range while blasting,

But what we absolutely have no control of and what ultimately leads to many unfortunate deaths from sudden cardiac deaths which are result of malignant arrhytmias stemming from the changes AAS make on the heart itself - that is, IMHO, the biggest issue.
I cannot control heart growth from steroids. I can only listen to my cardiologist tell me that my left ventricle is larger than normal. And that my ejection fraction is 54% due to the thickening of the heart wall because of steroids.

And a SARM which would selectively attach itself to the heart and prevent other things from attaching themselves would be the holy grail for us. Stupendeous amiunt of money could be made.

If i ever het filthy rich, i will invest into research to develop such a substance. Because this is a genuine part of the puzzle that is missing.

 

[Matthersby]

Many SARMS never made it to the human phase of testing due to side effects... we use them now to grow faster... Steroids are definitely going to be the safer option in most cases. Only a few do not have many side effects but they are the same ones that don't have much of an effect either like Osta...

People are just soothed into feeling safer with them because they were designed to be safer than steroids, but the ones that weren't brought even to human testing didn't make it because of being ineffective or considered a risk for some reason that pharma companies weren't willing to keep spending money on the research. OG Gear over SARMS all day for safety... IMHO

He covered it for me^

@cro, search threads for labs on Sarms. They vary wildly and typically look worse than just a simple test/Dbol cycle, which we know literally everything about what it will do, how it will do it, what to expect, and what to do to counter sides. And the results are superior.
WITH THE EXCEPTION of a few Sarms, and women using Sarms, the whole idea was to get steroid like effects with none of the side effects: suppression, lipid and liver strain. As soon as I’d heard people were experiencing less results with just as many side effects, sometimes more, I lost interest fast.
In theory, they should have been the best thing ever, especially for continual growth. But I think there’s been either way too many faked with designers or toxic **** added or maybe they just are all toxic and suppressive.
Anyways, the whole point was avoiding that to get steroid like results and I haven’t seen that in many cases. They definitely work, I would just sooooo much rather Var than Osta, Dbol than LGD. No contest.